FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #5

[oceanblueeyes]

The thing that pops into my mind is to protect themselves. All of this information and they just turned a blind eye. The more that is known and public makes us wonder HOW ON EARTH he just constantly kept being cleared and cleared over and over again.

That is what it makes me think, anyway. And I have to say I do believe that illegals and foreign residents are given a pass and seem to have rights that we don't have because it's politically correct. If it had been a born American they would have been watched way more intently and charged and imprisoned faster. Profiling has become this monster that is killing us. IMO

But isn't it Florida who is wanting to seal this up tight? I could understand somewhat if it was the FBI since they had investigated him twice.

He was American born and was born in New York but he never considered himself one of us. He has made that abundantly clear.

I totally agree though that some are treated far differently based on what religion they may be. Especially in the last 6-7 years. Some they have no qualms crushing them in the ground if they aren't from the protected group and others they will protect.

 

[Renee110]

Patience Carter spoke at a televised news conference at the hospital.

Orlando survivor: Gunman tried to spare black people
CBS News June 14, 2016

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-survivor-patience-carter-gunman-tried-to-spare-black-people/

“Carter described a bloody scene in the bathroom of Pulse nightclub, where survivors had sought refuge from the rampage that started out in the club, only to find themselves locked in with Mateen just before police breached a wall to get at him.

As she was lying on the floor looking over the "piles" of bloody bodies in the bathroom, she said she "made peace with God and within myself."

Carter said she asked God to take her away so the pain would stop.

After a while, police began shouting warnings to survivors to move away from the bathroom walls so they could blow them open, Carter said the gunman carefully executed a final three people, including a stranger who was shielding her.

"If it wasn't for that person shielding me it would've been me shot and I wouldn't be sitting here today," Carter said.

After the breach, she said the firefight was terrifying, and the explosives broke the pipes in the walls, sending water flooding into the bathroom. Carter said she was afraid of drowning "in bloody water," as police attempted to clear the room of any remaining danger.

While some have questioned the police decisions that night, Carter said she did not based on what she heard him saying, adding: "He wasn't going to stop killing people till he was killed."“​

Exactly this. The police didn't have much of a choice. There was no win-win situation here.

God Bless the police, FBI and anyone else that have to make these type of decisions and carry them out.

Like that saying.... unless you have walked in my shoes..... no judging here.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

We just downsized from a big home that we had when our kids still lived with us. We sold it and got a very small cottage type house.Had to get rid of all of our furniture for the move. My husband had very little input with our new furnishings. LOL My daughter and I went to Living Spaces and bought what was on sale. Husband came home from work and said 'good job.' He had very little control over what couches, coffee table and rug we chose.

Maybe his wife chose the furnishings. No one has said she was an extremist, AFAIK.

He already had the FBI breathing down his neck twice. He sure wouldn't want to fix his home up as a shrine to ISIS and other terrorist groups that he so much admired. He would want his home to 'appear' like he and his wife were the all American family. He never knew when the FBI would show up again.

 

[CARIIS]

BBM
Nope, not at all. I would assume his wife and/or mother accepted the gifts knowing that he was going to do what he did, and that is what further ensured their silence. Maybe they wanted things to sell after he died, who knows.

BBM
ITA. I'm also not sure why people are so concerned with victims dying or being further injured by police. I'm pretty sure as OM and the hostages were emerging from the hole in the wall police were checking for a visible gun and making sure the person was OM before firing. These are trained professionals, not random confused people attempting a rescue. They knew what to look for, they are not just going to shoot right away at anything appearing in that hole. They don't shoot unless they know they are going to hit their intended target.

It is always possible in stand-offs that innocent people will be injured by police, but I think it's unlikely a huge number were victims of friendly fire in this case.

My question would be this -- why are people so concerned about the friendly fire aspect of this case when so far we've got zero evidence of it? Would it be less painful for a family that has lost a loved one in the Pulse tragedy to know they were shot four times by Mateen and one time by friendly fire? Their family member would still be deceased due to the Pulse shooting. If friendly fire was an issue, it will come out eventually. I'm going to save all my outrage for the actual shooter that committed this evil crime, not the ones that may or may not have accidentally injured someone while they attempted to stop the deadliest mass shooter in US history.

OT, but how do you submit missing or unidentified here? I posted in the questions section but nobody ever replied. Thanks to anyone that can answer.

Historically IMO it changesthe death toll. I think we would be astounded at how many died by friendly fire. No judgment - but the truth is the truth. On the two videos the amount of bullets flying around are stunning.
Surrounding the Breach I counted like 23 misses- thats more than 10% of the 202 they claim was fired by both him and LE

There is another clip

Finale barrage at around 2:10

At 12:40 cop says no ambulaence will be coming ??

 

[CARIIS]

[video=youtube;q0X7nmp5wb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0X7nmp5wb4[/video]

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Let me ask a question please to anyone who will answer. TIA

When the two CA Islamic terrorists murdered and shot their victims were the 911 calls released in that horrific case?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Historically IMO it changesthe death toll. I think we would be astounded at how many died by friendly fire. No judgment - but the truth is the truth. On the two videos the amount of bullets flying around are stunning.
Surrounding the Breach I counted like 23 misses- thats more than 10% of the 202 they claim was fired by both him and LE

There is another clip

Finale barrage at around 2:10

At 12:40 cop says no ambulaence will be coming ??

I think its just speculation to imply some of the victims died by friendly fire when there is no basis, such as evidence to support that assumption.

I haven't seen any of the victims nor witnesses who were that weren't hit say victims were being hit by friendly fire. I do know in wars overseas there are friendly fire casualties but it still isn't a common occurrence overseas either.

Those who went in are sniper shooters which are excellent trained marksmen.

How many cases in the US where a hostage situation was ongoing that victims died from friendly fire since you believe it is an astounding amount?. What cases were those? tia I know it occasionally happens if the suspect suddenly grabs one of the victims to shield their own sorry hide.

 

[Renee110]

But isn't it Florida who is wanting to seal this up tight? I could understand somewhat if it was the FBI since they had investigated him twice.

He was American born and was born in New York but he never considered himself one of us. He has made that abundantly clear.

I totally agree though that some are treated far differently based on what religion they may be. Especially in the last 6-7 years. Some they have no qualms crushing them in the ground if they aren't from the protected group and others they will protect.

BBM

Yes, he was born here, but to parents that are Muslim and his father apparently had youtube videos that favored his faith. The complaints against him were extremist Muslim related... which in my book makes this a Muslim investigation...even though he was born here. So from what I have heard from interviews from a former NY FBI director... that was/is off limits. They weren't/aren't allowed to "sniff around" Muslim anything. Those aren't my words... they come from him in a televised interview.

My mother was born in Oklahoma... but her parents were working in Mexico when my Grandmother was pregnant. They rushed into OK when she went into labor so mom could be born in OK in the US. If Grandmother had not made it back and my mother had been born in Mexico.. that would not have made her Mexican or made her loyal to Mexico.

Mateen's parent's were/are loyal to their born country and they believe in their Islamic beliefs, customs etc.... Just because he was born here does not make him American. I believe he was raised to believe something else and revere something else....

And no, I don't believe it was Florida that wanted this sealed up tight. IMO. It was the federal government. The Florida governor etc is republican and he has been outspoken on what he thinks. IMO.

This post respects all political and religious beliefs. I pick no fights with anyone. Just having my say. My belief is everyone has a say and should be able to without being belittled or attacked or dismissed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It wouldn't change the death toll one bit. If he had lived he would be charged with every death and all of those that were injured.

The suspect is fully responsible for all deaths that happen since they are the ones who put this in motion by doing felony murder and felony kidnapping.

I saw a story the other day about someone having a heart attack and dying when a home invader came into their home. He was charged with felony murder because he was in the middle of felony armed robbery when she died.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

Yes, he was born here, but to parents that are Muslim and his father apparently had youtube videos that favored his faith. The complaints against him were extremist Muslim related... which in my book makes this a Muslim investigation...even though he was born here. So from what I have heard from interviews from a former NY FBI director... that was/is off limits. They weren't/aren't allowed to "sniff around" Muslim anything. Those aren't my words... they come from him in a televised interview.

My mother was born in Oklahoma... but her parents were working in Mexico when my Grandmother was pregnant. They rushed into OK when she went into labor so mom could be born in OK in the US. If Grandmother had not made it back and my mother had been born in Mexico.. that would not have made her Mexican or made her loyal to Mexico.

Mateen's parent's were/are loyal to their born country and they believe in their Islamic beliefs, customs etc.... Just because he was born here does not make him American. I believe he was raised to believe something else and revere something else....

And no, I don't believe it was Florida that wanted this sealed up tight. IMO. It was the federal government. The Florida governor etc is republican and he has been outspoken on what he thinks. IMO.

This post respects all political and religious beliefs. I pick no fights with anyone. Just having my say. My belief is everyone has a say and should be able to without being belittled or attacked or dismissed.

Oh I understand what you are saying. Sorry I didn't fully pick up on the last post. Tired.

I have the same opinion and totally agree. I really like it so much that we can debate back and forth with everyone here and do it civilly. That has always been one of the best things about WS among many other best things. LOL!

 

[GeeEm]

I wanna hear the negiations, today was info all of us here at WS found by day three!

Negotiations? Not sure if I am following you when you stated "was info all of us here at WS found by day three?" I'm confused lol

Thanks

 

[Renee110]

Let me ask a question please to anyone who will answer. TIA

When the two CA Islamic terrorists murdered and shot their victims were the 911 calls released in that horrific case?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/vide...ino-mass-shooting-911-dispatch-call-released/

http://graphics.latimes.com/san-bernardino-police-dispatch/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bernardino-shooter-gun-massacre-neighbor-911-call/story?id=35829971

http://www.fox9.com/news/56999819-story

 

[human]

[video=youtube;q0X7nmp5wb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0X7nmp5wb4[/video]

Amazing person

 

[Renee110]

I no longer live in the US but I refer to where I live now as my country. But I do not feel it in my heart as I do not speak the language, will never be part of the culture, and I am white and my " country" is not white. People are totally wonderful to us. And I feel a real connection with it although I will never be a real part of it.

So I feel you can care about more than one place.

I think he was a total mess, but people in the Middle East have parents, children, etc. They have a lot of feelings about having their children killed and maimed and mothers and fathers, etc destroyed. Just as we feel anger and loss, they do as well.

I don't think OM really cared about people at all because he was violent to all kinds of people. So I doubt that " his country" meant anything to him.

He suffered at the hands of his parents and his classmates. Do not think I am excusing him. But when are we going to stop treating children the way we do? Monsters are created.

BBM

Not all monsters are created. My dad owns a big huge company that you would know if I named it.

The owners of this company send kids to college that are from the projects etc...

They have letters written to them from these kids... that thank them etc...

Kids that were born to drug addicted, non-working, on welfare career parents.. that are in and out of jail etc...

These kids were determined to make it. To work hard studying and making good grades despite where they came from. When people usually give up and don't help because they come from bad conditions.... yet they are doctors and lawyers now.

And one of my dad's partners.... who is a millionaire, well educated, sent his kids to private school etc... one of his son's killed someone... it was horrible. Some say he was spoiled and had it easy. I say he was just ... wrong. Nothing he had was enough. He didn't care. He chose to do what he did. It was no-one's fault but his. There is just something missing in him. His sister and other brother are fine and successful at what they do.

Sometimes, it's not anyone else's fault or how they were raised.

I'm really afraid that there is someone on here reading that is the parent or sibling to someone that turned out wrong and did something bad and reading that that person was "created" is so wrong. There are some people that are just wired wrong, and the parents did the right things and made the right choices, but to no avail...

Please don't assume that whoever did something horrific did it because they were raised that way or had a horrible upbringing or bad family. It's not that way much of the time.

I'm so sad right now, seeing how some people just rush to judgement and blame innocents that had no idea of what their loved one was thinking or doing.

 

[sonjay]

I wonder if the redaction was publicized now because special forces are prepared to take this guy out like they did with [redacted].

I imagine it may be known where this guy is. And I will not honor him with writing his name.

special forces are prepared to take this guy out like they did with who? I didn't catch that.

 

[human]

special forces are prepared to take this guy out like they did with who? I didn't catch that.

The guy who OM named. I have no idea if they are taking him out or not. I was saying maybe they would take him out like they did with bin Laden

 

[sonjay]

I don't think I said they are downtrodden Whatever.

I am only going by what many have called for in the past and that is to not announce who these shooters are. All mass shooters.

There are many articles written about this. We know the Columbine shooters have been heroes to some. And I wonder if that theatre shooter down south got the idea from the Colorado shooter.

It sure seems like the Orlando shooter wanted attention. FB and texting in the middle of all of this? Calling 911?

I think the [redacted] killers wanted to do more for their revered leader. One even asked to go on the next kill.

To me, if we print the name of the guy who is the inspiration, that gives him validation, If you are no name, you don't even count.

Think of how you feel and you are somewhere and you are not introduced to anyone? It makes you feel like a non entity.

The which killers wanted to do more for their revered leader?

Does naming Manson give him validation?

Why is it okay to name bin Laden.... and Manson.... but we better not name Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?

 

[Renee110]

You know how in other attcks commited by real terrorists, behind closed doors their homes are usually adorned with tons of Muslim stuff. They wear the clothing etc.

This guy was born here - his father is highly American, materialsitic. Go back and look at his house )even Bible folks have Christ on the wall or a bible etc.

Even the colors on the wall are different. Prayer matts and stuff all over the place. Extremeists.


His apt was wildly western. The Star Wars thing in two rooms blew my mind- the kid is like three, I dont think he knows Star Wars - this is OM IMO stuff.

If Star Wars the motion picture is not Western .........................Can we imagine the Paris bombers "guarding " a courhouse here in AMerica- that in and of itelf would be abhorent to a real terrorist.

moo

THey were very acclimated and assimilated on all levels imo. OM apt was materialistic, the amount of toys purchased was so American!

Go back and look at the pics of other terrorists place of residecne --the differences are stark

his home had two remote books relating to the religion. There are muslim grocery stores -- his had 5 different types of amerian branded cerials!!

Seeing the home was very telling to me

If this is not Western, capitlaistic I do not know what is!

[video=youtube;kGPpltvEGkg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGPpltvEGkg[/video]

Mulling over what he managed to accomplish...IMO he WAS a real terrorist.

Would you please provide a link to the rules that terrorists adhere to? The clothing, food choice etc... I've googled that and haven't ' been able to find that information. Or is there a book? A Terrorist For Dummies book....

 

[sonjay]

Patience Carter spoke at a televised news conference at the hospital.

Orlando survivor: Gunman tried to spare black people
CBS News June 14, 2016

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-survivor-patience-carter-gunman-tried-to-spare-black-people/

“Carter described a bloody scene in the bathroom of Pulse nightclub, where survivors had sought refuge from the rampage that started out in the club, only to find themselves locked in with Mateen just before police breached a wall to get at him.

As she was lying on the floor looking over the "piles" of bloody bodies in the bathroom, she said she "made peace with God and within myself."

Carter said she asked God to take her away so the pain would stop.

After a while, police began shouting warnings to survivors to move away from the bathroom walls so they could blow them open, Carter said the gunman carefully executed a final three people, including a stranger who was shielding her.

"If it wasn't for that person shielding me it would've been me shot and I wouldn't be sitting here today," Carter said.

After the breach, she said the firefight was terrifying, and the explosives broke the pipes in the walls, sending water flooding into the bathroom. Carter said she was afraid of drowning "in bloody water," as police attempted to clear the room of any remaining danger.

While some have questioned the police decisions that night, Carter said she did not based on what she heard him saying, adding: "He wasn't going to stop killing people till he was killed."“
​

What a terrifying, horrible experience.

Sadly, that last statement is what we're so often up against.

 

[human]

BBM

Not all monsters are created. My dad owns a big huge company that you would know if I named it.

The owners of this company send kids to college that are from the projects etc...

They have letters written to them from these kids... that thank them etc...

Kids that were born to drug addicted, non-working, on welfare career parents.. that are in and out of jail etc...

These kids were determined to make it. To work hard studying and making good grades despite where they came from. When people usually give up and don't help because they come from bad conditions.... yet they are doctors and lawyers now.

And one of my dad's partners.... who is a millionaire, well educated, sent his kids to private school etc... one of his son's killed someone... it was horrible. Some say he was spoiled and had it easy. I say he was just ... wrong. Nothing he had was enough. He didn't care. He chose to do what he did. It was no-one's fault but his. There is just something missing in him. His sister and other brother are fine and successful at what they do.

Sometimes, it's not anyone else's fault or how they were raised.

I'm really afraid that there is someone on here reading that is the parent or sibling to someone that turned out wrong and did something bad and reading that that person was "created" is so wrong. There are some people that are just wired wrong, and the parents did the right things and made the right choices, but to no avail...

Please don't assume that whoever did something horrific did it because they were raised that way or had a horrible upbringing or bad family. It's not that way much of the time.

I'm so sad right now, seeing how some people just rush to judgement and blame innocents that had no idea of what their loved one was thinking or doing.

Yes, there could be some kind of brain issue. People become schizophrenic through no fault of their own.

We do not know what happens in a family unless we are inside that family.

No matter what, we need to treat children differently in school. Punishment and shame do not work .

Boys are often rambunctious and made to sit. Most teachers are female and we are more prone to want kids to sit and listen. But schools now have those balls for kids to sit on or they have mats that had little stick up things that stimulate or kids can squeeze thngs to get rid of anxiety.

There is a lot of brain research with scans that show what happens to the brain when kids are under stress.

Why not try positive things with all kids? All kids can use it.I believe it would change our world.

We all make mistakes as parents. As a teacher, in the beginning it was all about control and order.

Then we got training on how to deal with children and their emotions. What a wonderful wonderful gift that was to me and to my students. I am sick about some of the things I did as a beginning teacher using the control model. I know that is so wrong after learning and using the new model of working with students to handle their emotions and anger and their need to move.