FL - Fendra Molme, 11 months, dies in hot car while parents attend church, Palm Bay, May 2023 *arrest*

  • #261
I agree 100%. I don't know what the answer is though, I don't think she should be locked up, but you're right, there should be some kind of consequence, but what could be worse than knowing that your baby died a horrific death and its your fault?.
I agree. Prison punishes the whole family. I did a little more research and I think (INAL) that she could end up with a plea deal of reduced charges where she gets probation and a fine. According to one defense source:

Florida’s child neglect laws were not intended to criminally punish parents or other caregivers for innocent human errors and momentary lapses of supervision. Tragic accidents are inevitable, and a tragedy is not lessened by prosecuting individuals who lack the requisite criminal intent.

Probation might be the appropriate result and at least for the duration someone would be supervising her. Maybe parenting classes too. JMO
 
  • #262
I believe another aspect that will be important is what witnesses say happen at the end of the service. Did she realize the baby was not there and frantically run outside to check? Or did she return to the car normally and freak out when she saw the baby unconscious?
They need to rule out that she intended to let the baby sleep in the car during the service and maybe pulled in somewhere shadier because of it, and made up the story of another bringing her inside later. It has implications for charges of neglect imo
(not implying anything, I have no more knowledge about the family than yall do)
 
  • #263
The

The ‘responsibility object’ should be the baby itself. You take the baby out of the car seat, hand the baby over to a responsible adult, etc. (I realize that this wouldn’t work for the original ‘child near water’ scenario.)




The discussion is, imo, advanced of that which is obvious.

The responsibility object is not a reminder to be placed in the car in lieu of remembering the baby.

And the child and object would be transferred to the responsible person at the same time.

Here there appears a habit of assistance by random church members where responsibility was pooled and led to oversight.

imo
 
  • #264
I believe another aspect that will be important is what witnesses say happen at the end of the service. Did she realize the baby was not there and frantically run outside to check? Or did she return to the car normally and freak out when she saw the baby unconscious?
They need to rule out that she intended to let the baby sleep in the car during the service and maybe pulled in somewhere shadier because of it, and made up the story of another bringing her inside later. It has implications for charges of neglect imo
(not implying anything, I have no more knowledge about the family than yall do)
According to the affidavit, after the service the mother was greeting members when someone asked where the baby was. The mother said she was with a church member but then couldn’t find her. She ran out to the car and found her still in her car seat.

 
  • #265
According to the affidavit, after the service the mother was greeting members when someone asked where the baby was. The mother said she was with a church member but then couldn’t find her. She ran out to the car and found her still in her car seat.

This is one more aspect about the case that, imo, is hard for me to understand.
That it was that long before she realized this church member didn’t have the baby. And I’d like to know if the member has a name, or if she always uses the term “church member “ because she never knows who is actually going to have the baby.
It just seems a rather odd and ambiguous situation and raises more questions, at least for me.
 
  • #266
  • #267
  • #268
I don’t know why all I see on the FB is one video. Or is it a video, as I can’t get it to play.
You're right. I closed the page, then I reopened it, and I see 4 reels, none of which are the one I posted. I can't explain that. I just edited my post with a disclaimer about it.
However, all is not lost. in the 108-minute welcome video of a previous service at the top of the page, there is extensive video of her singing as well as preaching.
 
  • #269
I don’t believe the idea is to have the children in control of the object.

It’s an adult face to face “I am putting responsibility for my child[ren] on you. This makes it official”.

One needs multiple cards or removable tags on a lanyard or whatever if more than one child is being entrusted. If one child is not present just the children subject to the transfer of responsibility would be represented.


imo
If someone can forget about a baby wouldn’t they also forget about a lanyard?

Example: Mom hands toddler to babysitter, along with lanyard. Mom states, “I am making you responsible for my baby and this lanyard makes it official.”

Several minutes later the babysitter’s text alert pings. Babysitter glances at phone, more texts come in, she forgets about the lanyard she is wearing.
 
  • #270
I have so many questions.

Was the 8 year old child normally in charge of unbuckling the younger children and removing them from the car?

Did a church member usually meet the mother at the vehicle to get the baby?

If mom thought a church member was taking care of the baby, what was this member’s name? Did mom provide this name to investigators so they could speak to the member and ask why she didn’t get the baby out of the car? If a church member was supposed to get the baby and failed to do so why wasn’t the church member charged?
 
  • #271
You're right. I closed the page, then I reopened it, and I see 4 reels, none of which are the one I posted. I can't explain that. I just edited my post with a disclaimer about it.
However, all is not lost. in the 108-minute welcome video of a previous service at the top of the page, there is extensive video of her singing as well as preaching.
Ok. I heard her singing , in the one video.
ETA: unkind comment deleted
 
Last edited:
  • #272
If someone can forget about a baby wouldn’t they also forget about a lanyard?

Example: Mom hands toddler to babysitter, along with lanyard. Mom states, “I am making you responsible for my baby and this lanyard makes it official.”

Several minutes later the babysitter’s text alert pings. Babysitter glances at phone, more texts come in, she forgets about the lanyard she is wearing.

It's for a communal child caring situation like described at the church.

Or parties with lots of kids around water.

Where it seems everyone is watching and helping and assumptions are made.

I'm not sure how it would help here though considering the mother is charged.

Imo
 
  • #273
Notes from Affidavit

Mother normally arrives at 9:30 am with the 4 children, to prepare for service.
On this day, she arrived at 10:20. (father already at church leading Sunday school, as per usual)
Witness (E.C), says mother typically gives him equipment to set up for presentation.
EC says the 3 kids walk in, verified that the 11 month old (J1) was usually with another church member. (Question: Where was EC when they saw the 3 children walk in? )
During service, father playing piano, mother leading service, oldest child playing drums.
Middle 2 children in children's church in the side room.
EC said mother and father are caring parents.
Video surveillance from Malabar Discount Beverage showed mother's vehicle arrived at 10:21 am. 3 older kids enter church. No church member or other adult approaches the vehicle to assist mother. (Question: Where is video camera? Would it show if anyone was standing inside of the church door? On Google maps, I can see a couple of video cameras, one at each front corner of the building.)
Father said mother normally parked in front of church door and members would help with unloading equipment and children. This time she parked off to the side. (Question: Where did she park? What could a person see of the church entrance from that position? Was there another car in that normal front space since they arrived so late, so she had to go elsewhere, and by the time church was over, that car was gone?)
Father said he thought J1 was with an older lady.
Father shared timeline of weekend, nothing suspicious or unusual had happened.

Arrival: 3 kids got out of vehicle as mother opened trunk to get laptop and bible. As she went to the front passenger seat to get her robe, she saw the 3 older kids entering church with one of the older church ladies. Mother believed J1 was with a church member, that this was normal routine on Sundays. (Is it possible the kids were walking to the church entrance, and she assumed they were following an adult? If so, why?)
Mother did not hear jJ1 in vehicle and believed child was with other kids and a church member. Mother closed vehicle door and went inside church to lead service.
 
  • #274
Moo.. society has made changes on responsibility. As a child I and my younger siblings spent hours in the car, the car was basically a free babysitter. Probably many a child died. Moo
 
  • #275
Moo.. society has made changes on responsibility. As a child I and my younger siblings spent hours in the car, the car was basically a free babysitter. Probably many a child died. Moo
When I was a child I remember people leaving their car windows down more often than not. Maybe because nearly all vehicles had windows you had to roll up by hand rather than push a button.

People usually didn’t lock vehicles in the area where I lived either.

I can remember playing hide & seek with kids in the neighborhood where sometimes kids hid in vehicles.

If it rained my parents would tell us to run out and roll up the car windows, as they were usually down.

I remember adults warning kids not to get into the trucks of cars, just like they warned us not to get into an old refrigerator or freezer.
 
Last edited:
  • #276
Moo.. society has made changes on responsibility. As a child I and my younger siblings spent hours in the car, the car was basically a free babysitter. Probably many a child died. Moo

I always thought the problem was associated with the air bag requirement, which forced car seats to be in the back of the car, which made it much easier for people to forget they had a baby back there.

MOO
 
  • #277
  • #278
  • #279
@chipwhitley posted the link to this WaPo article from 2009 early in the thread. It’s called “Fatal Distraction” and it’s a long and painful, well-researched and very important article about loving, responsible parents who have forgotten their child in a hot car. It may be beyond a paywall for most and it doesn’t have a “gift article” option, so I’m going to quote in two posts what I think are very important points for everyone to know.


1) What happens in the brain that causes a loving parent to forget their child is in the car.

2) The reason we have trouble understanding how on earth a loving parent could ever forget their child.

Starting with number one, the brain and the memory:

“Memory is a machine,” he says, “and it is not flawless. Our conscious mind prioritizes things by importance, but on a cellular level, our memory does not. If you’re capable of forgetting your cellphone, you are potentially capable of forgetting your child.”

[David] Diamond is a professor of molecular physiology at the University of South Florida and a consultant to the veterans hospital in Tampa. He’s here for a national science conference to give a speech about his research, which involves the intersection of emotion, stress and memory. What he’s found is that under some circumstances, the most sophisticated part of our thought-processing center can be held hostage to a competing memory system, a primitive portion of the brain that is -- by a design as old as the dinosaur’s -- inattentive, pigheaded, nonanalytical, stupid.

The human brain, he says, is a magnificent but jury-rigged device in which newer and more sophisticated structures sit atop a junk heap of prototype brains still used by lower species. At the top of the device are the smartest and most nimble parts: the prefrontal cortex, which thinks and analyzes, and the hippocampus, which makes and holds on to our immediate memories. At the bottom is the basal ganglia, nearly identical to the brains of lizards, controlling voluntary but barely conscious actions.

Diamond says that in situations involving familiar, routine motor skills, the human animal presses the basal ganglia into service as a sort of auxiliary autopilot. When our prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are planning our day on the way to work, the ignorant but efficient basal ganglia is operating the car; that’s why you’ll sometimes find yourself having driven from point A to point B without a clear recollection of the route you took, the turns you made or the scenery you saw.

Ordinarily, says Diamond, this delegation of duty “works beautifully, like a symphony. But sometimes, it turns into the ‘1812 Overture.’ The cannons take over and overwhelm.”

By experimentally exposing rats to the presence of cats, and then recording electrochemical changes in the rodents’ brains, Diamond has found that stress -- either sudden or chronic -- can weaken the brain’s higher-functioning centers, making them more susceptible to bullying from the basal ganglia. He’s seen the same sort of thing play out in cases he’s followed involving infant deaths in cars.

“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”

<snip>

British psychologist James Reason coined the term the “Swiss Cheese Model” in 1990 to explain through analogy why catastrophic failures can occur in organizations despite multiple layers of defense. Reason likens the layers to slices of Swiss cheese, piled upon each other, five or six deep. The holes represent small, potentially insignificant weaknesses. Things will totally collapse only rarely, he says, but when they do, it is by coincidence -- when all the holes happen to align so that there is a breach through the entire system.
Heartbreaking article. I found the following excerpts particularly poignant:

Two decades ago, this was relatively rare. But in the early 1990s, car-safety experts declared that passenger-side front airbags could kill children, and they recommended that child seats be moved to the back of the car; then, for even more safety for the very young, that the baby seats be pivoted to face the rear. If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

There is a general misconception, Fennell says, about who these people are: “They tend to be the doting parents, the kind who buy baby locks and safety gates.” These cases, she says, are failures of memory, not of love.

“Some people think, ‘Okay, I can see forgetting a child for two minutes, but not eight hours.’ What they don’t understand is that the parent in his or her mind has dropped off the baby at day care and thinks the baby is happy and well taken care of. Once that’s in your brain, there is no reason to worry or check on the baby for the rest of the day.”

Humans, Hickling said, have a fundamental need to create and maintain a narrative for their lives in which the universe is not implacable and heartless, that terrible things do not happen at random, and that catastrophe can be avoided if you are vigilant and responsible.

In hyperthermia cases, he believes, the parents are demonized for much the same reasons. “We are vulnerable, but we don’t want to be reminded of that. We want to believe that the world is understandable and controllable and unthreatening, that if we follow the rules, we’ll be okay. So, when this kind of thing happens to other people, we need to put them in a different category from us. We don’t want to resemble them, and the fact that we might is too terrifying to deal with. So, they have to be monsters.”
 
  • #280
<modsnip - not an approved source>

“I was unable to speak with the defendant, who was on scene because she was inconsolable and hysterical,” Detective Danti wrote.

"Would I be able to sit down behind this piano again? Please we need your prayer more than ever," Jn Molme, wrote on a Facebook page populated with pictures of Fendra, his youngest child.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
62
Guests online
2,212
Total visitors
2,274

Forum statistics

Threads
633,146
Messages
18,636,367
Members
243,411
Latest member
Unreliable Man
Back
Top