Found Deceased FL - Lane Graves, 2, Walt Disney World, 14 June 2016 #1

[AlwaysShocked]

http://www.aaanimalcontrol.com/professional-trapper/howtogetridofalligators.html

Here's a link to an animal control company that offers alligator removal services. They are very clear about the dangers to pets and small children of having an alligator on a property. They talk about the increased danger at night and during mating season, etc. They also talk about preventative measures for people who have ponds on their property being fencing.

 

[sloane7777]

http://www.aaanimalcontrol.com/professional-trapper/howtogetridofalligators.html

Here's a link to an animal control company that offers alligator removal services. They are very clear about the dangers to pets and small children of having an alligator on a property. They talk about the increased danger at night and during mating season, etc. They also talk about preventative measures for people who have ponds on their property being fencing.

THANK YOU ! again Disney SHOULD KNOW THIS!!!! this is really making me angry at just how PREVENTABLE is was!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

There are a couple of videos on Inside Edition website. This one mentions the closure of the former water park, River Country, adjacent to Grand Floridian.

http://www.insideedition.com/headli...rfect-place-for-gators-to-thrive-photographer

 

[sloane7777]

Yep, obviously they knew they had an "alligator problem". And yet they continued their practice of inviting families with children to their "beach" at night - the very time when the risk for danger was at its highest. (But based on the videos and photos that have now surfaced, the daytime hours don't look too safe either!) I suspect this does indeed reflect the attitude of the "Mayor" in the movie "Jaws". Not wanting to "make a big deal" of a known danger in order to not negatively affect the tourist industry.

I just wonder, who made the decisions involved in "handling the wildlife" at Disney? Was it a corporate committee?

Sometimes lawsuits are not filed to gain money for the people filing the lawsuit. (Although the entity being sued will put this forth as the "reason" for the suit.) Simply getting the truth of a situation out to the public at large can propel a lawsuit.

I'd sure like to hear Disney's side of this story. Because right now it is looking like they have been making some vey poor decisions for a long time. One of the first people to speak out about being attacked by an alligator at Disney was an 8 year old child when he was attacked thirty years ago!

For people who live in Florida: Are there any requirements for anybody at all in Florida to take any measures to control alligators on a property? I once visited a relative in West Palm Beach who lived in a complex that had "irrigation ditches" on the property. As she explained it this was brackish, stinky water that was used to water the grass and landscaping on the property at night. She told me that recently someone's small dog had been killed by an alligator that was lurking in the "irrigation ditch". Is this common? When we Northerners are reading about "they are everywhere" - what exactly does that mean? That you might go outside and there is one in your yard, or is it only where there is some kind of standing water that they would be encountered?

they are eveywhere even in the yard, they removed one at a middle school playground here a few weeks ago 7 ft , they released it back into the trinity by my house ! ugh!

 

[Hatfield]

Yep, obviously they knew they had an "alligator problem". And yet they continued their practice of inviting families with children to their "beach" at night - the very time when the risk for danger was at its highest. (But based on the videos and photos that have now surfaced, the daytime hours don't look too safe either!) I suspect this does indeed reflect the attitude of the "Mayor" in the movie "Jaws". Not wanting to "make a big deal" of a known danger in order to not negatively affect the tourist industry.

I just wonder, who made the decisions involved in "handling the wildlife" at Disney? Was it a corporate committee?

Sometimes lawsuits are not filed to gain money for the people filing the lawsuit. (Although the entity being sued will put this forth as the "reason" for the suit.) Simply getting the truth of a situation out to the public at large can propel a lawsuit.

I'd sure like to hear Disney's side of this story. Because right now it is looking like they have been making some vey poor decisions for a long time. One of the first people to speak out about being attacked by an alligator at Disney was an 8 year old child when he was attacked thirty years ago!

For people who live in Florida: Are there any requirements for anybody at all in Florida to take any measures to control alligators on a property? I once visited a relative in West Palm Beach who lived in a complex that had "irrigation ditches" on the property. As she explained it this was brackish, stinky water that was used to water the grass and landscaping on the property at night. She told me that recently someone's small dog had been killed by an alligator that was lurking in the "irrigation ditch". Is this common? When we Northerners are reading about "they are everywhere" - what exactly does that mean? That you might go outside and there is one in your yard, or is it only where there is some kind of standing water that they would be encountered?

I don't live in Florida but have visited enough to be able to answer what it means when people say they are "everywhere".

What it means is they "can be anywhere" where there is water accessable. So you just have to be on guard all the time. When you live down there you learn to respect any body of water like was at that resort.

Its not like you see them all the time but there is always that chance one could be in any body of water that is big enough and accessable enough.

Its one of those things that you don't have to be so afraid that you dont visit or anything like that at all. You just have to learn how to be safe. Which means there would be no way you would want to wade in that water like at the resort they had.

Take a look at the overhead views of that water near where boy was snatched. It connected to a larger body of water. So it was a prime spot for alligators lurking.

There really should have been signs because guests would not know. The signs they did have about not swimming was not enough because the family may have thought it meant just not to swim because of drowning.

I am pretty sure there will be signs in the future there now. A little late though.

 

[AmyPond]

I can't post pictures or a link just yet (assuming the local news will have pictures eventually) but there is a huge push to cover the city of Omaha in blue bows, there are local businesses making them and giving them out for free. ❤️ warms my heart. I will say it again, one of the many, many things I love about Nebraska!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't seen which places are giving them out for free. But I know Mangelsen's is donating proceeds to the family.
There is a post/photo about it here. (I don't know how to link to the exact post. It was posted at 12:19pm.)
https://www.facebook.com/MalorieMaddoxWOWT/?fref=ts

 

[Hatfield]

This is a fairly good map of what the water looked like and all the connecting bodies of water. Prime habitat for gators to move around.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-m...t-walt-disney-world-report-map-htmlstory.html

ETA If you left click on the map and move your cursor around you will see the larger body of water to the right And notice all the little canals. The gators use the canals to travel from one spot to another.

And they will come on land too but usually do not go too far from the water. But there are always exceptions to everything and many stories of people finding them way up on land away from water. So you definitely just want to always be aware of them and keep an eye out for one just in case. You get used to it when you live down there. For unsuspecting guests it was an easy mistake for the parents to make without them being warned. Very unfortunate and sad.

 

[Betty P]

Here's another pic with kids in the same lagoon: http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/17/disney-alligator-attack-parent-shaming/

This pic also shows how "1 foot into the water" is *nowhere near* water 1 foot deep. Instead, the water where the boy was wading would have been ankle height on an adult... maybe up to his knees (at most). I also love the second photo (if you scroll down) showing that an ad for the resort shows people standing in the lagoon.

Notice at that link there's also a photo of a Disney brochure for the hotel that shows people wading in the water.

 

[sonjay]

Here's another, watch at 2:45 too:

[video=youtube;YsTLPXiHPeo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsTLPXiHPeo[/video]
Published on Jul 31, 2015
This is footage of a small alligator...maybe 4 feet long...that was spotted chasing after some ducks in the Rivers Of America between Liberty Square and Frontierland at the Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World. While alligators are, obviously, common in Florida, they are rarely seen roaming freely in the theme parks themselves. Supposedly, they are only removed when they become a nuisance.

They might be rarely seen, but that doesn't mean they're not there, in plentiful numbers.

In a way, they could be compared to icebergs. You only ever see a small fraction of the total gator population.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

What I am not comprehending is how Disney ever came to the conclusion that it is "okay" to know there are alligators in their lagoons and in their "rivers" - including the now-abandoned "River Country" as shown in the above link. Where does the mind-set come from that it is not only not necessary to remove alligators of less than a certain size, but that it is not even necessary to post any kind of warning signage regarding this known danger.

Granted, there are situations, such as say at a ski resort, where a guest may place himself into a position of "known risk". But on a "beach", inside a Disney property, when you are attending a resort-sponsored event on that beach? It boggles the mind!

-------------------
Re: The American Alligator

In researching the protected status of this reptile , there are a raft of both Federal and State regulations. But unless I am reading incorrectly, this species was placed on the "endangered" list because it is "similar in APPEARANCE" to another alligator that was, in fact, endangered. So, to protect something that WAS endangered, the Feds made the decision to protect anything that even looked like the endangered species? Gosh, no wonder Florida and Louisiana are overrun by alligators!

Check this out:

"LEGAL STATUS

The American alligator is classified by the US Fish and Wildlife Service as similarity of appearance to a threatened taxon. This listing provides federal protection for alligators but allows state-approved management and control programs. This listing has been adopted by the State of Florida. Alligators can be legally taken only by individuals with proper licenses and permits."

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/facts/

 

[Hatfield]

They might be rarely seen, but that doesn't mean they're not there, in plentiful numbers.

In a way, they could be compared to icebergs. You only ever see a small fraction of the total gator population.

This is true. When the news was breaking about the boy they had pulled 4 out of the lagoon by the next day. And they were just getting started with that sort of work. They found him shortly after.

I wonder if they are going to try to reduce most of the gators from that area. They wont be able to get them all but I would bet if they kept looking for more they would find plenty more.

 

[sonjay]

Yep, obviously they knew they had an "alligator problem". And yet they continued their practice of inviting families with children to their "beach" at night - the very time when the risk for danger was at its highest. (But based on the videos and photos that have now surfaced, the daytime hours don't look too safe either!) I suspect this does indeed reflect the attitude of the "Mayor" in the movie "Jaws". Not wanting to "make a big deal" of a known danger in order to not negatively affect the tourist industry.

I just wonder, who made the decisions involved in "handling the wildlife" at Disney? Was it a corporate committee?

Sometimes lawsuits are not filed to gain money for the people filing the lawsuit. (Although the entity being sued will put this forth as the "reason" for the suit.) Simply getting the truth of a situation out to the public at large can propel a lawsuit.

I'd sure like to hear Disney's side of this story. Because right now it is looking like they have been making some vey poor decisions for a long time. One of the first people to speak out about being attacked by an alligator at Disney was an 8 year old child when he was attacked thirty years ago!

For people who live in Florida: Are there any requirements for anybody at all in Florida to take any measures to control alligators on a property? I once visited a relative in West Palm Beach who lived in a complex that had "irrigation ditches" on the property. As she explained it this was brackish, stinky water that was used to water the grass and landscaping on the property at night. She told me that recently someone's small dog had been killed by an alligator that was lurking in the "irrigation ditch". Is this common? When we Northerners are reading about "they are everywhere" - what exactly does that mean? That you might go outside and there is one in your yard, or is it only where there is some kind of standing water that they would be encountered?

BBM. I'm not aware of any specific requirements for gator control, but there are licensed trappers you can call if you have a nuisance gator. Well, first some state bureaucrat decides if it's really a nuisance gator, and if the bureaucrat decides it is, then a licensed trapper will come out and get it. Many of us know that the best way to deal with a gator where we don't want one is to deal with it ourselves. Gators are protected, and you can't just kill one, or catch it yourself and relocate it. They did recently reduce it from a felony to a misdemeanor if you mess with a gator, so at least the possible penalty isn't as bad if you get caught.

Yes, they're "everywhere." That means, literally, they're everywhere. There was just recently one in my daughter's next-door neighbor's front yard, and they don't live near any ponds, lakes, etc. They go into swimming pools. They've gone inside houses -- usually through a doggy door, or maybe a garage door that was left open. It's impossible to make any area gator-free. They're most common in areas with bodies of water, but they travel across land from place to place. You know how birds are everywhere? In Florida, gators are like that.

 

[sonjay]

This is really tragic but it is not the alligator's "fault" just like it wasn't the gorilla's. Alligator is hungry, child is available. That is the nature of nature.

I am struggling to understand why Disney has alligators in their park at all.

Honestly, because it's impossible to not have them.

 

[Hatfield]

Besides the protected species aspect for gators I do think one of the problems too is there is not a natural predator that can kill a gator. So its not like they have a natural enemy that reduces the herd.

Officials down there are supposed to monitor populations of them and allow more licenses for people to cull the herd but since the gators are not like great tasting venison like deer hunting the other problem is there are not a lot of hunters that like to go gator hunting.

Sure there are some who do that each year but its not like deer hunting states where there is a huge population of deer hunters each year to help reduce the herd.

 

[AmyPond]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...rand-floridian-fence-sign-20160617-story.html

These barriers are temporary until they can come up with something better.

 

[Hatfield]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...rand-floridian-fence-sign-20160617-story.html

These barriers are temporary until they can come up with something better.

There you go. That's the sign they needed before this happened.

Glad its there now at least.

 

[sonjay]

Besides the protected species aspect for gators I do think one of the problems too is there is not a natural predator that can kill a gator. So its not like they have a natural enemy that reduces the herd.

Officials down there are supposed to monitor populations of them and allow more licenses for people to cull the herd but since the gators are not like great tasting venison like deer hunting the other problem is there are not a lot of hunters that like to go gator hunting.

Sure there are some who do that each year but its not like deer hunting states where there is a huge population of deer hunters each year to help reduce the herd.

No, actually, gator is yummy. A lot of people around here would love to hunt them. There's a very limited season with limited permits for gator hunting. People try for years to get a permit. I understand Fish & Wildlife doesn't want gators to become endangered again. but I've been saying for years that we've got too many gators now. IMO, they need to issue a lot more gator permits. However many gators they allow people to hunt, that's how many will be hunted.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

This is so bizarre! It turns out that the ONLY reason the American alligator is on the Federal government's (and then, of couse, Florida's) "threatened" list is due to it being so close in appearance to ANOTHER endangered species that "enforcement personnel would have substantial difficulty in differentiating" the two.

It turns out that the American Alligator has NEVER been either "endangered" or "threatened". It just looked like another species. This "threatened due to looking like something else" classification was established in 1985.

http://ecos.fws.gov/docs/federal_register/fr970.pdf

So because of fears about some other type of alligator that looks like the "American alligator" both the Feds and Florida regulates licenses for taking alligators - even for nuisance alligators - fines, etc. Sounds like time to take a second look at this regulation. Perhaps since 1985 there has been developed a better ability on the part of wildlife personnel to differential between the two species?

It sure sounds like Florida is overrun by a species that never actually needed to be protected in the first place. The one video of an alligator upright, "pawing" at the front door of a house just freaked me out!

--------------------------------
Of course there are other states and areas where being overrun by a certain species becomes a bigtime problem. In Pennsylvania it was/is the deer. For a long time the state fought the "Bambi influence" resistance to any measures to cull the herd. When it is just the damn things eating all of your freshly blooming/freshly planted flowers, it is an annoyance. But when you are a farmer and the deer are regularly and significantly destroying your crops, it's more than an annoyance.

So, to reduce the numbers, changes were made in the length of the hunting season and the number of animals that could be taken. Now, we have many hunters lamenting the paucity of deer in certain counties. Complaints run along the lines of "I used to see 25 or 30 deer during a day. Now I am lucky to see 3 or 4." But the farmers are happier.

 

[sonjay]

• Permit and Alligator Trapping License for Florida Residents (includes 2 CITES tags for the harvest of 2 alligators): $272.00
• Permit and Alligator Trapping License for Non-Residents (includes 2 CITES tags for the harvest of 2 alligators): $1,022.00

http://myfwc.com/license/limited-entry-hunts/general-info/alligator-hunt-permit/

Permits for the 2016 alligator season are sold out.

 

[Hatfield]

Its interesting the "do not feed wildlife" part of the sign at the bottom. I am sure some guests to Disney World when seeing a gator would throw it some food scraps for fun. Then the guests get to go back home and tell stories how they saw a gator and even fed it.

And then their friends want to come to Disney too. And so it becomes a somewhat accepted thing for Disney to have certain amount of gator sightings to help their business.

It kind of makes me wonder if the reason that Disney did not have those signs before now is there may have been a certain culture of them not wanting the guests to be afraid of gators and maybe even wanted the guests to occasionally see them see a gator.

The most shocking thing to me about this story is the fact there were no signs like that before now.

Disney will not have to worry because us silly humans will just get used to the signs and there will always be the person who ignores the sign and feeds the gators anyway.

I do think it may help unsuspecting guests that are not familiar about gators and for that I am glad the signs are going up.