FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #5

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...r-and-muslim-in-the-wake-of-orlando-1.3642696


'Two closets': Coming out as queer and Muslim in the wake of Orlando
How Orlando became a coming out moment born of tragedy for LGBT Muslims

Zayn awoke to the news like so many others: gutted that some 50 people just like him, dancing and laughing moments earlier, were massacred in cold blood. But when the Toronto-area man, who is not only gay but also Muslim, learned that the gunman in the Orlando nightclub had professed his allegiance to ISIS, he says he collapsed in disbelief.

Hours later, still reeling and heartsick, the 27-year-old, who spoke to CBC News on condition that his real name not be used, took to Facebook to express a pain he thought few would understand.

"I want to scream but I feel like I'm in a vacuum," he wrote in a letter shared with friends. "As a gay male and a Muslim, I have never felt so personally affected … So empty and void of all feeling yet full of emotion at the same time."

It was supposed to be a time of love, of celebration, and of peace, he wrote. But instead both Pride month and Ramadan were marred by a single act of hatred.

Samira Mohyeddin knows the "two closets" all too well.

"I think a lot of queer Muslims have either been closeted Muslims or closeted queers at different times in their lives," Mohyeddin, an Iranian-born Muslim lesbian living in Toronto, told CBC News. "We've sort of had to learn to swim with both of these things at once."

But despite many LGBT Muslims having come to terms with their identities privately, Mohyeddin, who works occasionally for CBC Radio, says she was dismayed to hear many around her say after Orlando: 'It doesn't matter that Omar Mateen was Muslim."

To her it matters very much indeed.

"No, we shouldn't as Muslims have to apologize constantly when some nutbar does something. But let's call him out for what he is. He is a Muslim nutbar. Why are we afraid of saying that?

 

[bluesneakers]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...r-and-muslim-in-the-wake-of-orlando-1.3642696
View attachment 97754

'Two closets': Coming out as queer and Muslim in the wake of Orlando
How Orlando became a coming out moment born of tragedy for LGBT Muslims

That's a great article.

More:

It's normally a safe space for those who, like him, identify as LGBT. But that day, Mohamed says he saw a man wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a different kind of hatred.

"It's not Islamophobia. They actually want to kill us," the T-shirt read.

It's that kind of xenophobia that Mohamed worries will run rampant after Orlando. He worries, too, that the larger problem of hate against the LGBT community will be overshadowed by the focus on the shooter's specific beliefs.

"We're talking about two closets," Mohamed said. "There's the closet of coming out as Muslim, which is a scary thing because we live in an Islamophobic world, and then there's the closet of coming out as queer because we live in a homophobic world."

It's long, but well worth the read, and the video of Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam is touching.

 

[katydid23]

More:
It's normally a safe space for those who, like him, identify as LGBT. But that day, Mohamed says he saw a man wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a different kind of hatred.

"It's not Islamophobia. They actually want to kill us," the T-shirt read.

It's that kind of xenophobia that Mohamed worries will run rampant after Orlando. He worries, too, that the larger problem of hate against the LGBT community will be overshadowed by the focus on the shooter's specific beliefs.
"We're talking about two closets," Mohamed said. "There's the closet of coming out as Muslim, which is a scary thing because we live in an Islamophobic world, and then there's the closet of coming out as queer because we live in a homophobic world."
==================================================================================================================================

I have an interesting perhaps unpopular reaction to the comments about Islamaphobia above. Here is why. My niece married her girlfriend last summer. They are both very active in the LGBT community. We went out of state for the weekend to their wedding and spent a lot of time with their friends. I had a great time and it was a beautiful wedding. But one thing that did bother me during the events the days before, the rehearsal dinner etc, was all of the mean, sarcastic comments about religious people, especially Christians. The attitude was absolutely one of painting ALL Christians with a very broad brush, condemning them for homophobia etc. The subject came up a lot because of the imminent decisions about what traditions to keep in the ceremony. So it was an obvious subject to discuss. But I thought it was interesting because the entire group of friends was very active in the LGBT community and focused on educating people about inclusiveness, non-discrimination, being non-judgmental. And yet they were being very judgmental and discriminatory, in my opinion.

So those quotes above, about not wanting people to be Islamophobic because of the recent shootings---do these same people hold Christiani-phobic feelings thinking that ALL Christians have -phobic feelings?

 

[CARIIS]

My goodness! A freind who I shared y post about the experinence last week suggusted I post it on reddit thing. Found it . have no idea what that forums rules and all that are, am quite content right here with you guys, and am not spending time figuring all that stuff out over there.

BUT, when I found the area, I glanced and it seems there sure is a lot of nonsense going on on that thread. It sounds as if a LOT of stuff is being deleted. Dont know if that is common over there, but I could not help but wonder - is all this stuff becasue it relates to homosexuality/ Kinda me pissed off.

Posted it (I think!) but left quickly -sure seems like a ruckus- and really at this point in my life don't wanna spend much time in a space that might be having trouble with gay people!

Maybe it had nothing to do with that ... I came back here and am fine!!!! Hi!

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...r-and-muslim-in-the-wake-of-orlando-1.3642696

'Two closets': Coming out as queer and Muslim in the wake of Orlando
How Orlando became a coming out moment born of tragedy for LGBT Muslims

This struck me on several levels. Being of Jewish faith, from a family system that honors the culture these days, more so than the writings, it occurred to me that in Orthedox Judism I really have no idea if its a bad "thing". I had a terrific coming out.

It was not just to immeiate family - it was the whole gang! Aunts, Uncles, Granparents etc etc - no pushback at all. No pushback from friends/families of anyone who knew me and my family. A nonissue.

As years progressed, when I was married,(in spirit!) my lover and I were invited to family "things" and treated no differently than anyone else in the family system who was in love with another homosapian.

BUT, the story strike me as attempting to say that folks of Muslim faith might have it more difficult? I disagree. Any miniroty before adding sexual orientation to the "mix" has duel complexities. Becasue of my experience I do not really have a "feeling" about being Jewish and gay.

However, my second lover came from super dooper , not sure which one, CHristian, stuff and boy oh boy. They were flat out cruel to Chris, and overtly disdainful of me.

I remember one time, the call was on speaker, it was his birthday, and he asked if I could come with him (over there) and the mother yelled this really loud and l o n g "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"!

In another instance, I was never allowed inside their house, we were going somewhere and he had to drop off something at his parents. Waiting in the car (!) his mother had made him a sandwhich, and he told her I was in the car, and he was gonna make me one too - she refused to let him!!!

It was like to the point that the human sitting in your car does not deserve food!! Jeezzzzzzzz.

I think becasue there are more "Chritians" here in USA, and we have a huge midwest, where the bible is a big deal - there is a tremendous amount of ill will from the bible.

BUT, in the hispanic culture (machismo plus a bible) for the Latino gay male it is very difficult. For Africian AMericans , which are very maternaltic in terms of family systems, it tends to be less of an ordeal. Moo.


Church has a huge role in AA family systems.

I will never forget my mother one day saying to me "you know, I really do not know if it would be different for me if one of your sisters were gay".

Interesting question if you think about it. So, makes me kind of wonder , if, becasue of the maternal angle in the AA family THAT makes it different - possibly in the other direction.

And if one ponders it, (Italian/Hispanic) a very paternal family system, it makes it tough, I cant help wondering if my mothers question was far more telling as it relates to pariental acceptance , of sexuality, if it is the gay son for the father and mother, and/or the gay daughter for the father or mother.

Daddies little girl/Mamas boy that kind of thing?? Dad showing son "male" you know what I am saying!

I would however ponder, that in the AA community where there are fathers activily involved in the family system if it would be more diffiuclt??

Italian systems I would beleive also struggle with gay son, as it relates to role of the male in those cultural dyanamics.

So I am not sure if , in reality , it would be anymore difficult for a person rasied in the Muslim faith, who is gay to make it a "more" difficult experience, if that makes sense.

I do not know if we could really say being a gay person of color , for lack of a better word, is "easier" than being a gay person with Muslim background.

 

[CARIIS]

New York Times: "Even if [Orlando gunman Omar] Mateen had remained on the [FBI's terrorist] watch list, it would not have stopped him from buying a gun. Congress blocked an attempt last year to give the FBI the power to block gun sales to people on terrorism watch lists."

Mateen, pledged allegiance to the so-called Islamic State – but to date, there are no proven links.

This is 21st major mass shooting in the six years... in the US

I thought this was a great analogy--mass shooting -- call it ISIS poof not our responsiblity:

Closer to the Orlando moment is the case a couple of weeks ago, of the rare gorilla that was shot dead at Cincinnati Zoo, to save the life of a child that had found its way into the animal's enclosure. It was human error that left the gap through which the child crawled; but like it or not, the response of the experts was that the animal be killed.

same thing

n the shadow of the greater Orlando tragedy, a lesser but quite horrific one – an alligator snatched a two-year- old boy at a Disney resort a few miles from the city. The child was allowed to be "partly in the water", in which alligators live; and the immediate response by authorities was to hunt and kill five alligators, to establish if any was the culprit – none was.

If we dont focus on why the kid was able to fall in, and or dont focus on the parents decision to allow a toddler to swim in the dark, our remedy is to kill the gorilla, or a bunch of alligators - it is not DOING anything , really. to prevent it from happening again.

Identical to Pulse. As a society we can puff up all about these ISIS terrrists, while ignoring the reality that OMAR was displaying great potential for violence sine he was young. Stay focused on ISIS, and I can promise you a budding mass shooter is marinating somewhere in some school in some part of AMerica.

It occured to me that teachers should be educated on homicial indicators , in conjuction with sucidal warning systems.

Sadly, the airport and restarant, have highlighted what real radical terrorsim looks, and feel like in sharp contrast to Pulse. Yet the myth lingers...............................promising us another mass shooting just around the corner.

It astounds me that the media , despite, far more similarties with the Batman massacre, than the the airport/SanBern events and Pulse -- continue to let the focus point the binnoculars in the wrong direction.

You aint gonna find what ya need if your looking in wrong direction....

moo

http://www.smh.com.au/world/orlando-shooting-just-another-us-massacre-20160615-gpk40l

 

[human]

Teachers need to be trained on positive interventions with kids and how to communicate efffectively with parents.

Talking with parents re kid issues is a difficult thing indeed.

 

[CARIIS]

O/T

This is getting out of control guys

Sadly I just had to start thread

Baghdad Car bombs target shopping districts, 126 dead

[h=2]CNN[/h]

 

[CARIIS]

Perez ran out the back of the club. He hid inside the kitchen of a nearby 7-eleven until police and paramedics showed up

What’s not included in that $385 million? The cost of mental health counseling for people who were in the club but not physically shot – and friends and family of those there. And then there’s the cost of fear: People being afraid to go out to a dance club, or maybe skipping a visit to the theme parks.

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=htt...ulse-nightclub-shooting-estimated-385-million

 

[i.b.nora]

This side story is of interest to me as it continues to unfold, bit by bit:

Witness recounts attack outside Fort Pierce mosque
Palm Beach Post
6:40 p.m. Saturday, July 2, 2016 | Filed in: News

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...an-attacked-outside-fort-pierce-mosque/nrrNp/


FORT PIERCE — “Just days after the state’s largest Muslim civil-rights group asked law-enforcement officials to explain why they’d refused to send extra security to the Fort Pierce mosque linked to Orlando shooter Omar Mateen, the early Saturday attack of a worshipper there has become the basis for what could be a U.S. Department of Justice complaint.”​

 

[bluesneakers]

This side story is of interest to me as it continues to unfold, bit by bit:

Witness recounts attack outside Fort Pierce mosque
Palm Beach Post
6:40 p.m. Saturday, July 2, 2016 | Filed in: News

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...an-attacked-outside-fort-pierce-mosque/nrrNp/


FORT PIERCE — “Just days after the state’s largest Muslim civil-rights group asked law-enforcement officials to explain why they’d refused to send extra security to the Fort Pierce mosque linked to Orlando shooter Omar Mateen, the early Saturday attack of a worshipper there has become the basis for what could be a U.S. Department of Justice complaint.”​

That sheriff sounds like a real winner. The Muslim community there is part of the community he's sworn to protect and serve. The "untruthful rhetoric" comment doesn't help anyone but himself.

 

[wendiesan]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the discussions on these threads. When there is so much violence and fear in our world, coming to Websleuths reminds me of the inherent generosity and genuine concern of the members of this community, and things begin to balance out again. For those below the 49th Parallel, Happy Fourth.

 

[i.b.nora]

Here is a full interview that Greta did with Marcus Robertson:

UNCUT VIDEO: Imam Abu Taubah – The Unedited ‘On the Record’ Interview In Its Entirety

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com...ited-on-the-record-interview-in-its-entirety/

I listened to some, not all.

 

[i.b.nora]

To counter the Greta interview, this article from The Daily Beast:

Was Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Inspired by This Bank-Robbing Ex-Marine?
The Daily Beast
By MICHAEL DALY 06.13.16. 10:15 PM ET

“The one Islamist who has been identified by a senior law enforcement source as a radicalizing influence on mass murderer Omar Mateen is presently at liberty despite having been convicted of murders of his own— along with shooting three police officers and wounding a fourth with a pipe bomb, as well as numerous robberies of banks and post offices, possession of explosives, and hostage taking.

He is now known as Abu Taubah, but his legal name remains the one used in a Nov. 5, 2012 government memo that summarized his criminal history:”​

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-inspired-by-this-bank-robbing-ex-marine.html

And, on it goes. The article pretty much indicts him as being associated with Mateen without a single shred of evidence. The article does offer some interesting biographical material on him that I had not seen elsewhere. He seems like the Islamic version of Kody Brown the Mormon. Not as many wives, but almost as many children.

Anyhow, I have my own theory regarding this Robertson guy. For some reason, Spy vs Spy and Mad Magazine come to mind.

Others may see it differently.

 

[CARIIS]

I just had a very interesting insight, at least IMO ha! I love fireworks! They started around here about half an hour ago, and for the first time in my life the noise is creating apprechension.

It is not like I walk around afraid I am gonna get killed. But I just realzied, that what I am hearing sounds much more like PUlse than a bomb.

And it made me think, by god, i bet the people in the bar that night, are experincing it but way worse. How horrible huh??

I am thinking about putting on headphones, which is amazing to me.

Cues, heard the first outbreak of shots on the news so many times, it is what these sound like --- pops not booms, and its not " all" of the noises.

There is someone within ear shot that is firing off some kind that sound just like PUlse. and when some particular ones go off ("more" like PUlse), than the others there is actually a increase in uncomfortable feeling state. And there is discrimanating going on my head as it relates to the ones that sound just like it.

A lot of them are like normal , fine.

There is almost an urge to go look?????????? I did once!! And thought this is silly, come on.

I hope that one guy/gal runs out of theirs soon........

That certain sound is like a startle response....

When not them, that sound like that they are pretty - and there is intense heat lightening going on which makes it really neat!!

And its not really like its typical to be "looking" up , so actually noticing lightening in a more intense way !!

.amazing huh?

 

[CARIIS]

Levity break

[h=1]Teachers' strike: Schools to close because of NUT walkout[/h]

 

[CARIIS]

New documents released

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2016-07/23869154464740-04111523.pdf

Your kidding me

On them it says

Public "version"

little new information

"I noticed multiple victims on the ground inside of the night club. I did not see any signs of life or movement coming from any of the bodies on the floor in the nightclub. I also noticed about 15-20 officers and deputies inside the night club [sic] with long guns."

"I made entry into the night club [sic] from the eastide door to help provide security while others brought wounded victims out. I observed multiple victims lying on the ground who were deceased from the end of the bar closest to the eastside door."

publicly released version of the reports, no deputies wrote of any shots fired after the first gun battle inside the club stopped at 2:18 a.m.

OPD has not released 911 calls from the attack.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-pulse-shooting-scso-deputies-20160704-story.html

 

[CARIIS]

[FONT=&amp]....................recent federal guidelines call for medics to put on body armor and go into potentially dangerous situations alongside police officers when possible. But paramedics Josh Granada and Carlos Tavarez didn't have bullet-proof vests and they never made it inside the nightclub. Instead, they treated the wounded across the street in the parking lot of a bagel shop.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Could they have saved more lives if they had body armor and went inside the gay Orlando nightclub, .... It's tough to know, they told The Associated Press.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]....., paramedics have struggled with how close they should get to active shooter scenes when they know there are wounded victims who need help. The federal guidelines suggest that victims' chances of survival improve when paramedics go into "the warm zone."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Paramedics have traditionally waited for an "all-clear" that it's safe to go into an active-shooter situation. But studies of past mass shootings have shown "the value of having medical and rescue personnel who are properly trained and equipped to enter the warm zone to maximize victim survival.......................
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]In the Pulse shooting, paramedic-firefighters stayed out of the danger zone, in part because Omar Mateen indicated to police negotiators that he had explosives,
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] being communicated over our radio that the scene was not secure."[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]...at Pulse, the priority was setting up treatment areas away from potential gunfire, fire department spokeswoman Ashley Papagni said in an email.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Orlando paramedic-firefighters and ambulance technicians also aren't equipped with body armor or vests, Papagni said.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Going in with a SWAT team member wasn't a good option because Mateen's line of sight "was pretty much everywhere"
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]...doctors out in the bay with 20 or 30 hospital beds lined up just ready to take patients,"
"[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]When they returned, dozens more people on the ground were on the ground at the bagel shop. None could move......

..........."we had pretty much exhausted every single piece of medical equipment," Granada said.

would end up treating and transporting nearly one-third of the total 44 patients taken to Orlando Regional Medical Center over four trips. .........

first responders are working to reconcile what they witnessed and experienced during their half-mile loop, from Station 5 to the scene to the hospital and back again, over three hours.

[/FONT]
It hadn’t been 45 minutes since Odell and the three-man crew had returned from Pulse to treat a patron who had drunk too much..

coded tagging system to quickly organize and sort victims by severity of injuries: black, red, yellow and green.

“The red tag were given to victims that had a chance of living if we could rush them to the hospital. Those people’s lives were saved......

... cardboard black tags were hidden from public view.

“When you have a penetrating injury to your torso and you are not breathing, we assume whatever hole is leaking air into your chest cavity..... If you have air going in there, it crushes your lung and you can’t breathe...... “The best thing we can do is stick the biggest IVs we have right in your chest and it releases air.”

.... For that third trip, they turned the truck into a mobile clinic of sorts, bandaging and making splints for another five patients before transporting them to the hospital.
All before 3 a.m.
.
...they spent the next two hours scrubbing the layers and layers of Sunday morning rescues from their truck.



http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article87364892.html
[FONT=&amp]https://www.yahoo.com/news/close-too-close-hard-orlando-paramedics-143025974.html
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482322488/orlando-shooting-what-happened-update[/FONT]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-pulse-shooting-scso-deputies-20160704-story.html

 

[i.b.nora]

Fort Pierce mosque fight brings meeting with sheriff, official says
Palm Beach Post
1:31 p.m. Tuesday, July 5, 2016

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...riff-suspect-in-fight-outside-mosque-h/nrsFZ/


FORT PIERCE — 12:45 update: The same day that a man wearing traditional Muslim garb was beaten in front of the Fort Pierce Islamic Center, the St. Lucie Sheriff’s Office sat down to discuss security with members of the Muslim community, a spokesman for a local American-Islamic group said Tuesday.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations in Florida, or CAIR, met with the sheriff’s office Saturday night focusing on providing security to the mosques members, said Wilfredo Ruiz, its communications director.

“In that meeting, we opened line of communication between the sheriff and the (Muslim) community,” Ruiz said. “A lot of concerns were conveyed to the sheriff. … We’ve had a sheriff’s presence since then.”​

There is more!

 

[bluesneakers]

Fort Pierce mosque fight brings meeting with sheriff, official says
Palm Beach Post
1:31 p.m. Tuesday, July 5, 2016

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...riff-suspect-in-fight-outside-mosque-h/nrsFZ/


FORT PIERCE — 12:45 update: The same day that a man wearing traditional Muslim garb was beaten in front of the Fort Pierce Islamic Center, the St. Lucie Sheriff’s Office sat down to discuss security with members of the Muslim community, a spokesman for a local American-Islamic group said Tuesday.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations in Florida, or CAIR, met with the sheriff’s office Saturday night focusing on providing security to the mosques members, said Wilfredo Ruiz, its communications director.

“In that meeting, we opened line of communication between the sheriff and the (Muslim) community,” Ruiz said. “A lot of concerns were conveyed to the sheriff. … We’ve had a sheriff’s presence since then.”​

There is more!

I think if someone beats the crap out of a man while saying things like "You Muslims need to go back where you came from" it has to be a hate-crime.

On top of security, the sheriff’s office is looking furtherinto the incident to see whether the charges should be updated to hate-crime status.

Would he have even stopped if the victim wasn't Muslim?