FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #3

[passionflower]

Patience Carter is a great witness!

 

[tehcloser]

He was a terrorist. I think that is first and foremost. He himself said isis. I also think he was gay and in some crazy way he thought by targeting them he was erasing his sins. Imo

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hannity / Trump / FoxNews .. Interview now.

 

[CARIIS]

CNN interview with witness I heard him say

"he had enough explosives with him to light up the whole...

Apparently his big gun jammed - the witness said he then came in with pistol

When the cops blew out wall the guy said something like what and whoever turned around he shot

 

[Hatfield]

Witness says he was on phone as he walked in

I don't have a link handy but I think I read where LE found his phone in the place so maybe he was using a smart phone to get on his FB page.

 

[human]

http://bmkllp.com/newsletters/immigration/loss-of-citizenship-for-u-s-born-citizens/

True dat, but due process must still occur.

http://bmkllp.com/newsletters/immigration/loss-of-citizenship-for-u-s-born-citizens/

Belief in a religion (repugnant to others, or not), is not an expatriative act.

If one's religious beliefs motivates one to commit a potentially expatriative act, it is the specific action of that individual, not their choice of religion, that is the offense.

No legal basis exists to strip citizenship from anyone based solely upon the religion they choose to believe in.

That's all I'm sayin'.

Agree to disagree with anyone on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

God bless the First Amendment.

Hm. Many people have dual citizenship.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

One of the talking heads today said that they have his phone - but it has to "dry out" first - it was so drenched in blood.



JMHO

 

[sonjay]

I went back and read 2 more times. I didn't see those numbers. In fact the only thing I saw about radicalized and extreme. ..was that it was declining among the youth. So could you just quote me where it is talki n g about it because I must be missing it. I'm on my phone so that may be the difference. Tia.

Sure. They try to hide it, because, as has already been pointed out, Media Matters is a left-leaning progressive group, so they don't actually want to admit to radical Islam or to the presence of radical mosques in the US.

The link provided by nomoresorrow is an article intended to debunk the claim (a claim NOT made by Dolly, BTW) that 80% (or 85%) of all mosques are radical (or "have extreme leadership"). That's the focus -- they want to disprove someone's claim that 80% or 85% of mosques are radical.

So you scroll past all the smoke-and-mirrors nice-nice talk to the end where they write this. Pay attention to the part BBM. In the first paragraph below, the BBM is the claim they're debunking, and in the second paragraph below the BBM is their refutation of that claim:

Connections? But while diversity may naturally include the extremes, the question on many people's minds has been what exactly the relationship is between American Islam and the kind of terror and anti-Americanism that came so horribly into focus last month under the guise of religious zealotry. One moderate American Islamic leader, Sheik Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, told a State Department forum in 1999 that 80 percent of the nation's mosques are headed by clerics who espouse "extremist ideology"--which Kabbani associates with Wahhabism, an Islamic fundamentalist movement that began in Saudi Arabia in the 18th century. But Kabbani, head of the Islamic Supreme Council of America, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group, added that "a majority of American Muslims do not agree" with the extremist ideology.

Other American Muslim leaders say Kabbani's estimate of Wahhabi influence in U.S. mosques is exaggerated. "I don't know where he came up with that," says Ingrid Mattson, a Hartford Seminary professor and vice president of the Islamic Society of North America. African-Americans alone account for a third of the mosques, she notes, "and they clearly are not Wahhabis." The CAIR-Hartford study found that about 20 percent of mosques say they interpret the Koran literally, but 7 in 10 follow a more nuanced, nonfundamentalist approach.


About 20% of mosques "Interpret the Koran literally" -- that's code for "radical." And 7 in 10 "follow a more nuanced, nonfundamentalist approach" -- 7 in 10 are non-radical, meaning 3 in 10 are radical.

So either 20% are radical, or 30%, it's not really clear exactly what they mean there. Clearly, the intent is to claim that either 8 in 10 or 7 in 10 are "non radical" -- that means (reading between the lines of a leftist group) that 2 in 10 or 3 in 10 are, indeed, radical -- they interpret the Koran literally and follow a less nuanced, fundamentalist approach.

This is what a leftist group admits to.

ETA: With over 2,000 mosques in the US, that works out to about 300-400. (rough estimates here)

Edited to correct: that's about 420 to 630, not 300-400. (20%-30% of 2,100 US mosques)

 

[bluesneakers]

He was a terrorist. I think that is first and foremost. He himself said isis. I also think he was gay and in some crazy way he thought by targeting them he was erasing his sins. Imo

I agree with what you said, but I think he was destroying his sins or the part of himself he most hated.

JMO

 

[SweetT]

What good would a provided gun in Saudi Arabia do for him in the US? He was only there some 18 days both trips combined. Not like he was going to fly back with it.

That's not what I meant..I just meant there was no need for a gun back then if he wasn't planning at that time to attack anyone..just training up to do so etc. Just a guess and DUH . It would have been stupid forhim to raise any more red flags then he already had going on.

 

[1&2&3]

From comments above and what I've read elsewhere, my visual picture is he went inside, started shooting, the security officer came in and returned fire to him. He ran into the bathroom where men had run to hide and he started shooting them?
There were about 30 people in the bathroom, how many got out alive?

If the above is anywhere close to accurate, I would call him a coward!! What mass murderer runs and hides?

My opinions only.

 

[tehcloser]

Sure. They try to hide it, because, as has already been pointed out, Media Matters is a left-leaning progressive group, so they don't actually want to admit to radical Islam or to the presence of radical mosques in the US.

The link provided by nomoresorrow is an article intended to debunk the claim (a claim NOT made by Dolly, BTW) that 80% (or 85%) of all mosques are radical (or "have extreme leadership"). That's the focus -- they want to disprove someone's claim that 80% or 85% of mosques are radical.

So you scroll past all the smoke-and-mirrors nice-nice talk to the end where they write this. Pay attention to the part BBM. In the first paragraph below, the BBM is the claim they're debunking, and in the second paragraph below the BBM is their refutation of that claim:

Connections? But while diversity may naturally include the extremes, the question on many people's minds has been what exactly the relationship is between American Islam and the kind of terror and anti-Americanism that came so horribly into focus last month under the guise of religious zealotry. One moderate American Islamic leader, Sheik Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, told a State Department forum in 1999 that 80 percent of the nation's mosques are headed by clerics who espouse "extremist ideology"--which Kabbani associates with Wahhabism, an Islamic fundamentalist movement that began in Saudi Arabia in the 18th century. But Kabbani, head of the Islamic Supreme Council of America, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group, added that "a majority of American Muslims do not agree" with the extremist ideology.

Other American Muslim leaders say Kabbani's estimate of Wahhabi influence in U.S. mosques is exaggerated. "I don't know where he came up with that," says Ingrid Mattson, a Hartford Seminary professor and vice president of the Islamic Society of North America. African-Americans alone account for a third of the mosques, she notes, "and they clearly are not Wahhabis." The CAIR-Hartford study found that about 20 percent of mosques say they interpret the Koran literally, but 7 in 10 follow a more nuanced, nonfundamentalist approach.


About 20% of mosques "Interpret the Koran literally" -- that's code for "radical." And 7 in 10 "follow a more nuanced, nonfundamentalist approach" -- 7 in 10 are non-radical, meaning 3 in 10 are radical.

So either 20% are radical, or 30%, it's not really clear exactly what they mean there. Clearly, the intent is to claim that either 8 in 10 or 7 in 10 are "non radical" -- that means (reading between the lines of a leftist group) that 2 in 10 or 3 in 10 are, indeed, radical -- they interpret the Koran literally and follow a less nuanced, fundamentalist approach.

This is what a leftist group admits to.

ETA: With over 2,000 mosques in the US, that works out to about 300-400. (rough estimates here)

I see what the problem is. I was looking at the US today link. And your were talking about the other artical. Lol. It might help if I was looking at the same one. Lololo my bad.

 

[sonjay]

From comments above and what I've read elsewhere, my visual picture is he went inside, started shooting, the security officer came in and returned fire to him. He ran into the bathroom where men had run to hide and he started shooting them?
There were about 30 people in the bathroom, how many got out alive?

If the above is anywhere close to accurate, I would call him a coward!! What mass murderer runs and hides?

My opinions only.

My opinion, and my opinion only -- most, quite possibly all, mass murderers are cowards at heart. When someone shoots back, they'll kill themselves or run and hide.

 

[barcode]

That's not what I meant..I just meant there was no need for a gun back then if he wasn't planning at that time to attack anyone..just training up to do so etc. Just a guess and DUH . It would have been stupid forhim to raise any more red flags then he already had going on.

Well I meant if he was so radicalized BACK then, I think he would have had more guns etc, if there is a will there is a way, not hard to have someone else purchase them like the San Bernardino one did. Somehow I do not envision him being that patient to wait several years and bingo two weeks ago is his time.

 

[Everyday Grace]

The FBI says it is using those powers as aggressively as it can, and current and former officials warn about the erosion of core freedoms in the face of fear, while civil libertarians say the bureau has already gone too far. But some veterans of the FBI say too many restrictions remain. Under the latest investigative guidelines, “the FBI has been given more power in theory,” says Tim Murphy, who was the FBI deputy director from 2010 to 2011, “But it’s more restrictive in practice.”

Former senior officials disagree about whether the FBI could have done more. Murphy, the FBI’s former number two who worked with then-FBI general counsel Valerie Caproni in revising the bureau’s investigative guidelines, says they discourage agents from monitoring potential terrorists over the long-term. Those guidelines retained the requirement that any preliminary investigation that did not produce evidence of a crime must be closed after six months. “Someone should have been monitoring [Mateen’s] social media 24/7,” Murphy says. “but under the guidelines that is not allowed,” he says. Murphy says the bureau should also have been alerted when Mateen bought weapons.

http://time.com/4368439/orlando-sho...tigation-dropped/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter

The article provides some clarification on what the FBI could and could not do under the current guidelines.

Room for improvement?

 

[sonjay]

Well I meant if he was so radicalized BACK then, I think he would have had more guns etc, if there is a will there is a way, not hard to have someone else purchase them like the San Bernardino one did.

We know -- or at least, I think we know -- that he had 2 guns with him at the shooting. Do we know how many he had that he didn't have with him? Do we know how many he has owned in the past? I'm asking seriously; maybe we do know and I missed it. But I don't think we know that yet.

 

[sonjay]

http://time.com/4368439/orlando-sho...tigation-dropped/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter

The article provides some clarification on what the FBI could and could not do under the current guidelines.

Room for improvement?

Does anyone know where those guidelines came from?

 

[rsd1200]

He had three hours- hiding in the bathroom

If it was him, logging into FB, after he's just slaughtered, and critically wounded, all of those people, that speaks even more to someone mentally unhinged. That's something one would do while waiting in line for a Big Mac. Hmm, let's see how many "Likes" that pic of my puppy got this morning.

 

[LinasK]

If it was him, logging into FB, after he's just slaughtered, and critically wounded, all of those people, that speaks even more to someone mentally unhinged. That's something one would do while waiting in line for a Big Mac. Hmm, let's see how many "Likes" that pic of my puppy got this morning.

Or posting final messages, pictures like the gunman that killed the anchorwoman and cameraman on camera in Virginia.

 

[Magdalyn]

Does anyone know where those guidelines came from?

Is this what you're asking?

https://vault.fbi.gov/FBI Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide (DIOG)

The FBI’s Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide (DIOG) was revised and updated based on comments and feedback received since the original DIOG was issued on December 16, 2008. This new version was approved by Director Mueller on October 15, 2011.