GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[songline]

BBM: Things go so much faster when you answer your own question.

I think the problem is private citizens carrying guns that make them "feel" like police officers--only without the training.

LMAO :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[songline]

I think the SYG or potential-SYG claim makes this news. The other shootings you mention are criminal, without question. I grew up in the Florida and I can remember when they would have made the news; but there were far fewer Floridians back then.

Great Point and as it should be, because the SYG needs to be corrected.

 

[tlcya]

When you are involved in an incident involing discharging your weapon during a confrontation you are obligated by law to report. Mr. Dunn did not, he fled the scene. Instead, he returned to his hotel. He still did not report the incident. When he woke the next morning, he saw on the news that Jordan had been hit and killed. He still did not report, he fled city, fled the county and drove 160 miles home. Upon arriving he STILL did not report. He was tracked to his home by law enforcement.

All of the above, to any reasonable person, constitutes flight. To argue otherwise is ridiculous IMO. All over the web, there are persons of a particular mindset trolling comment sections of news articles and discussion forums pronouncing that Mr. Dunn had evey intention of reporting this incident and his involvement therein. He intended to turn himself in to his LEO neighbor. He was in the process of getting legal counsel.

All I can say to that is Mr. Dunn apparently is very decisive and quick to act in some of the actions he took (telling the teens to turn the music down, perceiving a shotgun and threat to his life, firing 8 to 9 rounds into a vehicle at a gas station/convenience store with bystanders present) and extemely slow to act on his "intentions" to do the right things afterwards.

 

[Sonya610]

So, got a link regarding that alleged shotgun? If not, please don't make statements that indicate a fact when it's not a fact. tia

I believe previous quotes in this thread stated shot gun, it has been a matter of debate for a while. Do not claim I am the first one to bring it up.

 

[Cat99]

Snipped for space.

I am more like 95% sure there was no gun. If we're dealing with a bunch of teenagers packing heat, then I have a hard time seeing them not firing back especially if they were the ones to first pull out a gun. I would think it would be instinct to start shooting at someone who is shooting at you if you already have a weapon in hand.

Do we know how much time elapsed between the actual shooting and the time of Mr. Dunn's apprehention? I know it was sometime the next day, but with a license plate number readily available, did police arrive at his home before he did? Maybe it was a rental car and it took longer to get that information?

Ugh! I need to know more.

I ask this because I am pretty positive these teens were held at a police station for many, many hours the night of the shooting to give sworn statements and then, if they were all minors, they would be released to their parents. So, I am trying to sort out any time they would have to go back to retrieve this gun and get rid of it before Mr. Dunn's arrest and statement that there was a gun involved.

We need a better timeline.

BBM - It is my understanding that one of Mr. Dunn's stories via his attorney was that the teens left and drove around the block and ditched the gun and then came back.

1st problem - there is no "block" to drive around at that location.

2nd - JSO - is very thorough, to put it mildly. The car and surrounding areas were searched and there were no guns or drugs found.

 

[flourish]

Ok, so it's come out in the MSM that ONE of the injurred teenagers had a previous run in with the law, which was at the time of the death of his dad. This fact doesn't change the dynamics of this case at all. The only one saying the teens had a weapon (which has NOT been located by LE) and the only one saying the teens threatened him is the shooter.

Burglarizing cars is a far cry from having a weapon. It is a nonviolent crime. The teen has apologized to the victims and he's been serving probation. Yes he was out past his court appointed curfew that fateful night, but that has nothing to do with his friend being shot dead in the same car he was in. It isn't justification for ANYONE to open fire on an occupied car.

Playing loud music is not a crime. Shooting an unarmed teenager is a crime. Perhaps the teens could have avoided trouble by not playing their music so loud, but the shooter didn't have to park next to the teens either.

While we're at it, perhaps they should do mental evaluations on people before they purchase a gun or get a permit to carry. Which, btw, they haven't been able to verify this guy had a permit to carry. From everything brought out in the MSM, the only possible crime here is shooting a person who was not doing any harm to the shooter. The deceased victim was in the back seat of the car.

So listen you all, please do NOT sleuth the victims. The just linked article is ok, because it is MSM. But let's not go there that he was looking for trouble. Like I said, loud music is not a capital crime punishable by death.

Let's not re-victimize the victims here.

TIA
fran

Reminder bump with my bold added
:bump:

 

[tlcya]

As far as I know, there's no credible evidence pointing to a shotgun even existing in this situation, so unless there is a new link with LE stating a shotgun was found or that they have evidence there was one used here, there was no "youth with a shotgun" to go scurrying anywhere at any speed.

So, got a link regarding that alleged shotgun? If not, please don't make statements that indicate a fact when it's not a fact. tia

While I totally get your frustration, the perp says he saw one and though I don't believe him, Sonya clearly stated she THINKS there was one and did not state it is a fact in the post you quoted.

I disagree with Sonya but she has every right to express her theory.

 

[Cat99]

All the Malls are outside (except Regency and there was a shooting inside there last year I think 1 or 2 people were killed) the beltway. There use to be malls inside but they are run down and some have been converted into other things. And loud rap music.

No, Avenues Mall is inside and has no problems.

Furthermore, these boys had just left St. Johns Towncenter, which is outside, and has many upscale stores and restaurants. Actually, Nordstrom is planned to be the newest addition.

Nordstrom coming to Jacksonville's St. Johns Town Center
snip:


It’s the first time the Seattle-based department chain has entered the Jacksonville market, and it will be the only Nordstrom between Orlando and Atlanta.

and snip:



The Town Center is already the only location between Central Florida and Atlanta for high-end retailers such as Mayors, Tiffany & Co. and Louis Vuitton. But Kirn said Nordstrom could make the city attractive to even more.



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...ksonvilles-st-johns-town-center#ixzz2DkvtSk00

BTW - St. Johns Towncenter is inside the 295 beltway.

 

[songline]

I am so confused why we think the chances are good that these teens had a gun or a criminal record? Why is it that we take the victim and try to make them into a bad guy? Because of statistics about certain people? Is that it? If so, it's damn sad.

Not sure about this.
If a kid has been suspended from school, or arrested, or been part of a gang, or a GF beater, IT IS GOOD TO KNOW chances are when daddy comes along telling us what a great kid he is at least we have some information so we do not always assume that some punk kid did not instigate anything. And some mad man just emptied a gun.

IN this case it does seem that a madman may have emptied a gun (maybe a drunk man).

 

[writer7]

I had to leave for a bit; I'm sorry the segment on HLN was over so fast! I didn't mean to fake y'all out


I understand leaving room for an alleged gun, just because that is the man's defense and he has not been convicted. I don't expect to know the full story until the trial.

For me, I seriously doubt there could have been a shotgun. The police charged this man based on things we don't know, for one thing, like the witness statements. The man's just too hinky for me with his fleeing and all, so I definitely lean toward siding with the cops and his bail hearing judge. It seems as if the argument he started ended in him being the only one firing any shots, and a kid is dead. I'll hear out his side, but I don't feel bad at all for feeling like he's got a lot to prove.

 

[writer7]

No, Avenues Mall is inside and has no problems.

Furthermore, these boys had just left St. Johns Towncenter, which is outside, and has many upscale stores and restaurants. Actually, Nordstrom is planned to be the newest addition.

Nordstrom coming to Jacksonville's St. Johns Town Center
snip:


It’s the first time the Seattle-based department chain has entered the Jacksonville market, and it will be the only Nordstrom between Orlando and Atlanta.

and snip:



The Town Center is already the only location between Central Florida and Atlanta for high-end retailers such as Mayors, Tiffany & Co. and Louis Vuitton. But Kirn said Nordstrom could make the city attractive to even more.



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...ksonvilles-st-johns-town-center#ixzz2DkvtSk00

BTW - St. Johns Towncenter is inside the 295 beltway.

From his pictures, I could see him shopping at some upscale place, at least for his parents for Christmas gifts. He looks like his family isn't hurting for money. I've read since I noticed that that his dad works at Delta. Solid. Good for them

 

[rossva]

BBM I think that has yet to be determined in either case.

I think the point that was being made was that you do not see white men following white kids and shooting them claiming self defense or white men shooting and killing white kids over loud music and claiming self defense.

Of course there are a lot of self defense cases that are very valid and they vary from race, age, social status, gender etc... There are also very clear cases where SYG is being used when it does not apply that vary as well.

What makes the two cases that are mentioned in this thread unique is the circumstances in which these two young boys were killed. Both boys were the ones confronted by their shooter in a threatening/angry manner by complete strangers who had no right to say two words to them as they were not hurting anyone or committing any crime. Unless we are to believe that violating a city ordinance on loud music deserves the death penalty in this case?

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case. I am very happy that Mr. Dunn has not been given bond because his actions directly after the shooting and the days after. He is most definitely a flight risk.

 

[flourish]

While I totally get your frustration, the perp says he saw one and though I don't believe him, Sonya clearly stated she THINKS there was one and did not state it is a fact in the post you quoted.

I disagree with Sonya but she has every right to express her theory.

You are correct, she did say "think."
I have concerns that repetition of the idea that a shotgun was present gives a lot of potential for "misunderstanding" by other readers and/or a morph into "truth." But I'm not a mod--so it's not my place to get all in a fuss about it.

tlcox, I appreciate your kind reminder. It's folks like you who help make WS the awesome place it is.

Admittedly, I do feel frustrated when I feel that others are going out of their way to blame victims. In any case, I'm looking forward to getting more information about this case as time goes on, so that we are able to look at the details and the actual scenario with more facts to go on.

 

[tlcya]

I had to leave for a bit; I'm sorry the segment on HLN was over so fast! I didn't mean to fake y'all out


I understand leaving room for an alleged gun, just because that is the man's defense and he has not been convicted. I don't expect to know the full story until the trial.

For me, I seriously doubt there could have been a shotgun. The police charged this man based on things we don't know, for one thing, like the witness statements. The man's just too hinky for me with his fleeing and all, so I definitely lean toward siding with the cops and his bail hearing judge. It seems as if the argument he started ended in him being the only one firing any shots, and a kid is dead. I'll hear out his side, but I don't feel bad at all for feeling like he's got a lot to prove.

Well put. My thoughts as well. Thanks for putting them to words so succinctly.

 

[songline]

I agree that drugs may have played a part in this case. I believe Mr. Dunn was heavily intoxicated at the time of the shooting. He had just left his son's wedding reception. Alcohol is a drug.

BBM:
OMG his son will be so proud, and his sons wife & family will have a cow.

 

[songline]

Do you think the shooter targeted the person in the back seat of just shot randomly like most shootings including police involved shootings!

I think he had no brain cells in gear.

 

[songline]

Most likely
Agree 100% And I wouldn't rule out pot as well!

:waitasec: I never in my life heard about a case where someone was abusive in anyway because they smoked pot. :waitasec:
:floorlaugh:

 

[songline]

Chances are the music wasn't the reason shots were fired.

It often is not what it seems, chances are the shooter was not so happy about the wedding and had more anger then joy. MOST leave a sons wedding happy not with that much fury.
But I am no psychic and niether are you.

A KID IS DEAD...

 

[daisy7]

50 or so. My luck is running out.

I lived in Miami for 10 years. The last 3 years I lived there I went to some of the worst areas on a regular basis (Liberty City, Allapatah, etc.) 3-4 days/week for work.

I went way more than 50 times, but I never felt threatened, was never shot at nor did I see anyone else shot. I certainly never felt the need to carry a gun to go there. Though, I was continually offered a multitude of drugs, many that I didn't know the names of

Regardless, how does the crime rate of Jax justify a man shooting 8-9 bullets into a car full of teen boys? I'm not understanding the logic to justify this?

 

[songline]

I can't figure out if the teens had a shotgun, how on earth this man was able to get his gun out and shoot before they could even get a shot off? Was it pointed at him? Was it imagined? Where did it go when the police came?

He drove away and never called the cops? That's odd. If I'm in the right and believe I have defended myself, I will call the cops. Criminals break into my home, if I shoot them, I'll call the cops. Someone attacks me on the street, if I shoot them, I'm going to call the police. I really can't think of a time where I would shoot at people, leave the scene and go about my day as if it didn't happen. Color me confused. lol

BBB: he emptied his gun on a bunch of kids, then the coward ran..You do not run.