GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[Davita]

JMO, but I don't think it's fair to say he was probably drunk. We have no evidence that he was. His son says he wasn't too. I know his son isn't the most trusted source because he's a family member, but I think we need more evidence before assuming he was drunk.

I've referred to him as probably drunk before in this thread, but I've been thinking about it, and it just doesn't seem right to jump to that conclusion. JMO

With you on this one.

We can assume perhaps that he was planning on getting tipsy... seeing that his girlfriend brought a bottle of wine? LOL.

 

[daisy7]

I hope it comes to light at what stage the music was turned down. If the music was so loud, how did he hear them yelling back at him words to the extent of "kill the m-ukker..."

And thinking about it, did they actually hear him when he TOLD them to turn the volume down?

Cant wait to hear what the bystanders and the other teens have to say.

Another thing that I have been thinking about. 17 is very very young, inexperienced, innocent, etc. If NONE of the boys had any violent records, or trouble with the law, I cant see that they will have the state of mind to hide a gun, especially in the light of their friend just being shot to death in front of them. There is NO way that they would be able to hide a shotgun so well that not even LE could find it.

Question, is it perhaps possible that the teens saw trouble coming and pulled out a cricket bat? Seeing that some say Jacksonville is a violent place, is it possible that they carried bats with them?

Respectfully, BBM. This is the first I heard this -- do you have a link? TIA!

 

[Bee Happy]

I haven't read the last few pages yet, but what do we think happened?
The kids pointed a shotgun (or showed it), Dunn shot up the truck, with their friend shot up, they drive off to hide the gun...and THEN come back?

 

[Davita]

Respectfully, BBM. This is the first I heard this -- do you have a link? TIA!

http://globalgrind.com/news/michael...er-jordan-davis-stand-your-ground-law-defense

 

[Steely Dan]

Respectfully, BBM. This is the first I heard this -- do you have a link? TIA!

http://www.examiner.com/article/fla...not-guilty-to-murder-for-killing-unarmed-teen

...Lemonidis claims the teens were yelling, “Kill the mother******, that mother****** dead, you dead b****, and then he (Dunn) sees... the shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV…” She added that Dunn saw “at least four black men in it (the SUV). And he doesn’t know how old anybody is… but he knows a shotgun when he sees one,” according to the Post....

 

[Bee Happy]

Do we know if Dunn got out of his car to tell them to turn the music down? Did he shoot from his car?

 

[Davita]

Do we know if Dunn got out of his car to tell them to turn the music down? Did he shoot from his car?

How I understand it, it says that he reached into his glove compartment, got the gun and fired at them. If that is a true account, he either sat in the driver's seat or in the passenger seat (girlfriend driving) or he was standing outside the car and reached inside and got the gun from the glove compartment.

 

[Steely Dan]

Do we know if Dunn got out of his car to tell them to turn the music down? Did he shoot from his car?

I wrote this earlier in the thread. I think it helps explain what you're asking about.

I find this quote from Dunn's attorney fascinating. I've transcribed it from the video as best I could. If anyone finds errors please correct me.

After saying the kids made threats to kill him and telling someone to kill that MFer and stuff like that. She says; "And he sees that much of a shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV which is up higher than his Jetta. All he sees are heavily tinted front windows that are up, back windows that are down and the car has at least four black men in it, and he doesn't know how old anybody is, he doesn't know anything, but he knows a shotgun when he sees one."

Obviously, this is his story being repeated by his lawyer. So this had to be coming from him.


Here's are my problems with that statement;

"All he sees are heavily tinted front windows that are up, back windows that are down and the car has at least four black men in it." This statement is also telling; "...over the rim of the SUV which is up higher than his Jetta."

From what she's saying it seems he's sitting in the front seat of his car talking to a kid in the back of the SUV who had a rolled down window. He would have been looking at an angle and back in order to do this. (If they were parked next to each other with the SUV's passenger door next to the Jetta's drivers side door. Which is how most people park, and in the video the SUV is parked straight with the front pointed to the curb.)


So how did he know there were "at least" four black men in it? If the front windows are heavily tinted. How can he see into the car on the passenger side window? If he can only see into the back of the cars open window then how did he know that there were "at least" four black men in the car?
She says; "he sees that much of a shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV which is up higher than his Jetta" That seems to imply he was sitting in his car when the alleged gun was raised. However, it just doesn't make sense.

He must have gotten up and exited his car and approached the back window of the SUV. While having his gun. It seems to me that it's most likely that he could only know both back windows were open by seeing the window from one side to the other. He could only have known the race of the two front occupants (I believe there were four people in the SUV, maybe I'm wrong) If he was standing at the back window and could see into the car.

Then the statement; "the car has at least four black men in it," is totally unnecessary, unless you're paranoid of black people. JMO

The other question I have is when did his girlfriend come out and get into his car? What's her story?

 

[Steely Dan]

"He did something that there was no defense for," the father said of the suspect.
Ron Davis said his son didn't own any guns, wasn't part of a gang and was a good kid. When Dunn pulled out the gun, the teens' initially thought it was a fake then frantically tried to back up the car before being caught in the gunfire, Ron Davis said.
The father said he talked to two of the teens who were in the car, and they are "really shaken."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/us/florida-music-shooting/

This is the article I was responding to, btw.

 

[Davita]

Who says the teens did not feel threatened also? IF they had a shotgun, is that against the law? (I believe they did not have one). Who says Mr Dunn did not threaten them and (if they had any weapon) produced a weapon for self defence? How long did Mr Dunn have the gun in his hand, pointing at the teens before he actually shot at them?

PS: I am just asking these things... not expecting answers, just to provoke thoughts.

 

[Bee Happy]

Has anyone seen the truck? Is it a red SUV? I think I saw one being towed in a video. I thought Dunn said the truck had heavily tinted windows, but the one I saw did not.

 

[Bee Happy]

Does anyone remember Trevor Dooley?
The black man that shot and killed the younger white gentleman? I don't recall what happened with that case, but everyone said that the victim, David James had every right to defend the kids and himself from this guy that approached with a gun. And I agree!
What I don't understand is why kids like Trayvon and Jordan have to sit and take the abuse that these guys are giving them. They aren't allowed to talk back or fight back. If they do, then they deserve everything they got.

 

[tlcya]

One of the recent articles (sorry, don't have the link handy) said that it hadn't yet been confirmed that Dunn had a CW permit. Has anyone seen anything else about whether he did or did not have one?

We have not seen anything confirming or denying yet in the msm whether the shooter had a CC permit. My suspicion is that he may not have and that, in part, played a part in his decision to hightail it home to consult with his LEO neighbor friend rather than imediately contacting local LE.

AGAIN, this is simply my own speculation on the unknown.

 

[Isabelle]

http://www.examiner.com/article/fla...not-guilty-to-murder-for-killing-unarmed-teen

...Lemonidis claims the teens were yelling, “Kill the mother******, that mother****** dead, you dead b****, and then he (Dunn) sees... the shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV…” She added that Dunn saw “at least four black men in it (the SUV). And he doesn’t know how old anybody is… but he knows a shotgun when he sees one,” according to the Post....

I think Dunn's attorney is trying to work the SYG law!

 

[Isabelle]

Has anyone seen the truck? Is it a red SUV? I think I saw one being towed in a video. I thought Dunn said the truck had heavily tinted windows, but the one I saw did not.

Would like to see the vehicle and where the gunshot damage is.

 

[daisy7]

http://globalgrind.com/news/michael...er-jordan-davis-stand-your-ground-law-defense

Thanks!

From the link:

and then he sees that much of the shotgun coming up over the rim of the SUV which is up higher than his Jetta, Lemonidis told reporters. And it’s-all he sees are heavily tinted windows, which are up and the back windows which are down, and the car has at least four black men in it.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/michael...s-stand-your-ground-law-defense#ixzz2DrzULa1M

BBM. So, his own attorney basically admitted that this was racially motivated. Doesn't this mean that it can be considered a hate crime under federal laws?

 

[mobeydick]

It amazing the number of people posting on this site (this site especially where people are supposed to think about what may have happened) would believe a successful 45yo white man would roll up on four good young black men and start busting caps for no reason (loud Music).

It also amazing that those same people wouldn't believe that at least one of those four good young black men wouldn't start acting like a gangster and threaten then represent (something maybe not a gun) a firearm to a 45yo white male.

We know for a fact people in groups act more boldly and try and bully individuals.

 

[JaxFlaGal]

Of the local Jax news outlets that I frequent, I've found the most detail here: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/jordandavis/default.aspx

Also the local Jax newspaper's online site has an article today in which they interview Dunn's ex-wife about the wedding that day:
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-12-02/story/wedding-celebration-murder-charg

 

[tlcya]

Thanks JaxFlaGal, good to have you posting. Great links.

 

[Sonya610]

One of the recent articles (sorry, don't have the link handy) said that it hadn't yet been confirmed that Dunn had a CW permit. Has anyone seen anything else about whether he did or did not have one?

Not sure why it matters. Florida does not require a CCW permit to keep a loaded weapon in the car.

The most important exception to the crime of carrying a concealed firearm or carrying a concealed weapon occurs when you are in a private vehicle, so long as you are 18 years of age, or older. In that case Florida law usually allows the weapon or firearm to be legally kept ‘securely encased" in the vehicle, although there are some exceptions. The simplest and most common definition of "securely encased" means it is in a holster or gun rug that is snapped, zipped, or strapped, or in a box or container with a closed lid or top so that the lid or top must be physically opened in order to use or fire the weapon. Securely encased would also allow the firearm or weapon to be placed inside a closed glove compartment or closed console of a vehicle. The firearm may be fully loaded at the time, however, it cannot be concealed on your person unless you also have a CWP.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Carrying-Concealed-Firearm-Concealed-Weapon.html