FL FL - Miami Beach, WhtMale 1388UMFL, 46-70, offshore, laryngectomy, Apr'95

[ipa]

TY!
Reminder to self: read entire thread thoroughly before posting.

Things can go off the rails quickly when there are multiple cases going in one thread!

 

[carbuff]

Revisiting Namus description--I had either forgotten or never noticed that he was wearing the crest and the wedding ring on the same finger.

 

[ipa]

Revisiting Namus description--I had either forgotten or never noticed that he was wearing the crest and the wedding ring on the same finger.

I spent some time yesterday on ancestry trying to comb through wedding records with some of the last names given, but didn't find anything that stood out.

 

[ipa]

Finding a few of these victorian seals that look kind of like this

Victorian Gold Cased Small Seal With Bloodstone Base With Griffin & Crown Intaglio (114H) | The Antique Jewellery Company

A lovely early Victorian gold cased seal with a shield shaped base set with a bloodstone. The intaglio is an Earl’s crest with a crown and griffin. It would look great worn with other pieces on a chain or on a bracelet.

www.antiquejewellerycompany.com

 

[ipa]

Was it just a busy day in Miami or was there more to this guy's story?

 

[branmuffin]

Agree that Edmonds/Edmands are far more common names than Froxmere!
If it hasn’t been brought up before, it may be worth noting that the ring the UID was wearing is a put-together piece. The shield-shaped intaglio is roughly set into the squarish frame of a much larger ring. It is not actually “set” but looks like the top of a much smaller ring was simply forced down into the empty frame of a heavy, ornate men’s ring. Superficially a great “look,” but to my eye the piece is clearly mismatched, unfinished, and impractical for everyday wear.

Wouldn’t the wearer be worried that the intaglio could be jarred loose and fall out? Would someone wearing it day to day not be concerned with the amount of debris the ring’s poor setting could accumulate? Seems unlikely to be jewelry selected by anyone to be worn traveling on a cruise ship or during a fishing expedition.

To my mind this gentleman chose to wear this ring as some token of remembrance in his final days, and didn’t have time to have it professionally set. Was it an heirloom piece that he had worn in his youth? Did it belong to a loved one who had passed before him? His wife? Someone else? Did he put it on his finger before he took his life? Did he include instructions that he wished to be buried at sea with it?

It was stated up thread that this case was being investigated as a potential criminal case. If that rules out planned burial at sea, does LE then investigate any unexpected death (suicide, accidental, or homicide) as first potentially criminal? Without an identity and unknown cause of death, where would they even start?
TIA!

I think it's very difficult to say what the quality really is on the ring because the image we have is of poor quality. Intaglio rings can be engraved in hollow or raised designs. I can't really tell which one it is, but if I was going to guess I'd say it's a raised design.

The image provided from LE is not great quality which makes it difficult to decide whether the engraving quality is good but based on the image of the crest seal you provided further up the thread the stone inset looks just as rough on the seal stamp as it does on the ring.

It's a very unique ring but I don't know if we're going down a rabbit hole trying to figure out whether it has the ability to help identify the deceased. After 27 years I'd say no.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if the griffin design is really white in the actual ring, or if LE colored it in to make it more visible.

I had assumed it was engraved with a hollow design so it could be used as a signet, but it could easily be raised.

 

[PatLaurel]

If it hasn’t been brought up before, it may be worth noting that the ring the UID was wearing is a put-together piece. The shield-shaped intaglio is roughly set into the squarish frame of a much larger ring. It is not actually “set” but looks like the top of a much smaller ring was simply forced down into the empty frame of a heavy, ornate men’s ring. Superficially a great “look,” but to my eye the piece is clearly mismatched, unfinished, and impractical for everyday wear.

I think it's very difficult to say what the quality really is on the ring because the image we have is of poor quality.

Here's a better quality photo of the ring.

I agree with @BigKeyManatee, the intaglio doesn't match the bezel setting, making it look a put-together piece.

MOO JMO

 

[Susikatze]

I studied medieval history and heraldics at some point and that is hands down the weirdest griffin ive ever seen.
The cross is interesting, though

 

[carbuff]

(snipped)

I agree with @BigKeyManatee, the intaglio doesn't match the bezel setting, making it look a put-together piece.

MOO JMO

I wonder if it might have had some sort of inlay in the gaps? Mother of pearl or something like that?

 

[GatorFL]

I studied medieval history and heraldics at some point and that is hands down the weirdest griffin ive ever seen.
The cross is interesting, though

What is weird about it? The staff?

 

[branmuffin]

What is weird about it? The staff?

The image does have a bit of a cartoonish quality to it, imo. Usually if someone is going to have a crest made up with images involving griffins and dragons they resemble medieval imagery rather than something that looks more modern. Someone mentioned earlier that the imagery might be related to a small group of individuals and some experiences they may have in common.

 

[PatLaurel]

@GatorFL ,I don't find anything weird about the Griffin nor interesting about the cross. The former is a Griffin's head erased, gorged or feathered, and the latter is a Cross Crosslet Fitched/ Fitchy/ Fitchée in bend sinister. Both symbols are mentioned in Fairbairn's Crests and in other books and websites, and both look exactly the same as the symbols on JD's ring.
The stone appears worn out, which makes the Griffin look a little different, but not weird IMO.

I didn't study Heraldry but, some WS members and Google, have taught me a lot.

MOO JMO

 

[branmuffin]

@GatorFL ,I don't find anything weird about the Griffin nor interesting about the cross. The former is a Griffin's head erased, gorged or feathered, and the latter is a Cross Crosslet Fitched/ Fitchy/ Fitchée in bend sinister. Both symbols are mentioned in Fairbairn's Crests and in other books and websites, and both look exactly the same as the symbols on JD's ring.
The stone appears worn out, which makes the Griffin look a little different, but not weird IMO.

I didn't study Heraldry but, some WS members and Google, have taught me a lot.

MOO JMO

I found an image of the actual griffin. It doesn't have the cross crosslet but it is a start. I acknowledge that I was wrong regarding the images as cartoonish since the actual image provided in the link is almost identical.

I've already sent a message to the individual listed to find out if they can flesh out any of the information we have gotten so far. They probably won't be able to identify the UID but at least they can provide context to the imagery.

| British Armorial Bindings

armorial.library.utoronto.ca

 

[carbuff]

I think this has been mentioned before, but all the symbols are related to protection or guardianship--fitched crosses often mean defending the faith, the griffin is a protector, bloodstone offers protection to the wearer, even the stone's shield shape symbolizes protection.

If it's a family crest or heirloom, that might not mean anything.

 

[PatLaurel]

I think I may have found the crest in question or, a very similar one. The website says de device was "registered in February of 1994 (via the East)." I have no idea what it means. The device is associated with the name "Guido Martini Of Trinacria" and is described as follows: "Quarterly sable and Or, a cross crosslet throughout counterchanged between in bend sinister a griffin's head erased and another erased contourny sable." (BBM)
Unfortunately there are no images for this crest.
Complex Search Form

This other website has a description of Guido's previous crest: https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1994/02/lar.html

Guido Martini of Trinacria. Device change. Quarterly sable and Or, a cross crosslet throughout counterchanged between in bend sinister a griffin's head erased and another erased contourny sable.

His previously registered device, Or, a gauntlet sable and on a chief wavy gules a sea-serpent ondoyant emergent from the line of division Or, is released.

And this other person named "Sigurðr Peterson" submitted in 2017 the same crest but it was "returned for conflict with the device of Guido Martini of Trinacria".

https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2017/08/17-08lar.html#34

I couldn't find any images nor these two men... but maybe someone else can!?

MOO JMO

 

[carbuff]

That's from the Society for Creative Anachronism: Society for Creative Anachronism - Wikipedia

It's basically a nonprofit organization devoted to quasi-medieval cosplay. Most of the members take it VERY seriously. Members create a persona with a fictional name that they use for group activities. So Guido Martini is essentially someone's stage name.

From the East probably means the Kingdom of the East, which covers the northeastern US and Canada Quebec and east.

I found a couple of things about Guido in the SCA websites:

Guido Martini of Trinacria

Companion of the Onyx

1996-11-16

Blackstone Mountain (Service)

AEthelmearc College of Heralds - Order of Precedence - Blackstone Mountain

The order of merit for martial accomplishments from Æthelmearc. Induction into this Order confers an Award of Arms if the recipient has not already received one. The badge of the order is (Fieldless) A stag's head cabossed per pale Or and gules. ... Guido Martini of Trinacria 1991-02-23

Order of Defense - Peers of the Sylvan Kingdom of Æthelmearc

Learn about Peers in the Kingdom of Æthelmearc.

sites.google.com

Guido Martini of Trinacria

August 14, 1998

Æthelmearc

Living in Middle Kingdom

But it looks like he was still around as of 1998, so probably not our guy. But maybe someone known to the SCA group he was part of? I'm not sure where to start -- maybe contact the office of the herald? Æthelmearc College of Heralds

 

[LucyOso]

He kind of looks like RUDOLF WERNER KOCH

View Yellow Notices

View and search public Yellow Notices for missing persons

www.interpol.int

 

[ipa]

I have a kind of weird lead/idea... really out there, I've probably been looking at this case too long... but I don't really think it's founded enough, and could potentially involve someone who is not missing at all... not really in good enough shape to post it here, is there anyone that I could PM or could PM me that I could share it with?

 

[LucyOso]

I have a kind of weird lead/idea... really out there, I've probably been looking at this case too long... but I don't really think it's founded enough, and could potentially involve someone who is not missing at all... not really in good enough shape to post it here, is there anyone that I could PM or could PM me that I could share it with?

What do you mean not missing at all? Like already declared dead? Using a fake identification? Vanished from a boat or something? You can message me, but it is also ok to share theories. If a theory.