FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

[Kimberlyd125]

Why was he participating in shows if no one was supposed to be in the tank with him?
She was doing it out in the open, and I sincerely doubt Sea World didn't know that she was getting in the tank with him.

Because the shows he was involved in were not the type you see with the trainers in the tank. The shows he was involved in were hand signal shows from the deck.
Sea World did know she was not getting in the tank with him, she didn't get into the tank with him, she was pulled into the tank.

ETA: Because of the incident in which Tillikum was involved with two other whales in which his trainer was killed in 1991 trainers at Sea World do not do any water work with him, water work with him would be hard anyway because of his size.
Link: http://www.orca-spirit.co.uk/1210.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

 

[Kimberlyd125]

That's unfortunate.

As far as the comment you made that SeaWorld needs to quit capturing them...Tili is the the last captured whale in captivity. He was captured in 1983.

 

[Tizzle]

As far as the comment you made that SeaWorld needs to quit capturing them...Tili is the the last captured whale in captivity. He was captured in 1983.

From my post:

they need to stop capturing and breeding these animals for the entertainment of humans now.​

I'm glad they no longer capture them, but they also need to stop breeding them for life in captivity. They don't belong in concrete tanks. An Orca's entertainment value to humans is not nearly as important as the animal's overall health and happiness. Period.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Opinions differ. Period.

 

[Tizzle]

I'm aware of that, I don't think the purpose of this thread is to remind people of that. Unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

No I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk about the unfortunate death of a trainer at SeaWorld.

But, it's mostly been about tanks and breeding.

 

[jjenny]

Because the shows he was involved in were not the type you see with the trainers in the tank. The shows he was involved in were hand signal shows from the deck.
Sea World did know she was not getting in the tank with him, she didn't get into the tank with him, she was pulled into the tank.

ETA: Because of the incident in which Tillikum was involved with two other whales in which his trainer was killed in 1991 trainers at Sea World do not do any water work with him, water work with him would be hard anyway because of his size.
Link: http://www.orca-spirit.co.uk/1210.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

So she was in a "slide out" which to me appears to be a very shallow part of the tank.
Certainly it doesn't not appear that Sea world couldn't predict whale would be able to pull her in.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The trainer knew the risks involved with getting that close. IMO

Since Tili is so agressive, the trainer had to stay on the deck that is covered with just 4 feet of water. Her hair was long, it got too close, the whale pulled her in.
Maybe her hair should have been put up, IDK but SeaWorld has already announced they are looking into it.

IMO it was a error in judgement by the trainer that cost her her life. I believe it was an accident the trainer made and the whale acted on it. As he was known to do.

Edited to correct the few inches statement to 4 feet.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.wftv.com/news/22680809/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The former head trainer at SeaWorld spoke out Friday and said mistakes by trainer Dawn Brancheau led to her death.

“It looks like to me she made a mistake,” Thad Lacinik told WFTV.


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[Kimberlyd125]

Also from the above link:

Tilikum will remain at the park, as far away from humans as his care will allow.

“Releasing any of these killer whales to the wild would be the wrong decision. We’ve already tried it once, Free Willy and he died a terrible death,” Lacinik said.

Lacinik says Tilikum is not likely to return to the whale shows and SeaWorld will have to take him out of isolation soon. He also says the rumors about Tilikum being a bad whale are simply not true.

 

[jjenny]

To me, blaiming it on her ponytail seems like some weird excuse. She was in the shallow part of the pool (the slide-out) playing with him. I don't see why whale couldn't grab her arm, or leg, and drag her in just the same.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/26/eveningnews/main6248241.shtml

 

[Kimberlyd125]

jjenny: The guy in the link I posted above knows a lot about whales.

Snipped: Lacinik has taught 200 whale trainers and 40 different whales. He says the attack was Dawn’s fault.

 

[jjenny]

jjenny: The guy in the link I posted above know a lot about whales.

Snipped: Lacinik has taught 200 whale trainers and 40 different whales. He says the attack was Dawn’s fault.

And?
It's still his opinion only, I hope you aren't suggesting no one is allowed to have a different one.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I never suggested you couldn't have your opinion. Just pointing out the guys vast amount of experience with orcas.

I think his is a pretty educated opinion since he has worked with and studied the behaviors of whales for many years.

He said she was one of the best trainers he has ever seen and she made a mistake.

 

[jjenny]

I never suggested you couldn't have your opinion. Just pointing out the guys vast amount of experience with orcas.

I think his is a pretty educated opinion since he has worked with and studied the behaviors of whales for many years.

He said she was one of the best trainers he has ever seen and she made a mistake.

Sea World is being probed by two federal agencies for this.
Considering this expert used to work for Sea World, maybe he isn't the most objective person to accept his opinion without questions?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/26/national/main6247462.shtml

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Maybe not, but he is someone I would ask if I had a question as to why an orca acted a certain way.

 

[jon_burrows]

BBM means bolded by me.

According to the Humane Society:

The maximum estimated life span for male orcas in the wild is 50–60 years. The maximum estimated life span for female orcas in the wild is 70–80 years. In captivity, orcas often die before they reach 20 years of age—almost no males achieve 30, and only a few females have lived past 30.

On average, a male in the wild can expect a life span of 30 years, while a female can expect a life span of 50 years.

[FONT=&quot] There are only a select handful of wild orcas that are known to have lived past 40. I think the key word here is "maximum estimated" lifespan because it confuses people. It is like saying the maximum estimated lifespan of an average human is 120 years. Yes it can happen, but rarely does.[/FONT]

We have only been keeping wild orcas in captivity for 45 years....many of which were spent learning how to best care for them. The vast knowledge attained during that time may allow some of the present captive orcas to live much longer than they have previously. JMO

I gave the maximum lifespan as well as the average, how can that be confusing? I think everyone here can understand the difference between maximum & average. The bottom line is orcas in captivity do not live nearly as long as wild ones. If you google 'captive orcas lifespan' you'll find page after page that state that exact statistic. On average a female in the wild lives 50 years. 50 years! Are you advocating keeping them captive to experiment more?

Let's compare the statistics to orcas in captivity who have people watching over their health constantly (they are the main attraction and therefore the biggest money maker...wouldn't want to lose one or have one out of commission so he/she can't perform). Could it be that they live in a concrete tank way too small for them in chemically treated water that will never be the same as the ocean? Maybe because they swim around in their own urine? Maybe they are under constant stress every minute of their lives circling that concrete prison until they become deformed. Maybe because they have to perform stupid tricks for people to get the privilege of eating frozen fish every day, several times a day. Maybe the noise and the music or their sonar bouncing off the walls is driving them insane. Maybe because they can't swim normally in a straight line or reach anywhere near their maximum speed because they'll run into a wall. They can't dive deep and it's not natural for them to float on top of the water most of their lives. Maybe because they can't bond naturally with a pod. Someone posted an article earlier regarding a pod of whales that stayed with their dying pod member, risking their own lives in shallow water for three days until the pod member died. Some of the captive whales are shipped all over the place (on loan to Canada, other SeaWorld locations, etc). Imagine the stress of being hoisted on a hammock, taken by truck to the airport, placed on a plane, then dumped in a new location. The list could go on. There is a reason their life is cut short.

 

[jon_burrows]

Oh for crying out loud. He also had marks on him consistent with the whale biting him. If the whale wouldn't let him get out of the pool then he would eventually die for hypothermia or drowning, would he not?

I posted two videos of captive whale attacks earlier. The whale tried to prevent them both from getting out of the pool.

I also read that he had trauma to his body.

 

[Tizzle]

No I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk about the unfortunate death of a trainer at SeaWorld.

But, it's mostly been about tanks and breeding.

You are correct in your assessment of the purpose of this thread. However, the circumstances surrounding her death, which include an Orca that lives in a tiny concrete tank and is used for breeding calves into captivity, are also worthy of the discussion.

 

[jon_burrows]

No I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk about the unfortunate death of a trainer at SeaWorld.

But, it's mostly been about tanks and breeding.

...maybe that's the reason for the attack. This was not the first attack that resulted in death or near death for that matter. I wonder how many law suits will be filed by traumatized audience members, particularly parents of children. They don't have any warning signs posted that they may witness an attack or killing but SeaWorld knew Tilly had a history of violence. In fact, it is my understanding that one of the terms of his sale to SeaWorld was that he not be placed in shows.

IMO