FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #9

[lilacwine]

Okay... a related theory...

What if it was a workman who had developed an infatuation with her and instead of the weekend getaway being the catalyst... what if they were almost done working on her condo...

The locks would be changed...

He wouldn't have a reason to be around Jen anymore....

Feeling desperate...and "now or nothing" he acted.

I say this because I had read Jen and Rob traveled to see one another every weekend... so going to see Rob for the weekend wouldn't be any less upsetting (I would guess) than going away with him for the weekend.

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

Okay... a related theory...

What if it was a workman who had developed an infatuation with her and instead of the weekend getaway being the catalyst... what if they were almost done working on her condo...

The locks would be changed...

He wouldn't have a reason to be around Jen anymore....

Feeling desperate...and "now or nothing" he acted.

I say this because I had read Jen and Rob traveled to see one another every weekend... so going to see Rob for the weekend wouldn't be any less upsetting (I would guess) than going away with him for the weekend.

Really good point... I like your thinking...

I suppose the question then is do we think a worker can pull off an abduction like this that basically doesn't have a "crime scene" per se that is noticable.... no major fingerprints, no hits on dna... how does he overpower her? Does he have help? So many questions... would like to see where your thoughts bring this.

 

[Drivenon]

Okay... a related theory...

What if it was a workman who had developed an infatuation with her and instead of the weekend getaway being the catalyst... what if they were almost done working on her condo...

The locks would be changed...

He wouldn't have a reason to be around Jen anymore....

Feeling desperate...and "now or nothing" he acted.

I say this because I had read Jen and Rob traveled to see one another every weekend... so going to see Rob for the weekend wouldn't be any less upsetting (I would guess) than going away with him for the weekend.

I thought about this as well, and truthfully cannot rule out the possibility.
However, they operated with a Master Key, and we cannot determine who had access except to say it could have been really any worker given they were permitted to utilize the empty units randomly with no ID or reference checks. So the lock change would not matter.

I agree that the weekend getaway if she is staying with him most weekends, would be non-event. But that to me might amplify a reaction by someone that sees this first ever vacation weekend together as a stake through the heart, which could apply to either theory. Throw in the x at her condo for the weekend, the fact by all accounts (please correct if appropriate) she did not give permission for the party, it was supposed to be held elsewhere and that fell through, I feel compelled to ask "Who had the keys to get into her house in the first place?"

Could it be a worker that moved her car- absolutely. Could it be a worker that caused her disappearance? Possible, but I go to "unlikely" based on the sheer lack of clues, signs of struggle, missing items that would ID her, and unfortunately, the fact that her cell was "off" by 6 or 9am, depending on which report you read. Even very organized offenders with no tie to the victim previously, will not go to these lengths, sometimes even taking a momento or placing the remains in a place they have picked out long beforehand, but would have to be very close to her condo, imo, to control where and to a degree "when" the victim is found.

Someone that does NOT want the victim to ever be found because they HAVE a tie to them, does.

I truly believe that her cell and house phone records paint a more accurate portrait of what we are dealing with here. Who was calling her cell, home, or emailing her while she was away? Who called her immediately upon return?
When were the getaway arrangements made? Was there any calls to LE over the weekend re the Man-Festival at her condo?

 

[Drivenon]

Really good point... I like your thinking...

I suppose the question then is do we think a worker can pull off an abduction like this that basically doesn't have a "crime scene" per se that is noticable.... no major fingerprints, no hits on dna... how does he overpower her? Does he have help? So many questions... would like to see where your thoughts bring this.

As I indicated above, I think it unlikely given how quickly she was reported missing. I truly believe based on everything I have read about her, and from her parents own comments, Jenn would have fought fiercely if she were accosted by a "worker" or someone she did not know and would have known immediately that individual would mean her harm.

For me, if LE wont specifiy they know whether or not she left the condo that evening or was abducted in the am, they do not even believe the theory of a "worker", or that the condo was too clean to be a crime scene as well.
Using the word "vanished" tells me they do NOT know where the crime scene occurred.

UCF- was ANYTHING collected from the condo? Sheets, towels, laundry?

 

[lilacwine]

In some ways I think it'd be easier for a worker/painter to have a clean scene. He'd be trained to clean up.

He could have chloroformed her and stashed her somewhere. Taken her to a condo we was working on and then wrapped her up in the tarps etc....

His vehicle, or those he had access to, would have been large enough to deal with disposing of a body.

(I'm so sorry to even write that as I know that you're friends with her. I hope more than anything that she is alive.)

It would explain the car being moved after the call about her came in. It would explain the drop off location being close enough for him to walk back. He would have acccess to gloves, tape, and other binding material that would not be suspicious for him to have in his vehicle.

I don't think he had an accomplice. But, I think he is a deeply obsessive man who is a predator.

I also come back to the DVD player in the backseat. Let's assume Jen put the player in the car.. she comes out with that, her purse & briefcase. She's putting the DVD player in the car when he comes up and pulls a weapon and has her get in the car. She's leaving a little early because of mailing the cell phone so it's closer to sunrise and not as light out. This could have provided the opportunity. His vehicle could have been parked nearby or right next to her car.

 

[Drivenon]

Respectfully, cleaning up consruction and a crime scene are 2 entirely different scenarios. The statistical "going rate" of disorganized offenders is an average of 25 errors during and after the commission of the offense leading to evidentiary markers LE is trained to see


He could have chloroformed her and stashed her somewhere. Taken her to a condo we was working on and then wrapped her up in the tarps etc....

That is possible, but again, signifies organized offender, all accounts that the workers were of ethnic origin, spoke little English, and organized offender would stick out in that scenario, but I agree is possible. For all we know and how lax the security was, an offender could have come dressed as a worker, scored keys, and well, would be in the scope of possible for OO. Also, remember this place was crawling with managers, LE and the family by 11am, do you then feel this was done the evening of the 23rd and she was removed early am?B]
His vehicle, or those he had access to, would have been large enough to deal with disposing of a body.

Under your theory, a construction dumpster would have been adequate and she would not necessarily have to be removed, although I do believe she was based on canine evidence

(I'm so sorry to even write that as I know that you're friends with her. I hope more than anything that she is alive.)

As Do I, sorry in advance,but it is the only way I know how to work through the scenarios.

It would explain the car being moved after the call about her came in. It would explain the drop off location being close enough for him to walk back. He would have acccess to gloves, tape, and other binding material that would not be suspicious for him to have in his vehicle.

We know that the car was parked at noon, but we do NOT know what time or when it was removed from the lot of her condo, there is no witness to that. Point being if the crime scene was elsewhere, we would have no idea where the unsub came from. I agree with you this is crucial. If that car was moved from her condo that morning, and most especially after anyone was alerted she may be missing, it would have me leaning heavily that it was a condo worker

I don't think he had an accomplice. But, I think he is a deeply obsessive man who is a predator. If he is an OO, I completely agree. But I am not convinced that who moved her car was involved with what happened to Jen, and an OO would NEVER go to all that trouble to conceal and then take the chance of getting caught through the moving of the car. Also, your not going to catch him personally on camera, imo.

I also come back to the DVD player in the backseat. Let's assume Jen put the player in the car.. she comes out with that, her purse & briefcase. She's putting the DVD player in the car when he comes up and pulls a weapon and has her get in the car. She's leaving a little early because of mailing the cell phone so it's closer to sunrise and not as light out. This could have provided the opportunity. His vehicle could have been parked nearby or right next to her car.[/QUOTE]

Again possible, but does it make sense to leave that in the car and then lock it? The unsub discarded anything that could ID her? If you look where he parked, he could have obscured that car far better in the rear of the building, in fact, it was seen from the road, IIRC

I hope we are all cool with working through each others theories, I have no basis over anyone to thinkI am right, just hopeful to come up with something to further this poor woman's case:blowkiss:

 

[lilacwine]

My point about cleaning up the scene though is based on thinking it was an abduction scene.
I don't think Jen was murdered in the parking lot/car or her condo.

We really have no evidence of that. Cleaning up an abduction scene and wiping down a car could be done effectively, in my opinion.

If the place where Jen was taken has never been searched, we don't really know how clean it is.


I would suspect that almost all the contents of her purse and briefcase would be taken and transferred with her. But the DVD player... the car already identifies her and the DVD player I don't see as a personal enough piece for the offender to dispose of.

 

[lilacwine]

I guess I wouldnt' call anything I say as a theory... because I don't have access to too many pieces...

but this case haunts me... and so exploring possibilities is more of my approach.

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

I have to say I like everyone's thoughts- keep 'em coming. I do not know about anything being removed from the condo.

 

[Myserty64]

Some criminals get lucky, it's as simple as that.

How many unsolved crimes are there in the US? Hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands?

How many unsolved crimes have a photo of the suspect, finger prints and DNA?

On the other hand how many solved crimes had no real crime scene, no body, no motive and no witnesses and very little evidence?

So the suspect here had truckloads of good luck. The good luck even extended to having his face obscured by gate posts in two different photos.

 

[Myserty64]

Shortly after Jennifer's abduction a person using the screen name of Christopher Marlowe posted a rather brutal scenario of what he thought happened to Jennifer.
On first reading my blood ran cold because I thought it was written by the perpetrator. ( you must remember that three weeks after the abduction nobody knew much at all)
Then I decided it must have been written by a professional crime writer or at least a wordsmith because it was a very well written piece.
Some of the people who have been posting about Jennifer's case will remember his posts.

Where is Christopher Marlowe? I'd like to know his thoughts on this case three years on.

 

[Myserty64]

Anyone interested can read a piece by Christopher Marlowe in a repost here at Webslueths.

Just scroll down a little way to a post by 13th Juror:


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35547&highlight=Jennifer+Kesse&page=14

There may be more further on.

On a side note I saw some of my early posts here! I was looking for the earth to swallow me up. Talk about a cringe factor.:blushing:

 

[Drivenon]

My point about cleaning up the scene though is based on thinking it was an abduction scene.
I don't think Jen was murdered in the parking lot/car or her condo.

We really have no evidence of that. Cleaning up an abduction scene and wiping down a car could be done effectively, in my opinion.

If the place where Jen was taken has never been searched, we don't really know how clean it is.


I would suspect that almost all the contents of her purse and briefcase would be taken and transferred with her. But the DVD player... the car already identifies her and the DVD player I don't see as a personal enough piece for the offender to dispose of.

To your point, if it was strictly an abduction, I would have to agree with you.

 

[Drivenon]

Shortly after Jennifer's abduction a person using the screen name of Christopher Marlowe posted a rather brutal scenario of what he thought happened to Jennifer.
On first reading my blood ran cold because I thought it was written by the perpetrator. ( you must remember that three weeks after the abduction nobody knew much at all)
Then I decided it must have been written by a professional crime writer or at least a wordsmith because it was a very well written piece.
Some of the people who have been posting about Jennifer's case will remember his posts.

Where is Christopher Marlowe? I'd like to know his thoughts on this case three years on.

Thanks for posting that, I believe I read scenario 2, and the first post was deleted per Christopher Marlowe ( no the irony is not lost SM..) Does anyone have it or can point me to a link.. I'll even take a summary..lol

 

[lilacwine]

I've read some of the Christopher Marlowe stuff too.. I think he posted at Justice for Chandra Levy forum.. as well??? Or Topix... did you try to search Christopher Marlowe + Jennifer Kesse on google? That's how I caught it a bit back.

I agree it is probably more than an abduction... but we may only know where the abduction scene is. If Jen was removed to another site where the more for lack of a better word here, tragic, crime occurred.. then there may be significant evidence.

 

[Myserty64]

Yes I did that search lilacwine but thanks for the tip anyway.

Drivenon I would dearly love to read that first scenario too. I have his second one plus some of his responses to other posters who were either praising or criticising his scenario.

Nothing has worked with trying to solve this case.
The Kesse family along with friends and supporters spent an enormous amount of time holding placards on the road near Mosaic.
There have been a countless number of flyers distributed.
There have been TV specials along with radio and print media interviews.
We all got our hopes up when the playing cards were put into local prisons and the list goes on but never a breakthrough.

Right now, even as you read this, the perpetrator is out there somewhere.
Is he in Florida? Is he even in the USA?
What does he look like today?
What work does he do today?
Will he reoffend?
Is he single or married?
Is he still alive? (accidents happen)

Where is he?
How does he live with himself?

 

[lilacwine]

Shortly after Jennifer's abduction a person using the screen name of Christopher Marlowe posted a rather brutal scenario of what he thought happened to Jennifer.
On first reading my blood ran cold because I thought it was written by the perpetrator. ( you must remember that three weeks after the abduction nobody knew much at all)
Then I decided it must have been written by a professional crime writer or at least a wordsmith because it was a very well written piece.
Some of the people who have been posting about Jennifer's case will remember his posts.

Where is Christopher Marlowe? I'd like to know his thoughts on this case three years on.

I do find it odd that he seems to have disappeared.... and doesn't seem to use the name on other forums about crimes...

 

[Drivenon]

I've read some of the Christopher Marlowe stuff too.. I think he posted at Justice for Chandra Levy forum.. as well??? Or Topix... did you try to search Christopher Marlowe + Jennifer Kesse on google? That's how I caught it a bit back.

I agree it is probably more than an abduction... but we may only know where the abduction scene is. If Jen was removed to another site where the more for lack of a better word here, tragic, crime occurred.. then there may be significant evidence.

I am researching the JFCL now, thank you for that.. I agree, but to add that at one time, perhaps an alternative crime scene yielded significant amount of evidence, I think unless we get some of the "luck" the offender has had, I would say we are going to need to find her, or be led to her.

So, we keep at it

 

[lilacwine]

I agree that after this time evidence will most likely have been lost.

If you do find anything on the Marlowe thing, please let me know...

 

[Myserty64]

Ditto for me with Christopher Marlowe. A person with that ability doesn't stop writing.

And Drivenon is right........just where is Jennifer?