FL - Dawn Brancheau, Female Trainer Killed at Shamu Stadium

[Herding Cats]

If I've understood things correctly, CNN will be re-airing Blackfish tonight.

I am of two minds regarding keeping Orca in captivity. While I am very thankful that capturing Orca has been prohibited, and that the only "new" Orca are the ones bred in captivity, I also look at what happened to Keiko, who was "released" and died a year later.

What do we do with the Orca who have, for most if not all of their lives, lived in marine parks, with regular medical care, without any 'real' knowledge about the ocean environment, and without anyone to teach them what to do and how to survive there? Do we release them, and just hope for the best? Do we construct some sort of uber-large pen for them, and hope they teach themselves? What do we do?

And in further reading of what happened to Alexis Martinez, there were some contributing issues that also occurred in Brancheau's death. While I am NOT blaming anyone - least of all the whales - I think that some serious re-evaluation of how these animals are interacted with should be done...and some changes made in how the animals are trained and worked with on a daily basis.

I do not frequent zoos, won't go to the circus, and very infrequently have I gone to places like Sea World. However, I do believe that places like Sea World and some zoos are instrumental in bringing awareness and knowledge about animals most of us will never encounter in the wild; increasing conservation efforts, rescue efforts, and education/scientific knowledge will benefit the animals in the wild and those of us who admire - or, in my case, are in awe of - these incredible animals that share this earth with us.

I do stress "share"...not over us, not under us, but with us...here together.

I don't have the answers...but I see both sides. And I wish there was something that could be done for the sake of these incredible Orca...but I don't know what.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Nova]

Thanks to the few on here that believe that keeping an animal in captivity is immoral and unethical. Please watch Blackfish on CNN. Tilly should be allowed to live in an ocean barricade for the remaining years. Lives are not ours for the taking. Thanks Jon, Gypsy, Portabella and a few others for being compassionate. SMH...

I don't agree with regards to ALL animals. Tigers and pandas are very nearly extinct in the wild. Lions and rhinos may soon follow them.

The California condor went extinct in the wild and was re-introduced using birds from zoos.

So zoos have their place, if the exhibit spaces are properly designed.

But orcas travel thousands of miles per year. No aquarium is big enough (though I agree that older orcas should be retired to ocean pens).

 

[Nova]

If I've understood things correctly, CNN will be re-airing Blackfish tonight.

I am of two minds regarding keeping Orca in captivity. While I am very thankful that capturing Orca has been prohibited, and that the only "new" Orca are the ones bred in captivity, I also look at what happened to Keiko, who was "released" and died a year later.

What do we do with the Orca who have, for most if not all of their lives, lived in marine parks, with regular medical care, without any 'real' knowledge about the ocean environment, and without anyone to teach them what to do and how to survive there? Do we release them, and just hope for the best? Do we construct some sort of uber-large pen for them, and hope they teach themselves? What do we do?

And in further reading of what happened to Alexis Martinez, there were some contributing issues that also occurred in Brancheau's death. While I am NOT blaming anyone - least of all the whales - I think that some serious re-evaluation of how these animals are interacted with should be done...and some changes made in how the animals are trained and worked with on a daily basis.

I do not frequent zoos, won't go to the circus, and very infrequently have I gone to places like Sea World. However, I do believe that places like Sea World and some zoos are instrumental in bringing awareness and knowledge about animals most of us will never encounter in the wild; increasing conservation efforts, rescue efforts, and education/scientific knowledge will benefit the animals in the wild and those of us who admire - or, in my case, are in awe of - these incredible animals that share this earth with us.

I do stress "share"...not over us, not under us, but with us...here together.

I don't have the answers...but I see both sides. And I wish there was something that could be done for the sake of these incredible Orca...but I don't know what.

Best-
Herding Cats

Jack Hanna was on CNN after the first showing of BLACKFISH making the same point about teaching people to empathize with animals.

But what he did NOT say is that orcas filmed in the wild are far more fascinating than captive animals forced to circumnavigate a tank while splashing the crowd. We no longer need to keep such animals in captivity so that human beings can learn about them.

And if anything, Sea World (like many zoos) gives a very distorted view of top predators: they are not "cute and cuddly". That's an image promoted just to sell stuffed animals.

 

[BlueberryBird]

Tilikum is basically a serial killer. He had killed or have been involved in the killings of 3 people.
I guess it's possible he has gone psychotic due to being in captivity. But my guess is he simply hates people (because they are keeping him in captivity) and he isn't insane.

It is pretty unfair to slap a human label on an animal that we are forcing to exist in unnatural circumstances. Orcas are predators; that's what they do.

I'm glad this issue is continuing to get more awareness. People who scoffed at me for being "that vegan" just because I wouldn't go to aquarium shows years ago are now reposting g this on their Facebook pages, seemingly horrified.

I've always thought that Great Whites should count their lucky stars that they can't survive in captivity.

 

[Sheromom]

Jack Hanna was on CNN after the first showing of BLACKFISH making the same point about teaching people to empathize with animals.

But what he did NOT say is that orcas filmed in the wild are far more fascinating than captive animals forced to circumnavigate a tank while splashing the crowd. We no longer need to keep such animals in captivity so that human beings can learn about them.

And if anything, Sea World (like many zoos) gives a very distorted view of top predators: they are not "cute and cuddly". That's an image promoted just to sell stuffed animals.

So very true. I live on an island surrounded by dancing, splashing orcas. Just come see me in the summer. We have guaranteed whale sighting boats. And, in spite of it all, these are pretty tame and gentle animals. Just leave them right here; in their own ocean. No reason for a performance; they do just fine on their own. This really makes me mad; they are SO intelligent. They even come right up and splash the boat riders but NEVER try to over turn the boat. You want to see an Orca? Head my way; no NO reason to go to Florida!

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Because something was once accepted in our society does not mean it must remain acceptable. Because someone is making money from something that is unacceptable is no reason for our society to continue to tolerate it.

 

[Patriciao]

Orcas live in family pods in the wild. Tilly was most likely attacked by the females because he was not originally part of their pod and from what I read online about Orcas family pods they will have their own communication language unique to their family. It is possible Tilly could not communicate with the others because he was not part of their pod. Circuses in the US no longer have elephants. I think Sea World should no longer have Orcas and other large mammals. At least many zoos provide the animals natural habitat environments. Sea World's small pools and often inhuman treatment of the Orcas (alone in the dark for long periods) is not to be condoned. I will never go to SW again!

 

[jon_burrows]

Tilikum is basically a serial killer. He had killed or have been involved in the killings of 3 people.
I guess it's possible he has gone psychotic due to being in captivity. But my guess is he simply hates people (because they are keeping him in captivity) and he isn't insane.

Aggression in captive orcas is common. Official profiles of select captive killer whales (including Tilikum) as published by SeaWorld. These documents contain a ton of information regarding the tendencies of the animals.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/75320654/...orca-Profiles-including-aggressive-tendencies

 

[jon_burrows]

CNN will rebroadcast Blackfish on Saturday, Nov 2, at 9 pm est.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/opinion/blackfish-captive-orcas-solutions/

 

[daisy.faithfull]

CNN will rebroadcast Blackfish on Saturday, Nov 2, at 9 pm est.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/opinion/blackfish-captive-orcas-solutions/

Thank you! I taped it but only got the first hour and I thought it was the last showing.

 

[Ina Cognito]

Circuses in the US no longer have elephants.

New here, Hi

Many circuses in the US still have elephants I wish they didn't..... elephants belong in the wild with their family units.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Is there a link to watch the actual movie? I am just finding clips and trailers.

 

[QueenD]

CNN will rebroadcast Blackfish on Saturday, Nov 2, at 9 pm est.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/opinion/blackfish-captive-orcas-solutions/

Thanks just set my recorder.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I don't agree with regards to ALL animals. Tigers and pandas are very nearly extinct in the wild. Lions and rhinos may soon follow them.

The California condor went extinct in the wild and was re-introduced using birds from zoos.

So zoos have their place, if the exhibit spaces are properly designed.

But orcas travel thousands of miles per year. No aquarium is big enough (though I agree that older orcas should be retired to ocean pens).

Kinda OT, but when I was a kid, (1970's) the American Bald Eagle, due to DDT weakening their egg shells, were only found in Alaska and Florida. In 2007 they were taken off of the endangered list. This was achieved through captive breeding. Now they are in all 49 contiguous states.

So, yeah, sometimes captivity is a good thing. But we have to always remember that wild animals are, in fact, wild animals. :twocents:

 

[LucyVino]

This is an amazing documentary I have now watched it twice and shed tears both times. Shame on Seaworld and other marine parks like it.

Blackfish (documentary about orcas in captivity) will air tomorrow night at 9:00 EST on CNN. JVM is also doing a special tomorrow night.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/showb...entary-exclusive-clip/index.html?SR=blackfish

Little known fact...a SeaWorld killer whale on loan to Loro Parque killed trainer Alexis Martinez two months before Dawn was killed. The orcas are living in horrid conditions. Warning-the video in the link below of Keto getting an endoscopy (due to ingesting paint from his concrete box) is heartbreaking.

http://timzimmermann.com/2011/07/18/the-tragedy-of-loro-parque/
https://nl-nl.facebook.com/visinzicht/posts/578889555502224

IMO

 

[Nova]

Kinda OT, but when I was a kid, (1970's) the American Bald Eagle, due to DDT weakening their egg shells, were only found in Alaska and Florida. In 2007 they were taken off of the endangered list. This was achieved through captive breeding. Now they are in all 49 contiguous states.

So, yeah, sometimes captivity is a good thing. But we have to always remember that wild animals are, in fact, wild animals. :twocents:

The same was true of the alligator when I was a kid and now there seems to be a gator in every Florida swimming pool. LOL.

Speaking of reptiles, I'm not sure a gator cares whether it's in a pond in a zoo or a pond in the wild, except that in the zoo it is protected (presumably) from overcrowding and larger gators.

(BTW, there are only 48 contiguous states. I think you meant the 49 "mainland" states, i.e., including Alaska, but excluding Hawaii.)

 

[jon_burrows]

What it's like for captive orcas when they aren't performing:

[video=youtube;4myLJ4k7tag]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4myLJ4k7tag[/video]

On a happier note, Dr. Visser's team helping a stranded orca while the orca's mother and brother wait patiently:

Rescuing Putita the Orca (with Dr Visser interview) - YouTube

 

[jon_burrows]

This is an amazing documentary I have now watched it twice and shed tears both times. Shame on Seaworld and other marine parks like it.

ITA

Unfortunately there is only so much they can fit into an hour long documentary. There is much more that SeaWorld does not want the world to know. There is a book called 'Death at SeaWorld: Shamu and the Dark Side of Killer Whales in Captivity' that gives even more disturbing facts about captive orcas. I borrowed it from my local library - excellent book.

 

[jon_burrows]

What has become of Tilikum:

[video=youtube;4dHLzWuVvl0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dHLzWuVvl0[/video]

 

[LucyVino]

Thanks I am going to look that up I have been doing a lot of Googling on the issue it's sickening I really hope something good comes out of this documentary being shown it sounds like Sea World is experiencing major backlash.

ITA

Unfortunately there is only so much they can fit into an hour long documentary. There is much more that SeaWorld does not want the world to know. There is a book called 'Death at SeaWorld: Shamu and the Dark Side of Killer Whales in Captivity' that gives even more disturbing facts about captive orcas. I borrowed it from my local library - excellent book.