FL - Dr Teresa Sievers, 46, murdered in home, Bonita Springs, June 2015 *ARRESTS* #9

[debbiegarcia36]

NIN I think Mark was seen at JR's that time he went to Missouri maybe for CWW's wedding.

Do you think he drove or took a plane?

 

[Momoffourboys]

Why would anyone who murdered for insurance money open up accounts immediately??? (Hypothetically speaking)

...maybe so noone thinks they murdered or plotted a murder for insurance money.

Does that make sense?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

What kind of new Mercedes? Who reported that? Thanks.

-Nin

Wasn't there a Mercedes in their garage pzrked. Ext to the ar that LE took away?

I am on the fence on MS. With one leg dangling on the guilty side. I agree that for almost all the connections I see leaning to guilt there can also be reasonable explanations pointing to innocence. There are two reasons I lean to guilt. One is the sherriff saying MS is in the envelope of suspicion. IMO if there is no reason for LE to still have him in the envelope of suspicion, then MS would have himself a case for defamation. I don't feel the sherriff would open himself to that. The other reason I have is the totality of the questionable things concerning MS coming out through the media. Individually each item can be explained away, but to me guilt or innocence needs to be based on the totality of what we know. Again, I am not saying g MS is guilty, but I do suspect that he might be.

 

[Lilibet]

IMO if this case is as big as I think it is, MS would be in PC if he was thought to be not involved.

I'm not sure what it takes to put someone in protective custody, but you could be right. Just googling a little, I see it's not done without a big reason. It could be that LE doesn't have enough info yet to clear him of involvement or prove he's involved. I suppose he could refuse protective custody. I always hesitate to decide someone is involved in a crime based on what LE does or doesn't do. They play their cards so close to the chest IMO.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I didn't ask for a possible motive. I asked for evidence...

We don't have evidence, you know that. We have been trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. ..one piece at a time. The puzzle isn't finished yet but the picture is a little clearer than it was two weeks ago.

Money talks. Lots of money talks a lot.

-Nin

Is that confirmed?
Sure, it would be a possible motive. But it's not evidence. Does every murder victim with a life ins policy end up murdered by their spouse? Maybe CWW knew about the policy and figured his life long buddy would share it with him on e the dust settled?
My point is that there are many possible scenarios and explanations for all of these little things that people think point toward guilt.

I would say I am on the fence as well. The biggest reason why I haven't excluded MS of some involvement is simply because the Sherriff hasn't announced it. The reason he hasn't announced it can be one of three scenarios:
1) Sherriff has evidence MS is involved
2) Sherriff isn't saying anything publicly because it is a part of his investigative strategy to make others think MS is a suspect
3) Sherriff still has no idea who is behind (the mastermind) of the murder

Until I see some sort of EVIDENCE that points towards MS, I will continue to offer him and his daughters my love and sympathy. I will not condemn a man that could very well be going through a bigger hell than many of us will ever know. JMO

 

[LightShineOn]

Perhaps because the Sheriff is going after everyone who is involved in let's say, a drug running operation that perhaps CWW was also involved in. Sheriff may have uncovered a bigger web that he's trying to sweep down. I really don't see how the Sheriff is treating MS any different than anyone else in this. I've heard Scott say repeatedly that everyone remains under suspicion and no one has been cleared. <modsnip>

I apologize beach~I definitely did not intend to discuss moderation decisions and will be more aware in the future. Thank you.

 

[LightShineOn]

After reading the posts from verified/non-verified members, along with probability, IMO potential reasons for MS involvement in TS's murder = "loving" her too much.

"40% of murdered women are murdered by their husband/spouse……...Nearly all male murderers claim that (a) they committed the murder out of love, and (b) it was a result of loving too much……….The man perceives the woman to be his whole world so that he feels that any separation from her entails a loss of his own identity……...The murderers’ love involves the fusion model and in most instances, it is the murderers who are the weaker partners. It is often the case that the wife was independent, stable, and strong, and the man was weak and lacked the control that made her useful to him. She was his source of strength. She gave him a feeling of self-worth"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

That is interesting information and a good post!

 

[debbiegarcia36]

After reading the posts from verified/non-verified members, along with probability, IMO potential reasons for MS involvement in TS's murder = "loving" her too much.

"40% of murdered women are murdered by their husband/spouse……...Nearly all male murderers claim that (a) they committed the murder out of love, and (b) it was a result of loving too much……….The man perceives the woman to be his whole world so that he feels that any separation from her entails a loss of his own identity……...The murderers’ love involves the fusion model and in most instances, it is the murderers who are the weaker partners. It is often the case that the wife was independent, stable, and strong, and the man was weak and lacked the control that made her useful to him. She was his source of strength. She gave him a feeling of self-worth"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

Would you really call that love?

Somewhere there's a felony theyll get him on and when you participate in a felony and someone loses their life .. It's all in the same murder charge no matter who gave the deadly blow..

Great first post! Welcome to WS! I have some of the same suspicions and concerns.

[emoji14]arty:

Very interesting ... thanks for sharing that ... :thinking:

 

[al66pine]

IMO if MS went to MO to attend his friends wedding (or for any other reason) why would he drive as opposed to fly? The distance is just too great. So if the neighbor saw a car with FL plates I would really be curious as to why he drove (if that really was him spotted at JR's place)--which I sorta doubt

I also wondered about travel for ^MS, leading me to think about CWW & JR travel.

Regardless of where trip starts, there's travel time & out of pocket costs to balance.
And possibly incriminating digital footprint trails to consider.

Drive?
Re CWW & JR, from Mo ---> FL & back in car, IIUC the timeframe, it would have been a quick turn around, so no more than _?_ hours spent in Bonita Springs area.
Presumably they w/h/had advantage of being able to switch off driving duties.
And no vehicle rental exp, once in FL.
And travel flexibility in the area (no depending on taxis, Uber, etc)
Re total car trip expenses = fuel, lodging, & meals, plus ___ hours driving time?

Fly?
Re CWW & JR, from MO ---> FL & back, besides air fare, there would be car rental exp.
Plus meals, plus lodging.
Travel flexibility = not like NYC or DC subways & buses, cheap & readily avail, thus car rental exp.

The 2 ^ diff kinds of travel leave different digital footprints.
For air tix & car rental, mos' def' CC or debit card trails, as cash gen'ly not accepted.
For lodging, maybe/probably ditto.

Fly or drive e-trails
- meals can be all cash, no e-trail to individuals.
- phone, text pings, no difference, e-trail to individuals (except w burners?).
- surv cams along the way, justat different spots.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

<respectfully bolded by me>

Well thought out post. Thank you.

Re. the portion I bolded - I've wondered the same but considering they came back later to get samples of the dog's DNA, this has been my line of thinking:

Right after TS's body was discovered and LE processed the crime scene, they collected DNA samples from all over the house, and probably including her body too. They sent those samples to the lab for processing. IIRC, it was several weeks later when LE came back to retrieve the dog DNA specimens. I was thinking that maybe the lab contacted LE to tell them that while processing the first samples they discovered a mixture that contained non-human DNA. If that were the case, they would probably need the dog's DNA in order for the lab to isolate the "mixed" sample. Does that make any sense? I'm no scientist for sure but I've followed enough cases on here to know that might be a possibility.

In fact, we have a pathologist who is a member. She posted extensively in Caylee Anthony's case. Tomorrow I will contact her and she is she can shed some light on what that may mean. It's been bugging me for a while.

Makes a lot of sense!

 

[arizona sunshine]

Would you really call that love?

No, I wouldn't call it love&#8230;..it's interesting to read the article and understand the warped sense of "love" the murderers have and use to describe their behaviour

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

 

[Lovemymnmnbren]

No, I wouldn't call it love&#8230;..it's interesting to read the article and understand the warped sense of "love" the murderers have and use to describe their behaviour

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

Love.. Possession .. Ownership .. Some insecure men blur the lines and confuse one for the other through in pride and it's not a good reciepe

 

[atthelake]

I also wondered about travel for ^MS, leading me to think about CWW & JR travel.

Regardless of where trip starts, there's travel time & out of pocket costs to balance.
And possibly incriminating digital footprint trails to consider.

Drive?
Re CWW & JR, from Mo ---> FL & back in car, IIUC the timeframe, it would have been a quick turn around, so no more than _?_ hours spent in Bonita Springs area.
Presumably they w/h/had advantage of being able to switch off driving duties.
And no vehicle rental exp, once in FL.
And travel flexibility in the area (no depending on taxis, Uber, etc)
Re total car trip expenses = fuel, lodging, & meals, plus ___ hours driving time?

Fly?
Re CWW & JR, from MO ---> FL & back, besides air fare, there would be car rental exp.
Plus meals, plus lodging.
Travel flexibility = not like NYC or DC subways & buses, cheap & readily avail, thus car rental exp.

The 2 ^ diff kinds of travel leave different digital footprints.
For air tix & car rental, mos' def' CC or debit card trails, as cash gen'ly not accepted.
For lodging, maybe/probably ditto.

Fly or drive e-trails
- meals can be all cash, no e-trail to individuals.
- phone, text pings, no difference, e-trail to individuals (except w burners?).
- surv cams along the way, justat different spots.

I think that phone call by JR employer to see if he could come in and do a shift on Monday is huge evidence . That was one of the first things to come out after they were arrested and has been said again and again.

That one phone call can verify where he was, as it was the call where he stated he was in Florida and could not make it in that on Monday .

I wish we knew exactly when that call was made!

As stated previously I think that media and law enforcement are working together to leak certain pieces of information...

ETA I am on the side of the fence that believes that they drove. Scott even talking in riddles about "pedal to the floor "... ( in addition to the mention of the words envelope and hammer which we are now seeing later has significance.. And yes I know hammer has never been said by him but it was by others and put in the media very quickly)

 

[Stopwatch]

Why would anyone who murdered for insurance money open up accounts immediately??? (Hypothetically speaking)

...maybe so noone thinks they murdered or plotted a murder for insurance money.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. Also, if they are greedy enough to murder for money, they might want to maximize the gain and just couldn't stand to miss the opportunity. Especially if they have to share with each other.

 

[makayla]

Do you think he drove or took a plane?

He could have flown in and rented a car ... I've seen rental cars with Florida plates even though the car is not being rented in Florida (I have no idea why that is, unless it's cheaper to keep it licensed in FL). Or he could have driven 16 hours to get there. It's another mystery!

 

[makayla]

No, I wouldn't call it love&#8230;..it's interesting to read the article and understand the warped sense of "love" the murderers have and use to describe their behaviour

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

I agree, a very warped view of love! It's frightening.

 

[Stopwatch]

No, I wouldn't call it love&#8230;..it's interesting to read the article and understand the warped sense of "love" the murderers have and use to describe their behaviour

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...09/why-do-some-men-murder-the-wives-they-love

"Whereas almost all cases of homicides committed by males against their female partners occurred after the female ended the relationship or announced her intention to do so..."

This is my thought exactly regarding what could have motivated MS if he was involved in plotting TS' death.

 

[Russian Blue]

That's a possibility, but I think it was to match back their DNA from saliva or hair that may have been found on the jump suit or other clothing JR or CWW wore. Was the DNA test from the dogs taken about the same time the raid on JRs place? If you have pets you know how the hair can be everywhere and your "guests" can take it home on their clothes.

<rsbm>

IMO, most likely to test for DNA in the event the dogs bit a perp.

 

[kammiemc]

I think that phone call by JR employer to see if he could come in and do a shift on Monday is huge evidence . That was one of the first things to come out after they were arrested and has been said again and again.

That one phone call can verify where he was, as it was the call where he stated he was in Florida and could not make it in that on Monday .

I wish we knew exactly when that call was made!

As stated previously I think that media and law enforcement are working together to leak certain pieces of information...

ETA I am on the side of the fence that believes that they drove. Scott even talking in riddles about "pedal to the floor "... ( in addition to the mention of the words envelope and hammer which we are now seeing later has significance.. And yes I know hammer has never been said by him but it was by others and put in the media very quickly)

The sheriff also made the reference of evidence having been gathered in FL, MO and points in between. (Which sort of made me think they had driven. But maybe that also has to do with MS having driven.) Maybe there is a stopping point on CWW's frequent car "commute" from MO->FL->MO (frequent, as told to us by Skinner) that is significant in this case.

http://www.winknews.com/2015/09/02/sheriff-scott-talks-sievers-case-with-nancy-grace/


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[lesajo]

I am going to try to mark my spot.The one thing that always jumps out at me after I read the thread and catch up every night is-- betrayal .