FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

[amicuscurie]

Ok, thank you. But just the father backing her is beyond unbelievable. He is beyond powerful and well-known in South Florida like you cannot imagine. Well, I guess you can't imagine since he is a billionaire. It is beyond me how in the world he would choose this woman as someone that he should be supporting. He went out on a limb for her giving statements when they had the dateline episode on years ago, and in hiring her. Why on earth would someone like that do that?

It really made me go beyond to think she is dating a billionaire's son now, but the truth is, she has led nothing but a charmed life since all of this happened.

All I can say is, there are all kinds of people in the world, and as a general principle not speaking specifically about anyone in this case, manipulative people who need sympathy have a way of finding sympathetic people who can be manipulated. Being rich does not, unfortunately, prevent one from being such a person, just as being a successful dentist does not prevent one from being a convicted murderer. We all, rich and poor alike, have vulnerabilities which unfortunately can be exploited at the right time and under the right circumstances by the wrong people. It’s hard to believe, but this seems to be how the world works. If you think something could never happen to you, be careful. You don’t really know anyone.

 

[cottonweaver]

Ok, thank you. But just the father backing her is beyond unbelievable. He is beyond powerful and well-known in South Florida like you cannot imagine. Well, I guess you can imagine since he is a billionaire. It is beyond me how in the world he would choose this woman as someone that he should be supporting. He went out on a limb for her giving statements when they had the dateline episode on years ago, and in hiring her. Why on earth would someone like that do that?

It really made me go beyond to think she is dating a billionaire's son now, but the truth is, even if it's a different wealthy boyfriend, she has led nothing but a charmed life since all of this happened.

IDK about the George angle but do recall the M Fernandez support.

'Florida Politics' wrote a lot over the years about the special favors for the Adelsons- whom Ben Graber recently described as ' a Five Star family' - and their political and legal connections. ( Insider information via judges was one of the allegations but there were more)

With entitlement, you often get arrogance & hubris. I'd say it was a particular feature of this case.

You'll have noticed how many times that Charlie & Donna both trash the jury in the jailhouse calls. How dare they! They're ' third graders' who don't have the capacity or right to stand in judgement over them

 

[BearWatcher]

I have to say - you all are good at picking apart the phone calls - using this one above as an example. Someone should tell Cappellman to read this thread for which calls to play in court!

I am guessing Georgia and her team play 3D chess for relaxation and are way ahead of us here, albeit they have new cell phone and iPad data they are looking through hopefully by now to keep them occupied. Wonder if any of them peruse this chat and see what we have caught that they already knew about eons ago.

 

[cottonweaver]

Here's a few of the references to the children which emphasise again just how twisted they are.
Haven't listened to all the calls - gets depressing after a while - but I made notes of a few.

Timestamps and links to make it easier for others to check out

Donna: all their dirty work...the ultimate is.. they would like the grand children and are figuring out a way to do it.
9th Nov, 35mins here:

Donna: Ben couldn’t go to school but she made him go this morning . You’ll be able to call and talk to him, after school in maybe a week ....They love u, they understand, they know that none of us had anything to do with this, they’re sad. We’ll leave it at that for now
8th Nov, about 2mins in here:

Charlie: I wanted to do so much with…..I wanted to do so much with Ben… it kills me not being able to be doing stuff with him over the last year like he's actually becoming like a cool teenager
59m 20 here

 

[cottonweaver]

can't paste more than three links in one post

continued...
Charlie: 'There was only one person trying to stop grandparents from seeing grandkids and that was Danny and ‘he was never going to go anywhere' (?)
7m 13

Charlie: the Markels are trying to get innocent people arrested and their kids taken from them
19m

 

[Missyrocks5]

All I can say is, there are all kinds of people in the world, and as a general principle not speaking specifically about anyone in this case, manipulative people who need sympathy have a way of finding sympathetic people who can be manipulated. Being rich does not, unfortunately, prevent one from being such a person, just as being a successful dentist does not prevent one from being a convicted murderer. We all, rich and poor alike, have vulnerabilities which unfortunately can be exploited at the right time and under the right circumstances by the wrong people. It’s hard to believe, but this seems to be how the world works. If you think something could never happen to you, be careful. You don’t really know anyone.

IDK about the George angle but do recall the M Fernandez support.

'Florida Politics' wrote a lot over the years about the special favors for the Adelsons- whom Ben Graber recently described as ' a Five Star family' - and their political and legal connections. ( Insider information via judges was one of the allegations but there were more)

With entitlement, you often get arrogance & hubris. I'd say it was a particular feature of this case.

You'll have noticed how many times that Charlie & Donna both trash the jury in the jailhouse calls. How dare they! They're ' third graders' who don't have the capacity or right to stand in judgement over them

It's so true. I find it so disturbing that, in addition to everything else we know about what she did taking away the Markel name & making sure they had no relationship with their other grandparents, etc, that these folks are still aligning themselves with her is behind galling.

 

[vislaw]

Just some of my thoughts. ... Of course, I was more than pleased when I learned Donna was arrested and I've been fascinated to have the window into the Adelson world through the jailhouse calls. I must admit that I have to periodically remind myself that these are people with serious pathologies (evidenced well before the murder through behavior that is well documented). I mention this because when we observe others it is human nature to project our own feelings and experiences -- even if we do so subliminally -- and I find myself repeatedly becoming exasperated and furious at CA and DA for their complete lack of any self-reflection, empathy for others, or willingness to accept the smallest amount of accountability for their actions.

I've been playing a mental game in which I assume Charlie's story is true. If that were the case, both Donna and Charlie would definitely harbor extraordinary anger and hostility towards SG, LR, and KM. The former not only murdered the boys' father; they also supposedly ran the extortion scheme and would truly be the ones who brought all of this hell down on the Adelsons. And Katie (according to his story) turns out to not only be double-crossing Charlie, she testified that he was the mastermind and literally helped put him behind bars. It is so telling that there isn't a shred of outrage toward them and, instead, the bad guys are Georgia and the stupid jury.

I have to keep telling myself that the Adelsons aren't going to change and they aren't going to have a true reckoning in terms of a Perry Mason moment of admitting guilt. They will sing these songs to the day they die and the best we can hope for is that when the grim reaper comes for them they will both still be incarcerated.

 

[BearWatcher]

Here's a few of the references to the children which emphasise again just how twisted they are.
Haven't listened to all the calls - gets depressing after a while - but I made notes of a few.

Timestamps and links to make it easier for others to check out

Donna: all their dirty work...the ultimate is.. they would like the grand children and are figuring out a way to do it.
9th Nov, 35mins here:

Donna: Ben couldn’t go to school but she made him go this morning . You’ll be able to call and talk to him, after school in maybe a week ....They love u, they understand, they know that none of us had anything to do with this, they’re sad. We’ll leave it at that for now
8th Nov, about 2mins in here:

Charlie: I wanted to do so much with…..I wanted to do so much with Ben… it kills me not being able to be doing stuff with him over the last year like he's actually becoming like a cool teenager
59m 20 here

In the first clip above, at about 35 min, does Charlie say ‘Wendy showed up at the scene (pause) I wished she hadn’t’….? That last statement after the pause is not included in the subtitles, but think it is there. Any significant to admission of guilt / conspiracy, and implicating Wendi?

 

[stamplewie]

Ok, thank

you. But just the father backing her is beyond unbelievable. He is beyond powerful and well-known in South Florida like you cannot imagine. Well, I guess you can imagine since he is a billionaire. It is beyond me how in the world he would choose this woman as someone that he should be supporting. He went out on a limb for her giving statements when they had the dateline episode on years ago, and in hiring her. Why on earth would someone like that do that?

It really made me go beyond to think she is dating a billionaire's son now, but the truth is, even if it's a different wealthy boyfriend, she has led nothing but a charmed life since all of this happened.

George Fernandez, son of billionaire Mike Fernandez (no idea if this "George" is actually Wendy's current "George" boyfriend):

George Fernandez

With more than 20 years of entrepreneurial healthcare experience, George Fernandez is the managing partner of Florida Physicians PSN, a value-based healthcare provider for government insurance options based in South Miami, Florida.An energetic and passionate leader, he serves as the company’s...

www.childrensmovementflorida.org

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-fernandez-1b39155?trk=public_post_feed-actor-image

 

[amicuscurie]

Here's a few of the references to the children which emphasise again just how twisted they are.
Haven't listened to all the calls - gets depressing after a while - but I made notes of a few.

Timestamps and links to make it easier for others to check out

Donna: all their dirty work...the ultimate is.. they would like the grand children and are figuring out a way to do it.
9th Nov, 35mins here:

Donna: Ben couldn’t go to school but she made him go this morning . You’ll be able to call and talk to him, after school in maybe a week ....They love u, they understand, they know that none of us had anything to do with this, they’re sad. We’ll leave it at that for now
8th Nov, about 2mins in here:

Charlie: I wanted to do so much with…..I wanted to do so much with Ben… it kills me not being able to be doing stuff with him over the last year like he's actually becoming like a cool teenager
59m 20 here

Yes, to me the first quote sounds like they are blaming the Markels for going after them one by one for this crime, because they want to have the grandchildren for themselves. Again, no words.

 

[amicuscurie]

In the first clip above, at about 35 min, does Charlie say ‘Wendy showed up at the scene (pause) I wished she hadn’t’….? That last statement after the pause is not included in the subtitles, but think it is there. Any significant to admission of guilt / conspiracy, and implicating Wendi?

I don’t think so. He can easily say he mean that he wishes she hadn’t because it makes it look like she knew something, which is very bad for his case. (That is, in fact, what he says in these calls). That's not the same as admitting she actually DID know something, and/or he actually IS guilty.

 

[amicuscurie]

George Fernandez, son of billionaire Mike Fernandez (no idea if this "George" is actually Wendy's current "George" boyfriend):

George Fernandez

With more than 20 years of entrepreneurial healthcare experience, George Fernandez is the managing partner of Florida Physicians PSN, a value-based healthcare provider for government insurance options based in South Miami, Florida.An energetic and passionate leader, he serves as the company’s...

www.childrensmovementflorida.org

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-fernandez-1b39155?trk=public_post_feed-actor-image

This George is absolutely NOT the same Jorge who Donna is referring to on the calls as Wendi’s current boyfriend. Out of respect for this George and his family, let’s please put that rumor to rest and not repeat it, even as a question or uncertainty.

 

[Misy]

I get that, but if it was me even in that situation, I think it would take me a while to put it together and I’d probably be saying “What?“ a lot and asking how it happened, confirming that this is the same shooting the realtor was talking about, etc. But that’s just me.

I think WA asked if the kids were alright when she was in the car from the restaurant. Yes, the realtor voicemail said she heard there was a shooting on Trescott. No other details. WA’s reaction when Isom told her about a shooting, and it was DM, her reaction was way over the top. No immediate queries like, as you say amicuscurie, what? Are you sure? Just things that a truly surprised person would say. She starts sobbing immediately. It’s well known she didn’t have warm feelings for DM. He was threatening her law license and threatening to limit DAs visitation with the boys (totally understandably). Things were about to get uglier. And according to JL she hated DM. So her behavior in the police interview was really unrealistic. If there are real tears there imo it’s not about grief for DM but probably thinking omg we actually did this! JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

I think WA asked if the kids were alright when she was in the car from the restaurant. Yes, the realtor voicemail said she heard there was a shooting on Trescott. No other details. WA’s reaction when Isom told her about a shooting, and it was DM, her reaction was way over the top. No immediate queries like, as you say amicuscurie, what? Are you sure? Just things that a truly surprised person would say. She starts sobbing immediately. It’s well known she didn’t have warm feelings for DM. He was threatening her law license and threatening to limit DAs visitation with the boys (totally understandably). Things were about to get uglier. And according to JL she hated DM. So her behavior in the police interview was really unrealistic. If there are real tears there imo it’s not about grief for DM but probably thinking omg we actually did this! JMO

Assuming Donna and Charlie hatched this plan, it will always be somewhat of a mystery to me as to what Wendi knew and when she knew it, unless somebody talks.

 

[Knitpicker]

She seems to have cleared her house out and left for South Florida within two days of the murder. To me, that seems like a pretty short time in which to move, but what do I know. In Ruth Markel’s book she says she went to the house after the funeral and it appeared that few of the children’s toys and things were there in the living room, and she thought this was unusual. Ruth says WendI promised she could visit with the boys for the next day. According to Ruth, when she called Wendi the next day to set up that visit, Wendi cancelled it, saying the boys were “busy.” The day after that, (two days after the funeral) Ruth says she asked again if she could see the boys, and Wendi told her they were in South Florida, having left the day before but hadn’t told Ruth of their plans to leave because she was concerned about “security.” Ruth then realized that this was probably why so few of the children’s toys and things were visible when she went to Wendi’s house for the funeral.

I think we are talking about two different times. I am talking about when she served him papers.you are talking about after the murder.

 

[Misy]

Assuming Donna and Charlie hatched this plan, it will always be somewhat of a mystery to me as to what Wendi knew and when she knew it, unless somebody talks.

Unless someone talks (or SAO has more info that we don’t know) yes it’s hard to know the planning and between whom. But it sure seems like WA knew about it. Maybe just kept in the dark as to when. Allow her to have plausible deniability, safer for everyone, since as the ex she would be initially be questioned. Det Isom seems to be under her “spell”,as JL describes WA as doing. Isom is kindly sympathetic but he also talks to her as if she was a child. And he pretty quickly brought in the victims advocate. She wasn’t questioned too much and not at all thoroughly. Certainly sounds like she has a way with men, as JL said. MOO

 

[Sustained]

Assuming Donna and Charlie hatched this plan, it will always be somewhat of a mystery to me as to what Wendi knew and when she knew it, unless somebody talks.

Someone will definitely talk - probably CA. He can't help himself - perhaps it will be to another inmate, perhaps a letter to someone who will in turn notify LE. After the realization hits him he will be in a FL max for an estimated 30-35 years and Wendi is living the good life, he will talk.

MOO

 

[amicuscurie]

I think we are talking about two different times. I am talking about when she served him papers.you are talking about after the murder.

Yes, that’s what I am talking about. Although in my opinion, both departures were done very quickly with the assistance of the parents.

 

[cottonweaver]

Someone will definitely talk - probably CA. He can't help himself - perhaps it will be to another inmate, perhaps a letter to someone who will in turn notify LE. After the realization hits him he will be in a FL max for an estimated 30-35 years and Wendi is living the good life, he will talk.

MOO

Another risky chatterer is Donna
- already told a pal of Charlie's about the plans for Vietnam
- can be heard in the hot mic call bitching to the accountant about Wendi ( to the extent she replies wtte of ' but will Wendi tip off the cops?')

 

[Knitpicker]

This George is absolutely NOT the same Jorge who Donna is referring to on the calls as Wendi’s current boyfriend. Out of respect for this George and his family, let’s please put that rumor to rest and not repeat it, even as a question or uncertainty.

It was mentioned as fact on reliable sources. How do you know it is not the same George? Wendi moved recently to Coral Gables which seems to be where he lives.