FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[CARIIS]

Thank You for taking on the uncomfortable task of trying to figure out how it might have gone down that night. We've questioned how Austin could attack both husband and wife at the same time, and I appreciate your thinking outside the box.

No wonder you've been concentrating on that blood found on and in the car! Great thinking! The scenario you laid out would explain much of what we know, and don't know yet. The good neighbor did only see and mention a woman laying there. It'd give Austin time to drink something in the garage if he had already attacked Michelle first, and John wasn't there yet. Do you think he fought off the neighbor also before he drank something in the garage? Why would LE hold back info if they knew John wasn't there when the attacks started?...don't they know we need more details.

I am kinda thinking they dont know Austin cant speak and the only two people there are deceased. I Maybe the blood in the car was him trying to get away, I suppose that could be an option, but why would there not be a trail of blood from somewhere if he was either arriving or leaving.

If he left blood on and in the car he had to be inmotion, trail from some direction ? He was not in the car when found?

If there was a trail why would they not have said it appears he arrived on scene , or was attempting to flee his attacker. We found a trail of blood leading to the car? We found a trial of blood from his car to where deputies found him in the driveway?

He was either in the garage or on the driveway. There is one other possibilty in once conferance sheriff said we found a lot of blood IN the house, but in the context he was describing that it appeared the good guy ran inside to get away and that was his blood in the house

I just thought ok maybe the blood in the house was the husband and he ran in and out the front door -- but where is the trail to his finall lcoation

And the drink stuff is confusing where did the "blue color" come from? Good guy did not ever report him drinking anything? Out of all the junk in their what would make them say they think it was a blue liquid. That never made sense to me?

I never heard him say we are not releasing that now - like 99.5 of them do - any question he was asked he answered or said we dont know , so it did not strike me like there is stuff that they know they are not stating. As more and more of mom and dads conflicting reports came out he wove them into his next one.

The only thing is this is the first one I have heard of Hipaa not discussing how a killer or victim is doing in the hopsital- that is a first for me!

I suppose if he was not there during her attack and pulled in and saw his wife lying there he might have gotten out to try and run. But blood in the car and on the car means he was already bleeding. The one lady was in the car cleaning , and another cleaning the hood .

I tried to go back to find that pic but realized it wa in the first thread and too long to try and find so I quit looking! I did not go to thread one!

Wish there were transcripts of all the pressers!

 

[PositiveLight]

I still feel like flakka played some part in this. For some reason it can cause a person to bite or eat flesh. There's been several incidences over the past few years if similar behavior after flakka was consumed. Some call it the zombie drug. In this article it refers to it as the second generation bath salts. Interesting read.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...ug-flakka-everything-you-need-to-know-w435074
<modsnip>


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[PositiveLight]

I am kinda thinking they dont know Austin cant speak and the only two people there are deceased. I Maybe the blood in the car was him trying to get away, I suppose that could be an option, but why would there not be a trail of blood from somewhere if he was either arriving or leaving.

If he left blood on and in the car he had to be inmotion, trail from some direction ? He was not in the car when found?

If there was a trail why would they not have said it appears he arrived on scene , or was attempting to flee his attacker. We found a trail of blood leading to the car? We found a trial of blood from his car to where deputies found him in the driveway?

He was either in the garage or on the driveway. There is one other possibilty in once conferance sheriff said we found a lot of blood IN the house, but in the context he was describing that it appeared the good guy ran inside to get away and that was his blood in the house

I just thought ok maybe the blood in the house was the husband and he ran in and out the front door -- but where is the trail to his finall lcoation

And the drink stuff is confusing where did the "blue color" come from? Good guy did not ever report him drinking anything? Out of all the junk in their what would make them say they think it was a blue liquid. That never made sense to me?

I never heard him say we are not releasing that now - like 99.5 of them do - any question he was asked he answered or said we dont know , so it did not strike me like there is stuff that they know they are not stating. As more and more of mom and dads conflicting reports came out he wove them into his next one.

The only thing is this is the first one I have heard of Hipaa not discussing how a killer or victim is doing in the hopsital- that is a first for me!

Wish there were transcripts of all the pressers!

Are you maybe referring to an earlier post I made in regards to blue liquid? If so, I was only using an example of how easily someone could ingest a poison that wasn't contained properly. My example was "for example if someone stored something like Windex in an old Gatorade bottle, even if the plastic Gatorade tag was ripped off, to a delusional person they may think it's one of the many flavors of Gatorade. Then possibly ingesting it to quench their thirst if they were dehydrated or their throat was burning. Even the taste might not stop them. "
I was only using that as an example. Unless something has been said in a press conference about that actually being the case, my example may have confused you.

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[Caffeine]

Interesting thoughts on how the scenario may have unfolded. I will add, the husband could have been on a "beer run" but he also could have been in the house as well.

I can't recall if the wife's injuries have been detailed much, but AH could have simply ran up, stabbed her to death and in turn the husband runs out after hearing her scream and begins fighting off AH. Considering the attack was centered around an open garage, numerous blunt or sharp objects could have been used by both people.

I think one way or the other the husband was likely overpowered and tried to flee (maybe making his way from the garage to the driveway and then hoping he could escape down the street) but was subdued by AH and wrestled him to the ground where police found the two of them.

I don't know if blood on the car hood is indicative of anything per say, they both could have sparred inside the garage, the front lawn, the driveway etc. It was obviously a dire situation and unfortunately the wife was likely taken by surprise and the husband was overpowered.

Add a good samaritan neighbor in the mix and the path of this violence could have been all around the front of the house.

 

[CARIIS]

Are you maybe referring to an earlier post I made in regards to blue liquid? If so, I was only using an example of how easily someone could ingest a poison that wasn't contained properly. My example was "for example if someone stored something like Windex in an old Gatorade bottle, even if the plastic Gatorade tag was ripped off, to a delusional person they may think it's one of the many flavors of Gatorade. Then possibly ingesting it to quench their thirst if they were dehydrated or their throat was burning. Even the taste might not stop them. "
I was only using that as an example. Unless something has been said in a press conference about that actually being the case, my example may have confused you.

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OH!! I thought they said it !!!!! TY! One (out of 458) areas of confusing things ruled out!!

The other day finding out that they really might not be ABLE to determine anything at the FBI was both surpising and frustrating.......

 

[Curious Me]

I am kinda thinking they dont know Austin cant speak and the only two people there are deceased. I Maybe the blood in the car was him trying to get away, I suppose that could be an option, but why would there not be a trail of blood from somewhere if he was either arriving or leaving.

If he left blood on and in the car he had to be inmotion, trail from some direction ? He was not in the car when found?

If there was a trail why would they not have said it appears he arrived on scene , or was attempting to flee his attacker. We found a trail of blood leading to the car? We found a trial of blood from his car to where deputies found him in the driveway?

He was either in the garage or on the driveway. There is one other possibilty in once conferance sheriff said we found a lot of blood IN the house, but in the context he was describing that it appeared the good guy ran inside to get away and that was his blood in the house

I just thought ok maybe the blood in the house was the husband and he ran in and out the front door -- but where is the trail to his finall lcoation

And the drink stuff is confusing where did the "blue color" come from? Good guy did not ever report him drinking anything? Out of all the junk in their what would make them say they think it was a blue liquid. That never made sense to me?

I never heard him say we are not releasing that now - like 99.5 of them do - any question he was asked he answered or said we dont know , so it did not strike me like there is stuff that they know they are not stating. As more and more of mom and dads conflicting reports came out he wove them into his next one.

The only thing is this is the first one I have heard of Hipaa not discussing how a killer or victim is doing in the hopsital- that is a first for me!

I suppose if he was not there during her attack and pulled in and saw his wife lying there he might have gotten out to try and run. But blood in the car and on the car means he was already bleeding. The one lady was in the car cleaning , and another cleaning the hood .

I tried to go back to find that pic but realized it wa in the first thread and too long to try and find so I quit looking! I did not go to thread one!

Wish there were transcripts of all the pressers!

Didn't LE say blood in the car? Groan, who wants to search for that presser. I remember you brought it up soon after, and you also brought up the photos of them collecting and cleaning the inside of the car.

The blue liquid could just be a red herring. They mentioned the vodka bottle too. LE must know what he drank by now. Hopefully, they'll share more after they charge him.

BBM

 

[PositiveLight]

OH!! I thought they said it !!!!! TY! One (out of 458) areas of confusing things ruled out!!

The other day finding out that they really might not be ABLE to determine anything at the FBI was both surpising and frustrating.......

You're welcome! Believe me I get confused myself constantly!

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[nancydrew71]

I still feel like flakka played some part in this. For some reason it can cause a person to bite or eat flesh. There's been several incidences over the past few years if similar behavior after flakka was consumed. Some call it the zombie drug. In this article it refers to it as the second generation bath salts. Interesting read.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...ug-flakka-everything-you-need-to-know-w435074

<modsnip>

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This sounds like the best explanation yet.

 

[CARIIS]

Found it

They are not forensic folks. No mask, cleaning solution in hand , sponges, vacuum, paper towels. Wish I could figure out a way to find his presser after this where he said in the car

 

[Curious Me]

Flakka would fit in so neatly to explain almost every single detail we know so far. That's what LE thought from the first. I still hesitate to see him doing flakka for some reason. I just haven't heard much about AH's prior drug use. I know he mentioned mushrooms in a rap song. I know he did some weed. If he did do flakka, then I have to ask -- where'd he get it? Was it hidden at his mother's house and he took it when he went there to drink oil? Would any of his frat buddies or friends share what they might know with LE? Flakka...what a terrifying drug I can't imagine anyone wanting to try it.

 

[CARIIS]

Flakka would fit in so neatly to explain almost every single detail we know so far. That's what LE thought from the first. I still hesitate to see him doing flakka for some reason. I just haven't heard much about AH's prior drug use. I know he mentioned mushrooms in a rap song. I know he did some weed. If he did do flakka, then I have to ask -- where'd he get it? Was it hidden at his mother's house and he took it when he went there to drink oil? Would any of his frat buddies or friends share what they might know with LE? Flakka...what a terrifying drug I can't imagine anyone wanting to try it.

I cant get past mental as primary soley because of YOu Tube stuff

Mental may have resulted in him trying Flaka recently and would then influence what then transpired

Dad expalined the walk out as a bathroom trip then vanishing act 3x that week. He could not have been on flaka all three times!

I dont think he would hang out with dad doing it, but that afternoon he was def on downward spiral.

Turtle shells dont typically result in a 3 mile run, sensing "evil". imo

Stressers are mounting

the conflict with dad

stuff is going on in a delsuionial manner

wesson oil

there is a progression that day

I suppose he may have made the decision to get it and had it in his pocket and dropped it after the second conflict

its just that decomp was def intense that day

The basic drug screen did not show any self medicating- at all.

That an intense jump from clean to bath salts , from the son of medical person!!

I kinda have wondered if the shooting birds day might have been the day he first tried it. Its not like they are residing in Pike Co where a gun shot would not gather attn!!

So in some way it certainly shows very poor judgement call to be shooting birds in his neighbors yard!! I think alcohol could result in that in Pike co, but in that setting pretty unique

just specualting!

 

[GeeEm]

Found it

They are not forensic folks. No mask, cleaning solution in hand , sponges, vacuum, paper towels. Wish I could figure out a way to find his presser after this where he said in the car

Nope that is not the forensic teams, those are the people who wipes 'brains off walls'(the clean up crew) for crime scenes. **SHUDDER**

jmo :moo:

 

[TDW59]

I am back in thread 1 but I haven't gotten that far yet for those/ I will make a note to bring them over when I get to them.

It's the Flaka type drug that is so hard and taking so long to try to identify, right?

They could rule out steroids, alcohol and identify the caustic chemical early on if they had chosen to do so.

I have seen a very drunk person bite another person's cheek hard before, but have never seen anything like that video. wow.

It took me a few days to read thro thread 1 the first time, and I didn't watch the videos, only read news links. Apropos of nothing but where I am right now...I don't think the voice imitations are strange. I have seen both young people and even some adults do it for humor. My sister and her son have a pretty good rif down about being British royalty and the son can pull off several accents. I haven't seen the rapping ones yet. Was curious to see if I thought they sounded like word salad or trying to rap.

I don't know how to take the ones about steroids other than an admission that he had taken them and had issues with it, including dependence.

I am perfectly willing to believe he took Flakka or something like it. I noticed maybe some commonalities in that video, so I think I will watch more of them.
But I don't take his abnormal strength as necessarily signaling anything, he was a bodybuilder after all. He would be expected to be abnormally strong. Intense rage and adrenal flooding can make one "feel no pain", a survival mechanism in the brain.

From what I read yesterday, some of the chemicals that might be associated with a lawn service can be some of the worst poisons.

I couldn't hear all of mom's police call.

Thank you for the timeline. I haven't wanted to try to envision the attack itself but I am interested.

Just checking in and all moo only.....

 

[CARIIS]

Nope that is not the forensic teams, those are the people who wipes 'brains off walls'(the clean up crew) for crime scenes. **SHUDDER**

jmo :moo:

Agree, and kinda think if it was not an affluent white neighbood I have not really seen maids at crime scenes -- I did at Pulse that day and that was like 2 weeks AFTER gave me the chills in terms of what happended in there.


Think it is kinda easy for us to focus on 49 but really a 100 people were shot in there its small

 

[bluesneakers]

Why would anyone do flakka. I can understand almost any other drug - prescription or otherwise - but damn, I can't imagine any high would be worth the potential terrifying effects from this one.

Yes, I think it would be big fun to grunt and repeatedly throw myself onto the sidewalk. Sign me up!

 

[GeeEm]

Why would anyone do flakka. I can understand almost any other drug - prescription or otherwise - but damn, I can't imagine any high would be worth the potential terrifying effects from this one.

Yes, I think it would be big fun to grunt and repeatedly throw myself onto the sidewalk. Sign me up!

Sign on the BLUE LINE ___________________________ j/k

I'm still not sold on mental illness either. The wesson oil is what's confusing me.

Same here blue, I just can't figure this thing out at all! Nothing seems to fit!

 

[CARIIS]

The ironies

More people doing this junk die from over-drinking water- just bizaire stuff

The most common causes of MDMA-related deaths are 1 hyperthermia, 2 serotonin syndrome, and 3 hyponatremia.

http://www.medicnerd.com/ready-for-molly-flakka-warning-graphic-language-images/

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Flakka would fit in so neatly to explain almost every single detail we know so far. That's what LE thought from the first. I still hesitate to see him doing flakka for some reason. I just haven't heard much about AH's prior drug use. I know he mentioned mushrooms in a rap song. I know he did some weed. If he did do flakka, then I have to ask -- where'd he get it? Was it hidden at his mother's house and he took it when he went there to drink oil? Would any of his frat buddies or friends share what they might know with LE? Flakka...what a terrifying drug I can't imagine anyone wanting to try it.

It could also fit in just as well with drugs he has implicitly admitted to using - steroids and shrooms - where this MMA fighter did a totally horrific murder while tripping on mushroom tea:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jarrod-...nds-heart-and-tongue-pleads-guilty-to-murder/
I'm more inclined to think along the lines of roid rage being the primary cause as flakka is something where you go into excited delirium pretty quickly after taking it, rather than building up over a week (which others besides his family have said he was acting different, so I'm not just taking WH's word on that) or two as that lead-up is more in line with straight mental illness or roid rage.

Actually I wonder if AH was trying to control his rage by walking out, but that it didn't help enough so instead he had a full psychotic break. To me AH walking back to his dad's house because he was embarrassed just doesn't make sense, especially with him saying "stop right there" as that doesn't sound like something a contrite person would be saying unless it was more like he was feeling publicly humiliated by his father:
He said that his daughter brought Austin back to the restaurant, adding that he grabbed his son by the collar and said 'What's wrong with you?'.

'You could see it in his eyes he was totally embarrassed,' Dr Harrouff told Dr Phil, holding back tears. 'He reared back and Carrie said, 'Stop right there', and he looked at Carrie with an embarrassed face and stopped. Then he left.'

It was at this point that Austin Harrouff left the restaurant and attempted to walk back to his father's house.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...legedly-stabbed-middle-aged-couple-death.html
Which apparently not only earlier that day but at other times as well, he's walked/driven off in anger during verbal confrontations with his father. AH may have been trying to do a good thing in cooling off, which if he had stayed in the restaurant after being assaulted by his father perhaps it would have triggered him sooner and not only would his father and sister be killed, but staff and patrons at the restaurant may have been killed as well, which regardless wouldn't eliminate his criminal culpability if the proximate cause was drugs.

 

[CARIIS]

Sign on the BLUE LINE ___________________________ j/k


Same here blue, I just can't figure this thing out at all! Nothing seems to fit!

Blue my dear have you watched his videos ?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3ymxLM4GYrXXDiBP9K6gQw/videos

 

[CARIIS]

I'm still not sold on mental illness either. The wesson oil is what's confusing me.

What do you mean?