FL FL - Danny Rolling, Gainesville Ripper, 8 known victims LA/FL 1989-90

[GlitchWizard]

Thank you South. I'm always listening and learning - but have yet to find the pigeonhole that I fit in. I do know that when I pray often, things in my life fall into place alot better than when I don't. Maybe that's a little of what you mean when you say "closer to heaven" or "closer to hell."

I hear people saying they want others to rot in hell for all eternity for committing some crime - but then I have to think - Eternity is a LONG time.

 

[southcitymom]

Thank you South. I'm always listening and learning - but have yet to find the pigeonhole that I fit in. I do know that when I pray often, things in my life fall into place alot better than when I don't. Maybe that's a little of what you mean when you say "closer to heaven" or "closer to hell."

I hear people saying they want others to rot in hell for all eternity for committing some crime - but then I have to think - Eternity is a LONG time.

Me too Glitch - I have a hard time pigeonholing myself and I love to learn about other people's spiritual experiences! I too have found that prayer works wonders, but I am often undisciplined...when my life gets hectic (ie...always!), prayer is the first thing to fall by the wayside in terms of my habits and routines!

 

[GlitchWizard]

Me too Glitch - I have a hard time pigeonholing myself and I love to learn about other people's spiritual experiences! I too have found that prayer works wonders, but I am often undisciplined...when my life gets hectic (ie...always!), prayer is the first thing to fall by the wayside in terms of my habits and routines!

The first thing to fall by the wayside for me is proper eating habits. That could be why my orange jumpsuit (inmate) halloween costume makes me look less like an inmate and more like the Great Pumpkin!

 

[southcitymom]

The first thing to fall by the wayside for me is proper eating habits. That could be why my orange jumpsuit (inmate) halloween costume makes me look less like an inmate and more like the Great Pumpkin!

I know - I'm a black cat and I look like I spent the prior 10 months lapping up gallons of cream...no one will mistake me for Halle Berry, I'm afraid!

 

[GlitchWizard]

I know - I'm a black cat and I look like I spent the prior 10 months lapping up gallons of cream...no one will mistake me for Halle Berry, I'm afraid!

I went to Biketoberfest in Daytona last weekend and camped out with a BUNCH of people in the bdsm and/or biker lifestyle. Many of us are.... not mistaken for Halle Berry, either... but the overwhelming feeling of being okay with it was always present. Apparently, all those people are of the frame of mind that bodies come in all shapes and sizes. This one happens to be mine.

(I want to go BACK!) ha ha ha

 

[Sherlockmom]

>I don't know that it changes the penalty, because I don't see the justice system as being about revenge, but about preventing crimes.



You are very incorrect I'm afraid. The justice system has nothing to do with preventing crime. It wasn't set up for that reason. Never has been.

 

[Details]

>I don't know that it changes the penalty, because I don't see the justice system as being about revenge, but about preventing crimes.



You are very incorrect I'm afraid. The justice system has nothing to do with preventing crime. It wasn't set up for that reason. Never has been.

I disagree. Sometimes it's to prevent crime by setting a punishment to deter, sometimes by locking the criminal up until hopefully he rehabilitates, or until he dies (old age, or something more direct).

For revenge - we can't do revenge. How do you get revenge for a rape victim? For someone tortured? We aren't inhuman enough to do what they do.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>I disagree. Sometimes it's to prevent crime by setting a punishment to deter, sometimes by locking the criminal up until hopefully he rehabilitates, or until he dies (old age, or something more direct). <<



You are welcome to disagree if you want but your opinions are not based on the history or facts about the American Justice system. You may want it to be about rehabilitation but it was not set up for that. It is about judging whether or not a crime was committed, presenting that case to a jury if warranted and meteing out punishment.

The punishment isn't about revenge. It is about protecting society from criminals. That is what jail is about. I don't believe our American education system is doing their job very well.

 

[southcitymom]

>I don't know that it changes the penalty, because I don't see the justice system as being about revenge, but about preventing crimes.



.....the justice system has nothing to do with preventing crime. It wasn't set up for that reason. Never has been.

I have to agree that our justice system is not about preventing crime. I mean, it's nice to think that it could do that, but it's not set up to do that and it certainly doesn't do that.

Our justice system in this country is about punishing people for breaking laws.

In fact, I think an argument could even be made that in some instances our justice system actually adds to the crime problem (ie. sending young offenders to prison where they learn to be really dangerous criminals...etc..).

 

[Sherlockmom]

>In fact, I think an argument could even be made that in some instances our justice system actually adds to the crime problem (ie. sending young offenders to prison where they learn to be really dangerous criminals...etc..).<



Or on the other hand giving them a slap on the wrist for lesser crimes time and time again while the crimes escalate in severity and someone gets hurt.

I don't subscribe to the theory that we should incarcerate for fear of creating "an even worse" criminal.

I do agree with you about the role of the judicial system however. If it was supposed to deter crime it isn't working that way. The prisons are getting more full. I believe that has more to do with our society than anything else but that is just my opinion. Most opponents of the death penalty will use that fact as part of their arguments is that it hasn't been shown to work as a deterrent. There may be reasons for that for instance, the appeal process that is allowed to go on and on for years and so many do not end up being executed anyway.

But I don't believe in using the death penalty as a deterrent. I subscribe strictly to the punishment role for it. I think that the appeal process goes on too long to the point where it is now ridiculous and costing the taxpayers more. This is not a reason to get rid of the DP but to reform the way these cases are handled. It's gotten out of hand. I find it offensive that the taxpayer is asked to support some of these scumbags for the rest of their lives.

 

[GlitchWizard]

Most opponents of the death penalty will use that fact as part of their arguments is that it hasn't been shown to work as a deterrent. There may be reasons for that for instance, the appeal process that is allowed to go on and on for years and so many do not end up being executed anyway.

I have a friend on Death Row who had an appeal that took FIVE YEARS to get an answer on. I had assumed that a prisoner would want it to drag out, but he says no. If he can be proven innocent, or at least be seen as not as culpable as the others - he could get in population rather than on the row. On the row, you are basically in solitary confinement, mostly, and it's extremely unpleasant. He said he wanted the appeals process to go faster (with hopefully good news) but that it isn't the prisoner's fault that the appeals take so long.

I mean really, does it take 5 years to read some paper work and decide yes or no? 99% of the answers are "no" anyway, on that particular appeal and (and with some appeals, it's 100%) Seems like they could just stamp "NO" on them all and speed up the process to the next appeal that might actually make a difference to someone.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>On the row, you are basically in solitary confinement, mostly, and it's extremely unpleasant.<


Well prison should be unpleasant. But I agree with you that these appeal processes take way too long. I blame this almost entirely on the attorneys who use the appeal process as a way to circumvent the DP and clog up the court system with frivolous lawsuits and cases.

I'm sure for the handful that may actually be innocent this is extremely torturous for them. I know that some do not think we should have an appeal process at all but I think that when death is the penalty you have to give these people another chance to prove their innocence or get due process just in case there were irregularities in their original trial. In WI the advisory DP referendum that will be on the ballot Tuesday calls for DNA evidence that points to the defendant before the DP can be attached.

For those that aren't innocent I couldn't care less how much they suffer. I just don't want to pay to feed and house them any longer than necessary. Let them have their one appeal within a reasonable amount of time and then be done with it.

 

[GlitchWizard]

In cases where there is only one bad guy, DNA is extremely useful. In other cases, though, it can (and is) used by the prosecution incorrectly. When more than one person is at the crime scene, and one bad guy decides to kill someone - the DNA of both people are present. The killer can (and does) say the other guy did it - and all of a sudden, you have "DNA proof" that is consistant with the killer's statement.

The killer walks. The other guy gets the sentence and is thought of, and treated, and killed as the "guilty" one.

It's definitely a system in need of reform, regardless of what side of the fence anyone stands on.

 

[Details]

But I don't believe in using the death penalty as a deterrent. I subscribe strictly to the punishment role for it. I think that the appeal process goes on too long to the point where it is now ridiculous and costing the taxpayers more. This is not a reason to get rid of the DP but to reform the way these cases are handled. It's gotten out of hand. I find it offensive that the taxpayer is asked to support some of these scumbags for the rest of their lives.

I see it as a deterrent - but only in the sense that once the criminal is killed, that particular criminal never commits another crime. Other than that - most criminals believe they will never be caught. Punishments act as a deterrent to people with some sense to know they would be caught (I wouldn't steal something, even if I really, really wanted to, because if I were caught, the punishment would be more than I wanted to take).

The appeals process needs to be streamlined, and they also need to recognize the difference in different types of cases. There are cases, many cases, maybe even most DP cases, where the verdict is not truely in doubt. 3 eyewitnesses, DNA, and a videotape, a good confession (one giving details only the killer would know), etc. These should not be going through the same process a case where there is lesser evidence, more questions, the possibility of innocence (however remote a possibility) remains. Some of those cases need more scrutiny and appeals than they now get, and many other cases need far less. Putting them all in the same bin, giving them all the same rules, is why truly vile and obvious killers get an extra decade of life, while the falsely convicted come far too close to execution.

 

[southcitymom]

>In fact, I think an argument could even be made that in some instances our justice system actually adds to the crime problem (ie. sending young offenders to prison where they learn to be really dangerous criminals...etc..).<



...... I find it offensive that the taxpayer is asked to support some of these scumbags for the rest of their lives.

I actually don't mind paying to keep dangerous people in prison for life. I consider it the "cost of doing business" to allow us to live in a safer environment. I'm happy to pay for that.

 

[cappuccina]

....than LWOP prison costs...

 

[Sherlockmom]

...FYI...death penalty cases are ALWAYS more expensive...
....than LWOP prison costs...

That's because they let them appeal for 20 years. If they gave them one quick appeal and then proceeded with the penalty phase it would save the taxpayers alot of money.

I do not consider it "the cost of doing business" to allow someone who has been sentenced to death for heinous crimes to tie up the court system and cost the taxpayers money for the next 20 years. They have already been judged and sentenced. There is a difference between someone who has been sentenced to 10 years for a burglary for example and someone who has murdered and been sentenced to death. The former the taxpayer expects to have to support while they are incarcerated and the later they do not.

The judgement was death. Not death after you've lived another 20 years or more and will most likely die of natural causes.

 

[GlitchWizard]

Straight from a guilty Death Row inmate's letter -

He said Death Row (in Alabama) is pampering compared to LWOP and if victim's families really wanted to punish someone, make them live LWOP for the rest of their lives with no hope of ever getting out. He said that to kill them is a release from their punishment.

He also said that perhaps the LWOP for killers should be separate from the other inmates - a little hell hole where they are actually punished for the rest of their lives, rather than sitting around in a cage until they are killed. I rather like that idea for the Cooey type people.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>He said Death Row (in Alabama) is pampering compared to LWOP and if victim's families really wanted to punish someone, make them live LWOP for the rest of their lives with no hope of ever getting out. He said that to kill them is a release from their punishment.<


Well he certainly has a vested interest in trying to convince people of that doesn't he?

To continue to allow these people to leech off of the taxpayers for years after their sentence has been handed down is unfair to the taxpayers. It also makes a mockery of the DP. Since we are also short on prison space we have to let other lesser criminals go free to make room for the more violent ones.

I just read this morning about a man who had killed a 5 year old boy, stabbed his mother, served a short time in prison and was just arrested for leaving a teenage girl's body in a ditch somewhere.

Finish them off and let God sort out their punishment which in the end will be much worse than anything we could give them.

 

[GlitchWizard]

Well he certainly has a vested interest in trying to convince people of that doesn't he?

Not really. He immediately admitted guilt, asked from the start that no one defend him and that he be executed immediately without wasting time on appeals. He then assisted the police in finding remains.

You assume he's lying to convince someone of something, but it's in ALL his court papers that he didn't want representation or appeals, and voluntarily admitted everything, even things he wasn't charged with (yet.)

Apparently, appeals are automatic. It's not always the prisoner that is trying to "leech" of anyone. Several commit suicide, several ask for the death penalty and to not have appeals.

I just learned that in the last year or so.