FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[Jax49]

Did I understand that other drugs, such as fentynal were for treatment at the hospital? That is one very serious, strong pain medication. Many times stronger than morphine. some people do abuse it.

One could certainly experience a blackout mixing that with alcohol, if it is something he took illicitly.

Re: mental illness, I hope I can be straightforward about it. My mother has a terminal cardio illness. Her heart is broken and does not work right, it does not support her normal functioning and it will be fatal.
With mental illness, one's mind is broken. It does not support normal functioning. It is uncurable. Without treatment, destructive and damaging things occur and too often it is fatal also. High suicide risk. It is uncommonly sometimes responsible for harm to others.

Remember the sniper who was found to have a brain tumor?

I wondered the same thing (BBM).

I do remember the sniper and how awful it was and then to find out about the tumor. Never felt safe walking by the tower on campus after that.

 

[strawberry]

I work at a residential psychiatric group home. People in a manic psychotic break can be very strong. We had a young man last year who tried to eat the Christmas tree.


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[Jax49]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2252242/cannibal-frat-boy-austin-harrouff-florida-murder-pictures/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ermath-Cannibal-frat-boy-killing-Florida.html

Warning. Photos are explicit but don't include any of the victims.

 

[CARIIS]

This case shows the ravages of untreated mental illness, that America has continued to under fund resources and these are the consequences.

What IMO, is most shocking is Dads vocation. How could his behavior in the weeks prior not have been red flag? In the end that is the sad part of this.

After these drug results, it strikes me again , that he was not in college that last semester. All along the silence from anyone was just bizarre IMO>

The inability to know throughout , where he was living longer than two weeks prior is just odd.

Pure speculation, but it would in some way , maybe, indicate that his de comp had been going on far longer than had been stated.

"what is wrong with you?" IMO is a pretty clear indicator that things were not OK.

I have always thought there is no way he could be functioning the three months before. The total lack of any reports from anyone at the institution from day one was pretty telling.

No friends to come forward stating he was fine or not so just never felt right. His Bizarre videos started 4 months before which at the time of the murders correlate with the semester. I think he may have flunked, or was extremely isolating resulting in failing that semester if he was physically there.


Schools out, getting pressure from family regarding education , stresses exacerbate mental illness. If we think about it dad said he had vanished three times before. He vanished that night when he got into conflict with dad.

Dad knew about him vanishing so it makes some sense that the other two times might have been a result of that as well.Arguing is a lot of pressure - too much pressure that week resulting in complete psychotic break.

I do not recall - have we ever heard from sister? Makes some sense that the family might be hesitant to state to report that for months things had been happening after that night in the garage.

The only thing we have ever been told was that he resided with mom for two weeks.

I would think if he was in school and being social a typical thing would be to say to peers hey check out my latest post on YT.

Dos anyone remember how many hits his videos had prior to that night? Folks dont post on YT for there stuff not to be seen??

Now that drugs have been ruled out- we are at hard core break.
I suppose it could happen but I have never seen or heard of someone who was supposed to be in college becoming a cannibal killer in the space of two weeks?

It will interesting to see if the story now changes somewhat, he had no drugs in his system so is everyone sure that it had only been two weeks that behavior changes were noted?

Speculating , but all along some of the holes have been just bizarre.

It shall be interesting to see if "new" info comes out. But the holidays are here so its time for people without mental illness to go psychotic trying to buy others things !

 

[Jax49]

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-mar...ed-killer-austin-harrouff-under-investigation

Some family members expressed that they thought Harrouff should have been considered for a Baker Act.“Today was just a 180. He was talking about being immortal, running lights, being in front of cars, testing his powers, saying he was half an animal.”
A medical examiner’s report says John Stevens was stabbed 18 times, while Mishcon also died from blunt force trauma.

 

[TDW59]

I consider anything said by AH's family to be questionable since they led us to believe he was in a life threatening condition & possible coma with organs failing right up to the point he was arrested. They have destroyed their own credibility.

I ask, with CARIIS, where are other people who have been around him in the past 3 months, 6 months, year?

I have mental illness and am really reclusive but I am sure that if my neighbors were interviewed about me, they could give a pretty good overview and synopsis.

 

[Flatbush]

This case, is indeed a very tough one.
Mental illness is very real... YES. NO question of that. Is he being treating for it now? Looks like it to me.
My opinion, and its just that...if I had a family member who was acting as abnormally as he (supposedly) was, I WOULD set on them and get things checked out. I know you cannot force someone, but family CAN use powers of persuasion. Dad sounded pretty dominant and dad was in the medical field. They said they seen things out of him our of the ordinary, putting it mildly. AND dad did apparently have very good insurance for this young man, so no insurance not an excuse. AND family (with him staring at these murder charges) MIGHT say things that might help. This again is MO we all got an opinion, we can agree to disagree. I DO very much want what is right for all parties involved, including Harrouff. Correct diagnosis is key.

Going back yes this young man had some mental illness (what is done is done...two people dead and a third nearly joined them). I have been reading some on the substances he had in the system, sounds sedating.. not REAL sure of the mix, sounds sedating but IDK. Anyway we are most likely looking at an insanity defense. The mental illness is most likely there and most likely diagnosed by now. However there seems to be a legal line between mental illness and an insanity defense. I am linking an article I found that is very informative. The insanity defense seems to be the route they are going to go, but I am not sure he meets the criteria.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/almost-psychopath/201208/the-insanity-defense

 

[Jax49]

Here is the current statute in Florida.

775.027 Insanity defense.—(1) AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.—All persons are presumed to be sane. It is an affirmative defense to a criminal prosecution that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant was insane. Insanity is established when
a) The defendant had a mental infirmity, disease, or defect; and
(b) Because of this condition, the defendant:
1. Did not know what he or she was doing or its consequences; or
2. Although the defendant knew what he or she was doing and its consequences, the defendant did not know that what he or she was doing was wrong.
Mental infirmity, disease, or defect does not constitute a defense of insanity except as provided in this subsection.

(2) BURDEN OF PROOF.—The defendant has the burden of proving the defense of insanity by clear and convincing evidence.

 

[Curious Me]

Family and friends were overlooking some odd behaviors that now seem like big red flags. From our viewpoint, it just seemed so sudden, seeing that clean cut young man in white shorts calmly leaving the restaurant. It is very hard to see those aftermath photos and understand such a sudden, violent psychotic break. As more comes out, we learn it wasn't as sudden and without warning as was initially reported. Family and friends may have tried very hard to help him, but they were not equipped, and waited too long to get him professional help. It turned out sad for everyone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ermath-Cannibal-frat-boy-killing-Florida.html

His bed had been moved to the garage because he thought there were demons in the house.

All my own thoughts and opinions

 

[strawberry]

If he tried to eat cooking oil at the restaurant why would whoever was with him not chase him down when he left?


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[Jax49]

If he tried to eat cooking oil at the restaurant why would whoever was with him not chase him down when he left?


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I think that is misinformation. IIRC, he ate oil at his mothers. She made him add parmesan cheese.

 

[Curious Me]

I was somewhat against having to use Austin's youtube videos as a diagnostic tool to prove he may have been mentally ill, but now it looks like he actually supplied a way to support what others might say towards a mental insanity defense. I do question how long others did not take it serious. I imagine everyone thought they could have a talk with him, tell him to shape up, and he'd snap out of it. I agree with CARIIS, the videos show this probably started months ago and may have been escalating. He shot that bird in the neighbor's yard two weeks earlier. He was creeping around the house, and I bet family members were getting uneasy. He was sleeping in the garage because there were demons in the house. I think the mental insanity defense has to be considered.


"According to police reports released Wednesday, Harrouff's family and friends told detectives he had been acting strangely in the days and hours before the attack."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ermath-Cannibal-frat-boy-killing-Florida.html

A friend, Samuel P---, said Harrouff showed up at his door, asked him his birthdate and then left. He returned and they went to the beach. He said during the drive, Harrouff claimed to be half-animal, half-human.

Is there any other way to take this than a cry for help?

A YouTube channel containing multiple videos of Harrouff contains the statement: “I’ve got a psycho side and a normal side. I’ve lost my mind help me find it.”

Accused FSU face-eater: ‘I’ve got a psycho side and a normal side’
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article96217747.html

BBM

 

[CARIIS]

I was somewhat against having to use Austin's youtube videos as a diagnostic tool to prove he may have been mentally ill, but now it looks like he actually supplied a way to support what others might say towards a mental insanity defense. I do question how long others did not take it serious. I imagine everyone thought they could have a talk with him, tell him to shape up, and he'd snap out of it. I agree with CARIIS, the videos show this probably started months ago and may have been escalating. He shot that bird in the neighbor's yard two weeks earlier. He was creeping around the house, and I bet family members were getting uneasy. He was sleeping in the garage because there were demons in the house. I think the mental insanity defense has to be considered.


"According to police reports released Wednesday, Harrouff's family and friends told detectives he had been acting strangely in the days and hours before the attack."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ermath-Cannibal-frat-boy-killing-Florida.html



Is there any other way to take this than a cry for help?



BBM

Oh my jmo, the bloodwork changed everything. IMO He should get placed in a hospital not in jail'

He is sick not a criminal. This is just a horrid case - like Batman pure mental illness. The videos look like they were filmed in a dorm room but the school has said no he was not in a dorm nor the frat house. This part so bugs me-where was he for a quarter of a year.

It cant be a University lying that he lived in dorm 1A for Jan - March. They specifically said no.

This was a bright kid at one point, excelling in sports doing well academically reasonable looking, yet no history of relationships - I dont believe that one shot of a girl.

His age, imo there would be more pics of him and her. Even that in and of itself is strange - at his age his limited social presence - especially I would think in a University setting.

The only really peer info we have was what from 9th grade- that is pure mental illness imo--social skills lacking. This reminds me so much of Holmes-

 

[CARIIS]

Family and friends were overlooking some odd behaviors that now seem like big red flags. From our viewpoint, it just seemed so sudden, seeing that clean cut young man in white shorts calmly leaving the restaurant. It is very hard to see those aftermath photos and understand such a sudden, violent psychotic break. As more comes out, we learn it wasn't as sudden and without warning as was initially reported. Family and friends may have tried very hard to help him, but they were not equipped, and waited too long to get him professional help. It turned out sad for everyone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ermath-Cannibal-frat-boy-killing-Florida.html



All my own thoughts and opinions

This is the first time I heard about living in the garage - cause of demons- if that is not a red flag I do not know what is. It is overtly delusional.

When this was breaking I did practically all his YT stuff, his music is far more telling than the videos and the videos were pretty disturbing.

 

[CARIIS]

Lets not forget Freaking out over tortoise shells hrs earlier

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-mar...ed-killer-austin-harrouff-under-investigation

Crime scene photos

http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...flakka-austin-harrouff-day-killings/94340596/

There is a pic here of his car-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CtePw1PQts




Finally, some honest info is coming about the previous 3 months before the two week stay at moms.

His journal --journey into madness:

https://www.scribd.com/document/332169593/Austin-Harrouff-Journals

 

[CARIIS]

Tid Bits :

Now we are getting all sorts of nuance, have you ever felt the need to record a sibling??

His sister, Haley, played for detectives an audiotape of Harrouff saying, "All this pain and sorrow because I solve all problems people have" and "I've become almost immortal, I have to die one day".

Haley Harrouff told detectives she had found her brother wandering the house one night saying he had the power to open locked doors.

Some family members expressed that they thought Harrouff should have been considered for a Baker Act.

A friend, Samuel Polacek, said Harrouff showed up at his door, asked him his birthdate and then left. He returned and they went to the beach. He said during the drive, Harrouff claimed to be half-animal, half-human.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11754867

[FONT=&amp]Before he was charged, he gave a TV interview from his hospital bed in which he claimed to have "heard voices of monsters and stuff" and "had weird dreams that I was worshipped religiously".

[/FONT]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/gruesome-pictures-show-bloody-aftermath-9324246

In one of the pics he is in his underwear, so the stuff about him taking his shorts off was accurate.


King has represented clients she described as severely mentally ill, including Amy Kern, of Jupiter, acquitted in the deaths of her grandmother and aunt’s boyfriend in 2009.

http://wwmt.com/news/nation-world/journals-reveal-new-insights-into-suspected-face-biting-killer-austin-harrouff

The notion all along that the shorts found nearby had no relationship remains odd, IMO> What are the odds of finding white shorts a block away - that never made any sense.

It is "interesting" that the documents were released right before a long holiday weekend! moo

 

[LostOldUserName]

I could be totally off base here but from the look of the front of the cars seats distance from the dashboard, I would guess this is her car. With the amount of blood I think she tried to get away from AH by getting into the car. I know we all guessed that
the Mr. Maybe went for beer run and came back to his wife being attacked or already deceased. I believe the truck to be his and car to be hers.

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[Curious Me]

AH did have friends looking for him that night. LE had his name wrong until those friends showed up. Was that from a fake ID? Apparently, he had been at Jupiter Beach with those friends earlier that day, and then on that walk with his father also that day, then walked to his mother's when he left the restaurant the first time, and walked about four miles to the Stevens garage after leaving the restaurant the second time. He had a lot of interaction with people, and walked enough you'd think to get tired out, but according to LE he was like a wild animal and unstoppable. I think it's safe to say the knife he brought with him to the crime scene, but I think the corkscrew and the scissors came from the Stevens home.

Martin County Sheriff’s Detective Daniel DeLac noted that while completing a search warrant to enter Stevens’ home, two men, David Yates and William Murphey, pulled up in a car asking whether the crime scene was related to their missing friend Austin Harrouff.

“At that time in the investigation, it was believed that the suspect was named Austin Moore,” DeLac wrote, noting his correct identity was later confirmed.

He stated when Davis and William were asked by a detective whether they had seen Harrouff carrying a knife earlier in the day or in the past, Davis said “he did see Austin playing with a knife earlier in the day when they were at Jupiter Beach.”

“Davis believed it was a 4- to 5-inch switchblade style knife, black in color. Davis had never seen Austin with the knife prior to that …”

Evidence taken from the crime scene included a knife with a 3.5-inch blade, a 7.6-inch corkscrew and an 8.5-inch pair of scissors, according to a sheriff’s report.

http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...flakka-austin-harrouff-day-killings/94340596/

 

[LostOldUserName]

AH did have friends looking for him that night. LE had his name wrong until those friends showed up. Was that from a fake ID? Apparently, he had been at Jupiter Beach with those friends earlier that day, and then on that walk with his father also that day, then walked to his mother's when he left the restaurant the first time, and walked about four miles to the Stevens garage after leaving the restaurant the second time. He had a lot of interaction with people, and walked enough you'd think to get tired out, but according to LE he was like a wild animal and unstoppable. I think it's safe to say the knife he brought with him to the crime scene, but I think the corkscrew and the scissors came from the Stevens home.

Martin County Sheriff’s Detective Daniel DeLac noted that while completing a search warrant to enter Stevens’ home, two men, David Yates and William Murphey, pulled up in a car asking whether the crime scene was related to their missing friend Austin Harrouff.

“At that time in the investigation, it was believed that the suspect was named Austin Moore,” DeLac wrote, noting his correct identity was later confirmed.

He stated when Davis and William were asked by a detective whether they had seen Harrouff carrying a knife earlier in the day or in the past, Davis said “he did see Austin playing with a knife earlier in the day when they were at Jupiter Beach.”

“Davis believed it was a 4- to 5-inch switchblade style knife, black in color. Davis had never seen Austin with the knife prior to that …”

Evidence taken from the crime scene included a knife with a 3.5-inch blade, a 7.6-inch corkscrew and an 8.5-inch pair of scissors, according to a sheriff’s report.

http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...flakka-austin-harrouff-day-killings/94340596/

With the friends rolling up on a crime scene and asking "hey, did our missing friend have something to do with this" makes me wonder if the friends knew that AH had a propensity to be violent.

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