FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #5

[CARIIS]

'that does not make him automatically American. Just because you are born in a specific country does not mean you believe in that country's beliefs... especially if your parents are teaching you something different.

Media has completly mislead the world. Dad's issues had nothing to do with America. Nothing.

Dads Tv show, was about dads hatred for the way Pakiistan is interacting with Afganastan. Hosting in wis dashingly western coat ,tie,and handerchief in pocket, he is carrying on about Pakistan.

He is not doing ANY anti American stuff. None

Titles of some of his shows:

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][h=1]End of Pakistan killing on American soldier & Afghan ( 4.4.2015 Part 2 of 3 )[/h]
[h=1]Rise Afghan people against Pakistan ( 4.6.2015 Part 1 of 4 )[/h]
[h=1]Intelligent service and Military of Pakistan real Enemy of the USA[/h]



[h=1]Mateen Proposal for solving Taliban issue in Afghanistan 8.24.13 ( Part 3 of 3 )[/h]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5MBQ9UhS01swTh860m_tvQ/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=1&view=0[h=1]Durand Jirga takes Pakistan to International Criminal Court ( 9.13.14 Part 1 of 3 )[/h]

 

[Tony1902]

No, not at all. I would never believe anything coming from Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, or Bolivia anyway. jmo

I'd add El Salvador, Honduras & Guatemala to that list. Nutters everywhere, lived there for a few years as a child. Drama, so much drama, full of lies, half-lies, just a smattering of truth anywhere.

 

[CARIIS]

he was chunky !

 

[CARIIS]

Yes, it seems we missed the opportunity once again to stop this radical terrorist due to the FBI not having enough manpower/ funds or additional surveillance tools needed. Even FBI Director Comey believes this radical terrorist could have been stopped before he cut down over a hundred innocent people. Imo, he is admitting their investigations both times of Mateen weren't thorough enough allowing him to slip through the cracks.

It may have even helped to stop the two radical Islamic terrorists in CA too if they had been able to do a much more in depth investigation. The female terrorist in that case gave a phony address that didn't even exist to those vetting her to allow her to enter the states but they never even verified it. All they had to do was Google it and see it was an empty lot. There is a lot we must do differently.

So there are a lot of things that can and must be done differently. 1) truly vetting everyone thoroughly who is wanting to enter our country. 2) our government must keep track of all of these refugees instead of telling congress they have no clue where thousands of them are. 3) more funds, agents and tools must be given to all investigating agencies in order to find those with Islamic radical extremist views. 4) Stop pretending that all Muslims in our country are peaceful and perfect people 4) Send in undercover cops to infiltrate certain Mosques if they are picking up evidence that the Imams of those particular Mosques may be teaching radical Islamic beliefs to their members. 5) Loretta Lynch needs to come forth and assure the American people they will be fully protected if and when they report to the police if they know of any Muslim/s who are advocating violence and hatred against any of us or a certain chosen group. 6) hire more internet savvy investigators to monitor the internet for hate speeches/death threats against Americans and those in the free world.

Two Islamic terrorists came from the same Mosque, one a suicide bomber and the mass shooter, Mateen. That is no coincidence.

"This was the No. 1 legislative priority of the FBI according to James Comey, and those sort of additional surveillance tools could have provided the FBI more information, which would have allowed them to identify this guy as the threat that he obviously was," Comey said.

FBI Director James Comey said. If agents “don’t see predication for continuing it, then we close it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/17/the-fbi-was-right-not-to-arrest-omar-mateen-before-the-shooting/

 

[CARIIS]

From the guy : NSA reporting that won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for the Guardian

What plausible theory exists for empowering the government to restrict the actions, rights or liberty of a citizen who has broken no laws?

...... a successful attack becomes proof that something went wrong, law enforcement failed to act properly and more government authorities are needed. prevent terrorist attacks.”

This is wrong, and based on what we know, the FBI acted properly. Agents have the power they need, and they were right to close the case on Mateen. Just because someone successfully carried out a violent mass attack does not prove that police powers were inadequate or that existing powers were misapplied.

No minimally free society can prevent all violence. In the United States, we do not hold suspects for crimes they have not committed.

* * * * * *​

It is possible, indeed probable, that violent attacks will occur even with superb law enforcement. This is the tradeoff we make for liberty.

g By all accounts, Mateen had committed no crime (though his ex-wife later said he had battered her). At the time the FBI decided to close its file on him, he had not joined any terrorist organization, nor attended a terror training camp, nor communicated with terror operatives about any plots.

Although he boasted to office colleagues about ties to al Qaeda and Hezbollah, agents found those claims dubious.
When the FBI has reason to suspect someone of extremist activity, they open an investigative file and gather whatever information they can. But once they conclude that there is no evidence of criminality, they close the file.

That’s how it should be......without evidence of lawbreaking, and we should certainly not want punishments meted out based on unproven suspicions. The FBI followed these principles in closing its file on Mateen,

Encouraging law enforcement agencies to take action against citizens who are not even charged with, let alone convicted of, breaking the law is inherently abusive, and certain to lead to its own serious injuries.

terror attacks induce an abandonment of reasoned analysis.

* * * * *
​

If you are a resident of any western country, it is more likely that you will die from a lightning strike than from a terrorist attack perpetrated by a Muslim.

include 9/11, the total death toll from terrorism amounts to less than one per cent of the death toll from gun violence.”

It is obviously unfortunate that nobody was able to stop Mateen, but that does not mean the FBI could or should have.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ot-to-arrest-omar-mateen-before-the-shooting/

 

[CARIIS]

There was information contained in the release that was new to me either in its specificity or official confirmation.

That said, I have found it more productive for me to separate the substance of what is in the release from any and all of the brouhaha about the redactions.

I spent some time yesterday (and plan to continue today) considering the content contained in the release. No point in me going any further into what I did with that information within any context of the brouhaha.

Speaking only for myself, any further focus on the brouhaha issues is an energy sink.

-30-

Jounalsim background? I noticed the 30!!

 

[bluesneakers]

If you are a resident of any western country, it is more likely that you will die from a lightning strike than from a terrorist attack perpetrated by a Muslim.

include 9/11, the total death toll from terrorism amounts to less than one per cent of the death toll from gun violence.”
[/FONT][/COLOR]
It is obviously unfortunate that nobody was able to stop Mateen, but that does not mean the FBI could or should have.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ot-to-arrest-omar-mateen-before-the-shooting/

rsbm

bbm 1:
It's easy to forget that. It doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on fighting terror or stopping attacks and I don't mean to minimize the deaths, but putting them in perspective, imo, helps keep us from becoming the trembling victims ISIS etc. want us to become.

They were right not to arrest him, so what could have been done? Was there really nothing anyone could see? How do we stop the next Mateen? I don't even mean the next homegrown terrorist to attack - I mean the next one who slips by despite behaving violently and suspiciously? The one who is found to be safe and trustworthy until the moment he kills 50 people?

 

[Everyday Grace]

But didn't he mention Syria and Afghanistan? Which one was his?

Yesterday's release provided official confirmation that he mentioned Syria and Iraq.

It also provides us with some clarity that he made a statement to that regard during one of the calls with a negotiator rather than in his initial contact with 911.

...[Mateen] told the negotiator to tell America to stop bombing Syria and Iraq and that is why he was “out here right now.”

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi....ive-update-regarding-pulse-nightclub-shooting

I've seen reporting (and comments) that he meant Afghanistan when it was reported that he wanted the US to stop bombing "his country."

IMO, yesterday's release confirms that it was Syria and Iraq he mentioned in that context, not Afghanistan.

Whether he ever specifically mentioned Afghanistan during any of the calls is something I think is still unconfirmed -- IMO. JMO. MOO.

Syria and Iraq are consistent with an ISIS influence, regardless of whether that influence was by "self-radicalization," direct contact, or a hybrid of both.

 

[drjones]

i believe early on there was some discussion regarding how he could have brought the guns into the club, while i think it has been established that he did not "sneak" them in, this video is still educational;

[video=youtube;gllJBpukGXA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gllJBpukGXA[/video]

 

[0101ABA]

The Orlando gunman went to the Pulse nightclub earlier Saturday night and then left before returning to carry out his attack as the gay club prepared to close early Sunday morning, law enforcement officials say.

The gunman paid the entry fee, obtained a wrist band, and entered the club, the officials said. Investigators believe he may have been checking the club security. (...) they are still working to determine what he was doing for a two-hour period between when he left the club and returned.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/polit...-mateen-pulse-nightclub-noor-salman-new-info/

 

[Everyday Grace]

Something specifically new to me in yesterday's release (BBM):

In these calls [with OPD Crisis Negotiation Team], the shooter, who identified himself as an Islamic soldier....

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi....ive-update-regarding-pulse-nightclub-shooting

For me, this is additional confirmation that Mateen had incorporated a significant amount of the ISIS dogma he had consumed into his psyche.

(Self-edited to remove a comment that is too broad in the context of discussion about the Orlando event.)

 

[popsicle]

he was chunky !

He was on steroids and working out.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/polit...-mateen-pulse-nightclub-noor-salman-new-info/

The day before, he had bought three plane tickets for him, his wife, Noor Salman, and child to travel from West Palm Beach to San Francisco in July. Investigators don't know why, if he was planning an attack, he made travel plans.

 

[bluesneakers]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/polit...-mateen-pulse-nightclub-noor-salman-new-info/

The day before, he had bought three plane tickets for him, his wife, Noor Salman, and child to travel from West Palm Beach to San Francisco in July. Investigators don't know why, if he was planning an attack, he made travel plans.

This is so weird. Any chance he thought he would survive the Pulse shooting? Did he have two plans?

 

[human]

Interesting. There was a hue and cry about govt spying re Obama. Big govt and all.

Now we are going for more spying. Interesting how one day groups think it is big govt infringing now the same people are excited about it.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Z7056

 

[CARIIS]

AG gonna speak soon

http://www.msnbc.com/live-online/watch/live-lynch-comments-on-nightclub-shooting-709806147531

 

[Everyday Grace]

Interesting. There was a hue and cry about govt spying re Obama. Big govt and all.

Now we are going for more spying. Interesting how one day groups think it is big govt infringing now the same people are excited about it.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Z7056

A bit of expansion on what the amendment to the appropriations legislation would change:

Now, at the FBI’s request, some lawmakers are advancing legislation that would allow the bureau to obtain “electronic communication transactional records” using an administrative subpoena known as a national security letter. An NSL can be issued by the special agent in charge of a bureau field office without a judge’s approval.

Such records may include a person’s Internet protocol address and how much time a person spends on a given site. But they don’t include content, such as the text of an e-mail or Google search queries. There’s also a limit to how much visibility the bureau would have into which part of a website a person had visited. For instance, according to the bureau, if the person went to any part of The Washington Post’s website, law enforcement would see only washingtonpost.com — nothing more specific.

Comey said that making this change to the law is the bureau’s top legislative priority this year.

The inability to obtain the data with an NSL “affects our work in a very, very big and practical way,” he told the Senate Intelligence Committee in February.

More at the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...257328-2c0d-11e6-9de3-6e6e7a14000c_story.html

Note that this proposal pre-dates Orlando. As the Reuters article indicates, though, this issue is considered to be relevant to Orlando.

In fairness, through the years of debate on how far to go regarding electronic communication privacy issues, objections to this specific proposal and others can come from both the right and left of the political spectrum.

I expect it may come to pass this time.

 

[alas]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/polit...-mateen-pulse-nightclub-noor-salman-new-info/

The day before, he had bought three plane tickets for him, his wife, Noor Salman, and child to travel from West Palm Beach to San Francisco in July. Investigators don't know why, if he was planning an attack, he made travel plans.

There are several bits of new information in this article, for me anyway. (take it for what its worth)
1. He left the club then came back two hours later? This is the first I have heard of him being gone for two hours. What was he doing?
2. He was angry when he left his home that day, heading for Orlando. Did something happen at work or with his father or wife? This maybe what took him over the edge.
3. The plane tickets he bought. Obviously he expected to be alive. (I believe I read that the wife's family lives in CA, so the destination doesn't raise any flags, imo)

I need to ponder this. What are your thoughts?

 

[Jax49]

There are several bits of new information in this article, for me anyway. (take it for what its worth)
1. He left the club then came back two hours later? This is the first I have heard of him being gone for two hours. What was he doing?
2. He was angry when he left his home that day, heading for Orlando. Did something happen at work or with his father or wife? This maybe what took him over the edge.
3. The plane tickets he bought. Obviously he expected to be alive. (I believe I read that the wife's family lives in CA, so the destination doesn't raise any flags, imo)

I need to ponder this. What are your thoughts?

BBM, I believe I heard on CNN that her mother had surgery and wasn't feeling well, so the tickets were supposed to be to visit her. IMHO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think the FBI suffered from PC and hands tied syndrome. As was the DHS.

No matter what the FBI says now to save face the truth is they did drop the ball but Mateen sure didn't drop his fanatical Islamic extremist views or we wouldn't have 49 people murdered and 53 wounded by him. The FBI wasn't investigating him twice for being gay. They had suspicions he was a radical Muslim and even though they dropped the ball.......they were right to begin with. I don't think he was even gay. He seemed to have been sex crazed about females even stalking one for an entire year. It was a front he used in order to infiltrate a group of people he planned to target so they would let their guard down. Even then he couldn't mimic how other gay men act and that is why he was always so goofy and uncomfortable pretending to be one. He was a fish out of water, imo.

If they had only thoroughly checked out the actual complex relationship he had with the suicide bomber who came from the same Mosque.... instead of doing a cursory investigation into that part alone they may have been able to infiltrate this Mosque to see if anyone else there seemed to side with the terrorists instead of who they slaughter.

It is shameful that they now come forward saying things should have been checked out further in greater detail. They now realize the relationship with a terrorist suicide bomber was much more involved than they first thought. Ugh.... A little too late and if I was the surviving victims or their family members I would be livid. They had a chance to find all this out beforehand and not after 100 innocent people were on the floor in pools of blood dying or wounded.

If they had kept up the surveillance on him they would have seen him buying a semi-automatic rifle, and a handgun at the same time. They would have seen him renting a vehicle and they would have seen him most likely taking the guns out to his car the night of the attack. They would have known he was wanting protection body armor even though he was just a security guard who usually carries pepper spray and a tazer as protective weapons. They would have known he all of a sudden put his assets in someone else's name out of the blue. What physically healthy 28 or 29 year old male does that? They would have seen even back in April, imo, he was already in the full planning stage of his terrorist attack by making sure whomever he gave it to didn't have to go through the Probate Court in case of his death. He already knew he was going to shoot it out with the police too so he would become a martyr for the cause to gain the admiration of the ones who were his role models (ISIS AQ terrorists/suicide bombers).

NOW the FBI has said that his relationship with the Islamic radical suicide bomber is more complex than they originally thought. Their investigation is in its infancy but they are going to learn about many things he had done and said in the past few years and a lot of what they will learn could have been learned beforehand if they hadn't dropped surveillance on him. Oh yeah they dropped the ball bigtime.

I think his computer will be a huge filthy petri-dish filled with all of the Islamic hate propaganda he fed into. His history searches will show a man filled with pure raw hatred against all of the infidels and an obessesed admiration for all which is evil which is the Islamic terrorists who does so much destruction of innocent lives all in the name of Allah the same God he did his mass murders for...........

The FBI has some of the best profilers in the world and Marteen fits the profile of an Islamic terrorist lone wolf living here in America. They never should have dropped him from their sights and if they hadn't we wouldn't be mourning the deaths of 49 victims and praying for full recovery of the other 53 that crossed path with evil in the early morning of that horrific day when Omar Mateen came in with full intentions to destroy them all.

IMO