GUILTY FL - Dima Tower, 22, charged for murdering his 2 adoptive parents, North Port, 9 Sept 2023

[Dotta]

I have a question.

I understand that DT has been living in the US for 8 years
but, still, English is a foreign language for him.

I wonder if he should have been provided with an interpreter during trial?

He seemed to try to find adequate words during his testimony.

I'm just curious

JMO

 

[Chimera]

"An emotional, raw, and unforgettable impact statement."

A video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989396038126649826

The pain....
Oh my goodness.
I feel immensely grateful to not have had anyone taken from my life in such a manner !
And, I can't blame him for speaking his mind about his beloved son and daughter in law.
Hoping for healing for all of them.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder if he should have been provided with an interpreter during trial?

I think that is a good question and wonder if his defense even considered use of a professional translator during the trial. It's possible he did not want to have one and being an adult could make that choice, but was it even addressed?

 

[Megnut]

(Do we know how his mother in Ukraine died?)

 

[turaj]

Perhaps they expected to receive a 14-year-old-boy behaving like a son. But life in an orphanage is survival. Absolutely no prays before meals (it is not an Orthodox tradition anyhow), but you grab the meal as fast as possible because otherwise you may not get any... I think it was misunderstanding on both sides. At school, you show the kids that you are a macho, that you are not to be messed up with. You could see bits of this behavior in court - he hinted that some parents should not be the parents, but could not explain why and got flooded with emotions. I think that the Towers expected a son, who’d behave like a son, and he expected to get “a better place for survival”. I can imagine how badly any consequences would go down with him. He would’ve seen them not as consequences but as “downgrading” him.

Plus, he could have FAS which is a very peculiar behavioral problem. Sometimes even kids who are adopted young but suffer from it are problematic, behavior-wise. I am not sure he has it, but possible.

Plus, the worst age for any transition is adolescence. I would also want to know if his orphanage was in the city or outside.

I think that any transitioning for a teenager is very hard to start with. He definitely needed to be treated psychiatrically, here is where the police did drop the ball, because it is obvious he is not in control of what is going on in his head.

But the way I interpreted it, I didn’t think he disliked the US. He disliked not fitting in. He can’t admit that he failed at school. It was hard to learn another language at fourteen no doubt; there could have been an issue there. I can imagine that kids at school did not give him a break because he was an adoptee from another country. With kids, you either fit in or you don’t, and he probably didn’t. But I don’t think he planned or wanted to move back to Ukraine, and not only because of the war.

i so agree with your thoughts. FAS was common in adoptions from Russia or Ukraine. That home has a history of parents calling police but dropping charges. 14 is an awful age for adoption...just awful.

 

[turaj]

@turaj

Exactly!

Even the most abhorrent statements by people like the killers of Maddie Soto and Ana Abulaban were said in court. Not completely off by the judge and dismissed and disregarded.

@Charlot123

We know nothing about how Dima did academically.... there was mention by the state accusing him that he quit high school because he was about to be expelled but no mention if it was due to academics of behavior. (At least in the Sciences and Maths, in my experience with students, children who arrive from overseas to the USA are far more advanced academically than American High School students.) No story about how he didn't fit in or how he felt isolated or anything was shared in this case.

absolutely no info that I heard about. what provisions were made f or him upon his arrival here. Language etc. Was this "christian couple" ready for the challenge. It takes way more than an open heart. The transition at age 14 from Ukraine to an affluent area of Florida? Was there any diverity

I am trying to pull something from newspapers in Russian - in this case, Brighton Beach News.

In 2018, an attempt was made to commit Dima to a psychiatric hospital by the "Baker Act", but it failed. (Why?)

It seems that the biggest problem was always uncontrollable rage. Dima was expelled from school in 10th grade for constant fights. His biological mother died (I don't know at what age). His father was an alcoholic and left Dima in an orphanage.

My feeling is that it is mostly "nature" but, all neurological tests (seizures?), psychiatric tests and perhaps, genetic studies need to be done. His height is 154 cm.

Parents were supportive. Bought him a car, did their best.

parents had to call. law enforcement I think a few times...Baker Act could have been used but it failed because Parents dropped the charges. I would like to know how much help both sides got? I think not that much. Buying him a car is not "doing their b est" but they thought it would help.

 

[turaj]

(Do we know how his mother in Ukraine died?)

as I understand it she died when he was younger and that is how he got placed in orphanage.

 

[turaj]

I think that is a good question and wonder if his defense even considered use of a professional translator during the trial. It's possible he did not want to have one and being an adult could make that choice, but was it even addressed?

pretty sure his English was good after 10 years in this country and would have been evaluated before trial. If not and he was not understanding things the whole trial would have been a waste. Even his do nothing counsel would have addressed this issue.

 

[Megnut]

as I understand it she died when he was younger and that is how he got placed in orphanage.

(Can't help but to wonder how far back his violent temper goes. Maybe it started with the loss of his mother but what if it started before?)

I'd like confirmation his mom died of natural causes.

(jmo)

 

[turaj]

I am still mystified that he did not have a real defense. In pretrial motions was it ruled that no discussion of his life leading up to these murders was allowed? What about testing psychological and other? Was anything presented. WAS FAS brought up. I feel I missed a lot but only thing I saw from defense was him on the stand and not being helped by his attorney at all.

 

[tara83]

"An emotional, raw, and unforgettable impact statement."

A video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989396038126649826

So sad these poor parents seemed to love him and this is what they got in return.

 

[whitelilac]

I am still mystified that he did not have a real defense. In pretrial motions was it ruled that no discussion of his life leading up to these murders was allowed? What about testing psychological and other? Was anything presented. WAS FAS brought up. I feel I missed a lot but only thing I saw from defense was him on the stand and not being helped by his attorney at all.

Speaking of his attorney, I wonder if Dima had the opportunity to confide everything to him, to explain what he meant by "the truth" etc. Or was Dima completely closed off and hostile even with his attorney. How was their relationship during preparing for the trial. During the trial I got the impression the attorney just wanted it over with, that he didn't support Dima in any way.

I understand he was against Dima speaking on the stand because he knew he would not look good at all, which was the case.
Obviously Dima did not take that advice.

Did Dima refuse a psychological assessment? Was it offered?

 

[Dotta]

"From Tower’s testimony,
it appeared he had a hard time adjusting to life in the U.S.
- he didn’t know English when he first arrived,
- he dropped out of North Port High School by the 10th grade,
- and he admitted to not getting along with his adoptive father.

As Tower answered Gilman's questions about his history of moving in-and-out of the Towers’ home prior to the night of the stabbings,
he began to cry, hunching over and covering his face with a tissue."

[ Hmmm...
Moving in-and-out of adoptive parents' house??

So...
No education - expelled from school
Did he have a job?
Where did he live? ]

"Tower told jurors
that Jennifer and Robbie Tower weren’t his real parents
and that they didn’t know how to raise someone who had come from a harsh environment like he had.

He also admitted
that he had made their life a 'living hell'.

Tower said
Jennifer had told him that her husband hadn’t wanted to adopt at all,
then changing his mind to wanting to adopt a daughter
before ultimately agreeing to adopt a son."

Dima Tower says he was ‘temporarily insane’ when he killed his parents in Sarasota County

Dima Tower says he was “temporarily insane” when he stabbed his Sarasota County parents more than 140 times.

eu.heraldtribune.com

 

[turaj]

"From Tower’s testimony,
it appeared he had a hard time adjusting to life in the U.S.
- he didn’t know English when he first arrived,
- he dropped out of North Port High School by the 10th grade,
- and he admitted to not getting along with his adoptive father.

As Tower answered Gilman's questions about his history of moving in-and-out of the Towers’ home prior to the night of the stabbings,
he began to cry, hunching over and covering his face with a tissue."

[ Hmmm...
Moving in-and-out of adoptive parents' house??

So...
No education - expelled from school
Did he have a job?
Where did he live? ]

"Tower told jurors
that Jennifer and Robbie Tower weren’t his real parents
and that they didn’t know how to raise someone who had come from a harsh environment like he had.

He also admitted
that he had made their life a 'living hell'.

Tower said
Jennifer had told him that her husband hadn’t wanted to adopt at all,
then changing his mind to wanting to adopt a daughter
before ultimately agreeing to adopt a son."

View attachment 625401

Dima Tower says he was ‘temporarily insane’ when he killed his parents in Sarasota County

Dima Tower says he was “temporarily insane” when he stabbed his Sarasota County parents more than 140 times.

eu.heraldtribune.com

I wonder why he did not spare the mother? Sounds like relationship with father was the more difficult one. He sure mentioned a few times about them not knowing how to parent him....I would be interested in hearing more about that. Is there any component of mental health provided for in his sentence? Since I don't know what was ruled out in advance of trial I can't say but his counsel sure seemed ineffective and again I have mentioned before he should have been allowed to speak prior to sentencing.

 

[tara83]

I wonder why he did not spare the mother? Sounds like relationship with father was the more difficult one. He sure mentioned a few times about them not knowing how to parent him....I would be interested in hearing more about that. Is there any component of mental health provided for in his sentence? Since I don't know what was ruled out in advance of trial I can't say but his counsel sure seemed ineffective and again I have mentioned before he should have been allowed to speak prior to sentencing.

If he didn't like how they parented him he might have thought about not living with them and supporting himself with a job as he's 22 and not a helpless child.

 

[Cryptic]

Defense did their minimum level of homework on this. This is a disturbed person who can't even function in a courtroom....

I fully agree.

I strongly feel that the full extent of of his personality and his inability to control it would have been apparent.

Putting defendants on the stand is said to be very risky. I can see taking that risk with a Jodi Arias type defendant:

Ok, might not have a Hallmark Christmas show personality. But… can likely dial herself down. Then factor in that she is an attractive female’ for male jurors and also has a sexual degradation spin to her defense for women jurors.

But…. As you noted, DT is a complete disaster on the stand. There must have been prior indications. Maybe the “know it all” over rode his attorney?

 

[Charlot123]

pretty sure his English was good after 10 years in this country and would have been evaluated before trial. If not and he was not understanding things the whole trial would have been a waste. Even his do nothing counsel would have addressed this issue.

There is expressive language and receptive language and they can be at variance

His receptive language might be poor, but it is missed because he can “express himself”

BTW, the problem might exist in any language; I suspect that his language comprehension is poor in any language. I also think that if the judge gave him the chance to speak, it would be very obvious.

Here: I think that because he is such a risk to the society, he must be kept in prison. It is not only the issue of punishment but also, how do we protect ourselves from him?

However, since we don’t know what causes such unrestrained anger and what could help, all possible tests need to be done.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Tower said
Jennifer had told him that her husband hadn’t wanted to adopt at all,
then changing his mind to wanting to adopt a daughter
before ultimately agreeing to adopt a son."

IF this is true, RT did not want to adopt, then was okay with the idea of adopting a daughter, then finally agreed to a son, wouldn't that have doomed the adoption from the start? Why adopt if both parents aren't 100% sure? The child will be able to tell. I hope it's not true. JMO.

 

[Megnut]

IF this is true, RT did not want to adopt, then was okay with the idea of adopting a daughter, then finally agreed to a son, wouldn't that have doomed the adoption from the start? Why adopt if both parents aren't 100% sure? The child will be able to tell. I hope it's not true. JMO.

We lack context.

I think we can all agree it could be impossibly difficult to raise a child at 14 who had lived whatever past Dima lived... fuessing normal parenting doesn't always work.

I'm thinking of children who carry forward food hoarding, even though their new life provides trustworthy access to abundant food.

If Dima and Robbie butted heads (would hardly be surprising), perhaps Jennifer tried to intervene, redirect, etc. A little bit of good cop. Telling him his adoptive father didn't want a boy (and by extension, this boy) would hardly foster closeness, but maybe that's not HOW it was presented. Maybe she told him how Robbie was on board to adopt a girl, didn't want a boy, but agreed to adopt this boy to show just how great his commitment was, in adopting a son. That would be a very complex concept.

I don't know what capacity Dima has to emote, understand enotions -- his or others' -- but it's not hard to imagine he came into this adoption telling himself he wasn't wanted -- by anyone -- and then proceeded to prove it, by being impossible to love.

His Defense made a strategic decision not to have him evaluated.

At first blush, that seems short-sighted. His past and his mental health may have struck a sympathetic chord with a juror -- so maybe his attorney felt that an eval would actually do the opposite, remove all sympathy. Perhaps there's a lot of not-attractive diagnoses in his file and both sides stipulated to leaving it there. A door the Defense didn't want to open and the State didn't need open.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I wonder
if his rage towards adoptive parents
was, in fact, directed at bio parents?

Isn't it called "Transference" in psychology?

Transference
is the unconscious redirection of feelings and emotions from a past relationship
(like a parent or caregiver)
onto a new person.

And, in this tragic case,
onto the adoptive parents.



Isn't this phenomenon seen in acts of some serial killers too?
When each new victim
is the same one from the killer's past.
Murdered again and again.



Well,
this case is for psychiatrists to ponder upon.

JMO