FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[glf]

Back to bleach ~ I live in central Florida, and it is common to have outdoor bleach in your garage. It is stronger than laundry bleach, and is for removing mold and mildew from exterior surfaces.

https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/pr...en-us/clorox/cloroxoutdoorbleachconcentrated/

I didn't know the stuff existed 'til we moved here.

I haven't heard of it either. I also found out you have to be careful buying vinegar. I bought some at Dollar Tree, and got it home and it was marked for cleaning only. It has the type of alcohol that isn't meant for consumption.

 

[TDW59]

Alcoholism, the family disease.

We see AH walking away from WH several times. We know that WH was angry with AH and confrontational. We know that WH has been arrested twice for the very irrational and dangerous behavior of driving while intoxicated.

Just maybe, WH had a few before that walk and was giving AH a hard time. AH uses the turtle shells to try to distract then says something about evil spirits, which may be creatively describing the tone of things, and sprints off, removing himself from WH's presence again.

Play loosely with the idea.

We do know that alcohol was acknowledged to be used. And that it was said that AH had several backyard parties. He also grabbed a big bottle of scotch from the garage.

I can see WH offering AH a coupla/few beers in response to AH's psychological distress.

How might alcohol interact with steroid use or withdrawal?

There is an old saying about there not being any problem that alcohol can't make worse.

It certainly does not mix well with psychiatric conditions.

But it is used so very often to self medicate that it is cliche.

I consider the comment about iced tea a very strong "tell".

Very often, it is the family members of an alcoholic to be seen as the ones acting out.

I don't want to be victim blaming but I just kind of wonder why we haven't discussed (or I missed it) the obvious and known alcohol use/abuse.?

I, myself, don't know where I am going with this. Need coffee. But isn't there an elephant in the room?

 

[PositiveLight]

I haven't heard of it either. I also found out you have to be careful buying vinegar. I bought some at Dollar Tree, and got it home and it was marked for cleaning only. It has the type of alcohol that isn't meant for consumption.

Didn't know that about Dollar tree vinegar! Thank you for the heads up!!!!

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[PositiveLight]

Alcoholism, the family disease.

We see AH walking away from WH several times. We know that WH was angry with AH and confrontational. We know that WH has been arrested twice for the very irrational and dangerous behavior of driving while intoxicated.

Just maybe, WH had a few before that walk and was giving AH a hard time. AH uses the turtle shells to try to distract then says something about evil spirits, which may be creatively describing the tone of things, and sprints off, removing himself from WH's presence again.

Play loosely with the idea.

We do know that alcohol was acknowledged to be used. And that it was said that AH had several backyard parties. He also grabbed a big bottle of scotch from the garage.

I can see WH offering AH a coupla/few beers in response to AH's psychological distress.

How might alcohol interact with steroid use or withdrawal?

There is an old saying about there not being any problem that alcohol can't make worse.

It certainly does not mix well with psychiatric conditions.

But it is used so very often to self medicate that it is cliche.

I consider the comment about iced tea a very strong "tell".

Very often, it is the family members of an alcoholic to be seen as the ones acting out.

I don't want to be victim blaming but I just kind of wonder why we haven't discussed (or I missed it) the obvious and known alcohol use/abuse.?

I, myself, don't know where I am going with this. Need coffee. But isn't there an elephant in the room?

Valid points!

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[ohreally]

And it is packaged so very pretty ! At first I thought it was a condom!!

Then thought well the not for comsuption (!) might not be so odd! (above!)

"DO NOT put any person in this washer"

"Do not eat Ipod shuffle" (found on apple's website)

"This product moves when used" (on a Razor scooter)

"If you cannot read (...) warnings, do not use this product" --Actually I would be more concerned about directions if this is the case!!

"Use care when operating a car (...)" (on a bottle of dog's pills)

I can stop right there!!


Here is the kid Flakka laced version, it is with much regret that I must say , sadly this is not a sick joke but a news story .................

Google images

http://guardianlv.com/2015/07/flakka-laced-candy-threatens-southern-floridas-children-video/

http://www.oddee.com/item_88437.aspx|--|--|--|--|--

OMG that sour patch one is scary. I have an adult son that likes the real ones. I can see him or me buying that package if it priced close to the real candy price.
I know that F!orida has had a problem with synthetic drugs being sold in convenience stores.
Sorry to be off topic but i do think there is a consumer need to know on this. I always thought that people that were buying the synthetic drugs at the convenient stores knew what they were buying now i am not so sure. Would the clerk even inform a customer? Are they priced near the same as the real candy? Is there something on the packaging to indicate it is not candy?

 

[Jax49]

OMG that sour patch one is scary. I have an adult son that likes the real ones. I can see him or me buying that package if it priced close to the real candy price.
I know that F!orida has had a problem with synthetic drugs being sold in convenience stores.
Sorry to be off topic but i do think there is a consumer need to know on this. I always thought that people that were buying the synthetic drugs at the convenient stores knew what they were buying now i am not so sure. Would the clerk even inform a customer? Are they priced near the same as the real candy? Is there something on the packaging to indicate it is not candy?

As I understand it, the drugs are disguised as candy to make it easier to smuggle into the country. I suppose it would be possible for the fake candy to show up in a store, but it would be by mistake (and very unlikely to happen, imho).


Regarding bath salt type drugs for sale in convenience stores this site contains some interesting info.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/synthetics/classes.html

AppearanceThey may be sold in small jars or foil packages that contain a fine white or slightly yellow powder.
Names and packaging
They may be labeled Bliss, Drone, Vanilla Sky, Ivory, Ocean, Eight Ball, White Girl, White Dove or similar names. Instructions may state that they are for a ‘stimulating bath.’ They may also be sold as plant food, research chemicals or fertilizer. Their packages will usually falsely say “Not for Human Consumption.” The drugs may be snorted, smoked, swallowed or injected.

 

[PositiveLight]

OMG that sour patch one is scary. I have an adult son that likes the real ones. I can see him or me buying that package if it priced close to the real candy price.
I know that F!orida has had a problem with synthetic drugs being sold in convenience stores.
Sorry to be off topic but i do think there is a consumer need to know on this. I always thought that people that were buying the synthetic drugs at the convenient stores knew what they were buying now i am not so sure. Would the clerk even inform a customer? Are they priced near the same as the real candy? Is there something on the packaging to indicate it is not candy?

Great questions!

 

[PositiveLight]

As I understand it, the drugs are disguised as candy to make it easier to smuggle into the country. I suppose it would be possible for the fake candy to show up in a store, but it would be by mistake (and very unlikely to happen, imho).


Regarding bath salt type drugs for sale in convenience stores this site contains some interesting info.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/synthetics/classes.html

Wasn't the fake candy found in a drug sting? On a dealer possibly?
Here is another idea to throw out there while we discuss the candy...
I know for a fact that college students and high school students use gummy bears soaked in liquor and sell them at events and parties. The gummy bears swell up and absorb the alcohol. A quick drunk. I know this because I have a recent college graduate and a recent high school graduate. Both have told me they have seen it happen.
Soooo with that said.....
Maybe the drug dealers are selling the fake candy piece by piece with each one having a full hit of a drug. That way if they get caught they just have innocent candy on them with a drug inside that can't be easily tested. Dang that is frightening as I type it!
The problem that a buyer would have in a situation such as this is they can't be certain the dosage. They can't be certain of the ingredients. They also might not realize that only one candy is enough possibly taking more. :gaah::gaah:Our poor kids!!! They have no clue what is actually out there. As parents and adults I think we are also on a steep learning curve too. So scary at the possibilities. It's a lot to consider.

 

[Caffeine]

Honestly, synthetic drugs are coming out quicker than the FDA can regulate them so it's not surprising you can find questionable stuff at gas stations here and there and maybe some synthetic pot in places that haven't restricted it yet.

That said, the FDA is pretty lax with health "supplements" and don't have the same guidelines to follow as say, Bayer aspirin.

 

[PositiveLight]

Honestly, synthetic drugs are coming out quicker than the FDA can regulate them so it's not surprising you can find questionable stuff at gas stations here and there and maybe some synthetic pot in places that haven't restricted it yet.

That said, the FDA is pretty lax with health "supplements" and don't have the same guidelines to follow as say, Bayer aspirin.

Trying to keep up with the drugs is hard enough.... finding testing to test in an emergency situation to find out what someone ingested has to be even harder. I doubt we will ever catch up.

 

[glf]

As I understand it, the drugs are disguised as candy to make it easier to smuggle into the country. I suppose it would be possible for the fake candy to show up in a store, but it would be by mistake (and very unlikely to happen, imho).


Regarding bath salt type drugs for sale in convenience stores this site contains some interesting info.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/synthetics/classes.html

When I went to a nsg education class where we discussed bath salts at length, the instructor said that in Louisiana, they were sold in convenience stores. They were kept under the counter, you just had to ask the clerk. I don't remember if buyers had to be 18 or older to buy or not. This was back in '11 or '12.

 

[glf]

Didn't know that about Dollar tree vinegar! Thank you for the heads up!!!!

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They do sell regular vinegar, just be sure to check the label!
Alcoholism was suggested in Austin's family. If that could possibly be true for dad, then that puts a whole nother spin on stressors in the family. And tho Austin doesn't seem to have a drinking problem, doesn't mean he didn't inherit the addiction tendency from dad. It wouldn't necessarily come out as addiction to alcohol. It could be drugs, gambling, food, or a number of other things.

 

[TDW59]

I have watched a few documentaries now. Love the BBC

major organ damage & death from legal highs, Is this what AH looks like in the hospital?

[video=youtube;W9bjK7fWA1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9bjK7fWA1I[/video]

 

[TDW59]

FWIW, yes I am convinced that the H's have a family alcoholism problem via WH.

 

[Curious Me]

Flakka, also known as gravel... See the picture here-- http://crimefeed.com/2015/04/flakka-coming-five-facts-lethal-designer-drug-taking-florida/

It looks different than the stuff in the pretty packaging posted up thread which I thought was more like synthetic marijuana or a spice spin off. Getting confused with what flakka looks like, but apparently it can be used in many different ways and can look different. Are their not differences in the synthetic marijuanas and flakka? :lookingitup: I'm tired, and getting my drugs all mixed up!

I am still doubtful that Austin took flakka, but I've learned a ton on all kinds of different subject matter on this thread as we wait for more info.

As you know, this case has brought to my attention how many new drugs are out there. There's a chart in this article that shows which substances have increased over the years. There's two -- synthetic cannabinoids, and then the synthetic cathinones which seem to be in the lead now. I think they can look like crystals, but then deluded and sprayed. I'm less confused now, but more scared that controlling these substances is going to be hard.

Meet flakka...
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/18/8613673/synthetic-drugs-flakka

 

[PositiveLight]

I have watched a few documentaries now. Love the BBC

major organ damage & death from legal highs, Is this what AH looks like in the hospital?

[video=youtube;W9bjK7fWA1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9bjK7fWA1I[/video]

so sad to watch! the last minute of the video is very poignant. Very excellent reporting.

 

[glf]

Hi, Bessie!

 

[CARIIS]

Alcoholism, the family disease.

We see AH walking away from WH several times. We know that WH was angry with AH and confrontational. We know that WH has been arrested twice for the very irrational and dangerous behavior of driving while intoxicated.

Just maybe, WH had a few before that walk and was giving AH a hard time. AH uses the turtle shells to try to distract then says something about evil spirits, which may be creatively describing the tone of things, and sprints off, removing himself from WH's presence again.

Play loosely with the idea.

We do know that alcohol was acknowledged to be used. And that it was said that AH had several backyard parties. He also grabbed a big bottle of scotch from the garage.

I can see WH offering AH a coupla/few beers in response to AH's psychological distress.

How might alcohol interact with steroid use or withdrawal?

There is an old saying about there not being any problem that alcohol can't make worse.

It certainly does not mix well with psychiatric conditions.

But it is used so very often to self medicate that it is cliche.

I consider the comment about iced tea a very strong "tell".

Very often, it is the family members of an alcoholic to be seen as the ones acting out.

I don't want to be victim blaming but I just kind of wonder why we haven't discussed (or I missed it) the obvious and known alcohol use/abuse.?

I, myself, don't know where I am going with this. Need coffee. But isn't there an elephant in the room?

Hi!

I found the "ICED TEA" extremely peculiar also. I would not really know, nor care, what someone at a table ordered to drink.

It becomes even more bizaire in that in the middle of your son in the hospital close to death, who were murdered and eaten by him, and another man assualted by your son, - ti just would seem to me other things might be worth "remembering"

moo

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Hi!

I found the "ICED TEA" extremely peculiar also. I would not really know, nor care, what someone at a table ordered to drink.

It becomes even more bizaire in that in the middle of your son in the hospital close to death, who were murdered and eaten by him, and another man assualted by your son, - ti just would seem to me other things might be worth "remembering"

moo

Actually to me I saw it as potentially highly relevant as an ice tea bottle with blue liquid was seized by LE in the garage, so LE themselves thinks something related to ice tea is important to the case.

 

[glf]

I'm thinking somebody said something about "strong" iced tea. Maybe Austin drank that and was planning on ordering a different drink. He was thirsty, the waiter wasn't coming around, and could be he had no water. I know plenty of places that don't bring water to the table unless you ask for it. Other than that, I can't see any significant ties to him drinking something caustic at the scene of the crime. I could be missing something, but I only see a thirst connection at this time.