FL - Mary Knowlton, 73, fatally shot by Punta Gorda PD officer, 9 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

[drjones]

its highly unlikely that they were "supposed" to be using blanks. could be wrong but i would bet it is just being misreported.

either way this isnt a "tragic accident", it is negligence and charges should be filed.

 

[drjones]

the simplest and most likely answer as to how this happened imo is that the officer dropped his magazine and somehow forgot to clear the chamber, which had a live round in it.

but this should have never been able to happen because they should be using guns that cannot be fired, or at the very least be using guns that have been double or triple checked and marked to indicate they are absolutely cleared.

 

[KaaBoom]

Cop who shot and killed librarian had been ousted by Miramar police


The Punta Gorda policeman who tragically shot and killed a retired librarian when he fired real bullets — instead of blanks — at her during a citizens academy is a former Miramar officer with a troubled record, forced to resign from his job at the end of his rookie year.


Three years before the shooting that led to the death of 73-year-old Mary Knowlton on Tuesday, Lee Coel was accused twice of using excessive force and relieved of his duties before investigators found he violated department policies and was allowed to resign.


This year, he was sued in Punta Gorda after he ordered his K-9 to attack a bicyclist who was stopped for riding without a light at night, inflicting severe injuries that required surgery.


The officer’s background provides yet another twist to the death of the woman who was shot during a role-playing session in which she was a crime victim and he took the part of the “bad guy,” police said. The purpose: to help citizens learn the quick decisions that police must confront on the streets.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article94964257.html

 

[drjones]

Yes I know it was a live round. I'm just saying that blank rounds, what was supposed to be shot, are unnecessary to begin with for this type of event. Fake guns, paintball guns, airsoft guns, and even nerf guns would be way better for this.

it is gross incompetence that any weapon capable of firing an actual round was anywhere near where this was taking place. multiple people could face charges over this and a massive lawsuit should rightly be filed.

edit - forgot to say, they make guns specifically for this type of thing, they are incapable of being loaded with any type of round, things like simunition guns. it is insane if their actual plan was to use real weapons that were empty, or loaded with blanks, completely crazy.

 

[drjones]

it sounds like it really was supposed to be loaded with blanks, and it was a revolver not something with a magazine (re my earlier comment about how it could happen)

 

[ZooSleuth]

it sounds like it really was supposed to be loaded with blanks, and it was a revolver not something with a magazine (re my earlier comment about how it could happen)

I've read some reports that she was shot 3 times. That would mean it was more than just a live round in the chamber and the gun was loaded with live rounds. Not sure if the round in the chamber is even possible on a revolver, as I am not a gun expert.

 

[drjones]

I've read some reports that she was shot 3 times. That would mean it was more than just a live round in the chamber and the gun was loaded with live rounds. Not sure if the round in the chamber is even possible on a revolver, as I am not a gun expert.

nope, the cylinder contains the chambers, and each chamber rotates into position as the gun is fired, so if you take the cylinder out and empty it - you have emptied all the chambers.

as opposed to a gun with a magazine where the rounds are all in the magazine and the chamber is a separate thing, so you load in a magazine, then you charge the weapon which loads a round into the chamber - if you now take the magazine out, the gun is still loaded because there is one round in the chamber, which you must then clear.

 

[drjones]

and yeah i also saw she might have been shot multiple times, the whole thing is just bizarre.

 

[Elainera]

The Daily Mail claims he himself loaded the gun.

Police officer Lee Coel was captured as he accidentally shot and killed community volunteer Mary Knowlton, because he loaded his gun with live rounds instead of blanks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...live-rounds-instead-blanks.html#ixzz4H46QCE5T

So how stupid is this guy and how did he get to be a police officer?

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...ibility-for-citizens-academy-shooting/2289146
Punta Gorda chief takes 'full responsibility' for citizens academy shooting that killed 73-year-old librarian

• By Tamara Lush, Associated Press

Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:01pm
Punta Gorda officials aren't saying how a gun with a live round came to be used at Tuesday evening's demonstration, noting blank rounds are typically used in such classes.

 

[KaaBoom]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...ibility-for-citizens-academy-shooting/2289146
Punta Gorda chief takes 'full responsibility' for citizens academy shooting that killed 73-year-old librarian

• By Tamara Lush, Associated Press

Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:01pm
Punta Gorda officials aren't saying how a gun with a live round came to be used at Tuesday evening's demonstration, noting blank rounds are typically used in such classes.

So does this mean that the Chief will resign? Probably not.

Does it mean that he will do absolutely nothing, just like he did when his incompetent officer, let his dog chew on a bike rider for two minutes, because he didn’t have a light on his bike? Probably, yes.

Will the incompetent cop who killed the old lady resign, and then go and get a job with another department? Probably, yes. Thats the way he has operated before. It’s impossible to get rid of these incompetent fools.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

This incident is yet another heartbreaking tragedy that I saw on yesterday's news. And totally preventable. I can't imagine that checking a gun for live rounds isn't done and then double checked by someone else the way nurses do certain drugs such as insulin in hospitals. Two nurses must check and sign off for accountability. It could also be scheduled like a 'time out' in the OR. LE could also set up a system like that prior to every event. "Time out, we are all together, let's each check and double check the weapons and equipment, etc. Then sign off."
Further, why use a weapon that could possibly have live ammo?!

 

[Jax49]

Why isn't the officer under arrest? Either it is intentional murder or involuntary manslaughter. Calling it an 'accident' doesn't fly, IMHO.

 

[ZooSleuth]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...ibility-for-citizens-academy-shooting/2289146
Punta Gorda chief takes 'full responsibility' for citizens academy shooting that killed 73-year-old librarian

• By Tamara Lush, Associated Press

Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:01pm
Punta Gorda officials aren't saying how a gun with a live round came to be used at Tuesday evening's demonstration, noting blank rounds are typically used in such classes.

Taking full responsibility for this means he should be resigning and asking the DA to charge himself with negligent homicide. I bet he does neither.

ETA: @KaaBoom you beat me to it.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Why isn't the officer under arrest? Either it is intentional murder or involuntary manslaughter. Calling it an 'accident' doesn't fly, IMHO.

But arresting him would certainly get in the way of the paid vacation he's currently on!

Seriously though, I don't care how bad he feels about it, it's not about him it's about the life taken by his carelessness. If this was a regular citizen that made this mistake they would be charged already. Disgusting.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Sort of OT, but we should probably refrain from insinuating that anyone from Florida is a moron. Sadly, there are morons everywhere, spanning the globe. (I guess I'm feeling a little defensive today. Don't know what's come over me).

 

[jjenny]

Taking full responsibility for this means he should be resigning and asking the DA to charge himself with negligent homicide. I bet he does neither.

ETA: @KaaBoom you beat me to it.

Exactly. What does he mean by "taking full responsibility?" Is he volunteering to go to jail for negligent homicide? If not, then how he is "taking full responsibility?"

 

[al66pine]

Sort of OT, but we should probably refrain from insinuating that anyone from Florida is a moron. Sadly, there are morons everywhere, spanning the globe. (I guess I'm feeling a little defensive today. Don't know what's come over me).

Agreeing, sometimes we go overboard w silly, unwarranted comments. In the various states I've lived in & travelled in, I think I've run into some in all. :thinking:

 

[KaaBoom]

Why isn't the officer under arrest? Either it is intentional murder or involuntary manslaughter. Calling it an 'accident' doesn't fly, IMHO.

American cops don’t get arrested for their wrongdoing. They get paid administrative leave, and if the charges are substantiated, then they resign, and get a job with another police department. Then they repeat the process over again.

 

[CARIIS]

American cops don’t get arrested for their wrongdoing. They get paid administrative leave, and if the charges are substantiated, then they resign, and get a job with another police department. Then they repeat the process over again.

sometimes with a promotion .. it can vary !!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...ibility-for-citizens-academy-shooting/2289146
Punta Gorda chief takes 'full responsibility' for citizens academy shooting that killed 73-year-old librarian

• By Tamara Lush, Associated Press

Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:01pm
Punta Gorda officials aren't saying how a gun with a live round came to be used at Tuesday evening's demonstration, noting blank rounds are typically used in such classes.

This is almost insulting - we all can pretty well figure out that there are not suppossed to be bullets while playing cops and robbers. What seems to be forgotten in the story is that he shot her multple times.

Think about that zinger for a moment. The only conclusion I can come up with is a cop appered unable to ascertain that he was really shooting another human being. That alone is creepy IMO

I also kind dont think people in power are taking much notice of how we are appearing on the global stage-- headline from Daily Mail

[h=1]Florida mother, 73, is accidentally .....[/h]
We just look, to the rest of the world, like a bunch of cowboys in the wild west mo