FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[ninij9]

CARIIS, thanks for this tidbit.
Austin Harrouff’s Twitter page and a banner photo of teeth is pasted across the top.... infrequently used Twitter account.



OMG, that is so weird considering the name he's made for himself now. Big banner of teeth!

https://twitter.com/austinharrouff

And the icky tweet underneath in feed of man with brown sharpened teeth.( Mouth vomit happened just a little)

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[ninij9]

Also in regards to shooting Austin. They described him as bear hugging victim. The faces were close together because he was biting him. How on earth do you shoot one and insure not having the bullet go right through him, or miss all together and hit victim? Cops can't have the luxury of thinking through to all of the scenerios, especially in this political climate. They just can't win. Every encounter can lead to them being without a job, charged with shooting, or worse dead themselves (not the case here). So let's get used to cops not shooting right? Isn't this what so many wanted?
Sorry. I just feel for these guys. They came upon a horrific scene that was still active, and of all the things they had to figure out , I bet they all were worried they'd have to shoot and be the Bad guy that killed a mentally ill kid, or missed and hit the victim.
(Sorry, not sorry).


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[x_files]

His friend used the word obedient which I find worth noting. I don't think he exhibited typical rule breaker anti social behavior in his past. Usually, it's easy to use the words "pure evil" to describe killers, whereas, I'm not sure what this guy was thinking when he brutally beat and stabbed to death two innocent human beings who were complete strangers to him.

gentle and obedient aren't words I'd use to describe a psychopath either. Truly a bizarre case.

 

[x_files]

Snyder on Tuesday, “there are some things we do not yet know, and there are some things that we will not be able to release just yet.”

Harrouff walked in the direction of his father’s house on Southeast Merritt Way in Jupiter about 15 minutes from the restaurant,

captain of the wrestling team.

Harrouff spent last Monday morning with his local fraternity brothers

bloody footprints through the home appear to belong to the neighbor, Jeff Fisher, The prints mark Fisher’s hasty retreat through the house after Harrouff allegedly stabbed him five times.

It’s possible the male [John Stevens] was already dead on the floor and the good Samaritan [Fisher] didn’t see him.”
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article97334827.html#storylink=cpy


The prints mark Fisher’s hasty retreat through the house after Harrouff allegedly stabbed him five times.


http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/08/16/fsu-student-suspect-gruesome-double-murder/88829518/



......his personal statement posted on the National Collegiate Scouting Association’s website.

He posted something here - but know nothing about sports, tried playing around on website but it asked stuff I dont know.

http://www.ncsasports.org/college-athletic-scholarships

Joey Bashwiner, 19, said he attends FSU and also went to middle school with Harrouff.
“He seemed like a pretty normal kid,” Bashwiner said. “Nothing wrong — just quiet.”
Bashwiner, who said he isn’t in the same fraternity as Harrouff, said he would see Harrouff in the gym at FSU and last saw him in early June.
“When I saw it was a kid I went to middle school with — he was in my class — shocking,” Bashwiner said. “You would never expect it.”

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...dent-suspect-gruesome-double-murder/88829518/

Austin Harrouff’s Twitter page and a banner photo of teeth is pasted across the top.... infrequently used Twitter account.

For a 19 year old that seems isolated no?

online activity accelerated in the days leading up to the slayings.(Reminds of Omar/Pulse)

referred to himself as Austi Frosti, in original rap music videos. .. thats creepier that means he wrote all those awful lyrics......

To be this thing. To be this symbol. To be this lie.”

“I’d rather cut using a knife and slit my own throat. I’m like Bugs Bunny, I stick my teeth in because it’s funny. I’m like a Looney Tune



http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/08/17/inside-austin-harrouffs-bizarre-online-persona/88918500/

What's up with his obsession with teeth? The only thing I can think is his dad was a dentist.
Anyone out there that profiles? What mental illness/psychosis would cause him to fixate on teeth, biting?

 

[x_files]

Agree -- its not like we are talkiing about 150 yards away--- she apparently did not accidently tase the victim - same skill set!!

I would assume someone eating someones face and stomach is looking down -- she could have gotten close

sounds awful but it is just true - being in an affluent area would change IMO officer behavior - can you imagine what would happen to the cop if she fired in a white neighborhood and accidently shot the homeowner McDonalds here she comes..

on the other end of the spectrrum .....identical behavior occuring in Miami - they shot and saved the poor guy

I would also hope that Le can tell if someone is alive generally speaking.....

moo

My opinion is that they didn't shoot him because he was white and in an affluent neighborhood.
However, I wasn't there and he could have been flaying around in a excited delirious rage and was hard to get a clear shot. They said he had the victim in a bear hug.

 

[ninij9]

What's up with his obsession with teeth? The only thing I can think is his dad was a dentist.
Anyone out there that profiles? What mental illness/psychosis would cause him to fixate on teeth, biting?

Right, like Eff you dad, here's what I'm doing with these perfect teeth you cared spuch about

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[Jax49]

One more thought on the action LE took and didn't take. If they were able to kick the man in the head without harming the victim, how is it they couldn't get a clean shot?

 

[x_files]

Did you see the picture under his profile name? The guy with filed pointy teeth?

He has an obsession with teeth. O_0
A few serial killers bite their victims. Ted Bundy was one of them in a fit of rage.
There might be more to this biting obsession. Anyone versed in abnormal psychology could fill us in?
I'm finding it coming up under sexual sadism.
A fictional character The Toothfairy from The Red Dragon bit his victims.
Was AH obsessed with violent serial killers or?

 

[glf]

BBM

The hospital can't say anything near that specific due to HIPAA.

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R's and R's have become so private that if you called the hospital and told them you were this person's cousin, all they would tell you is he is in ICU in stable condition, sleeping alot. Anything else would be considered confidential. I dealt with that last summer when my oldest son was hospitalized. He's an adult, and in order for the nsg staff to give me medical info they would have to have his consent. It was hard not knowing more, he was in Tex and I was in Kan.

 

[Mollyandme]

He has an obsession with teeth. O_0
A few serial killers bite their victims. Ted Bundy was one of them in a fit of rage.
There might be more to this biting obsession. Anyone versed in abnormal psychology could fill us in?
I'm finding it coming up under sexual sadism.
A fictional character The Toothfairy from The Red Dragon bit his victims.
Was AH obsessed with violent serial killers or?

I'm gonna do some more research on it now but my good friends mom is a dentist and when were in high school and learning about BDD (body dysmorohic disorders) we were talking about it at my friends and her mom told us that it happens in dentistry too with people who become obsessed with their teeth and always think there is something wrong or not perfect about them when in reality they have nice teeth (there's more to it then that but I will have to do more research). I was reminded of BDD in dentistry bc I was thinking maybe AH had some form of it due to reports of the steroids but who knows.

 

[Jax49]

BBM

The hospital can't say anything near that specific due to HIPAA.

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Absolutely agree. The sheriff was very careful to censor himself; what little he knows is protected by the same rules.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

There's more out and WH has done an interview on Dr Phil:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...families-saying-son-never-knowingly-this.html
However, I get the impression that the parents didn't really understand their son. They keep making this big deal about him drinking oil, but that really is the least strange thing that he did. I checked AH YT channel and he says he's on a ketogenic diet, which is a low-carb/high-fat diet with the majority of the diet consisting of oils in one form or another and in general bodybuilders who aren't on this specific diet also go for oils due to the high calorie content anyway. If they say he for instance grunted and growled when he drank it that would be one thing, but him drinking olive oil while being a bodybuilder on a keto diet isn't itself strange, so it seems like the parents didn't understand their son.

 

[Jax49]

Also in regards to shooting Austin. They described him as bear hugging victim. The faces were close together because he was biting him. How on earth do you shoot one and insure not having the bullet go right through him, or miss all together and hit victim? Cops can't have the luxury of thinking through to all of the scenerios, especially in this political climate. They just can't win. Every encounter can lead to them being without a job, charged with shooting, or worse dead themselves (not the case here). So let's get used to cops not shooting right? Isn't this what so many wanted?
Sorry. I just feel for these guys. They came upon a horrific scene that was still active, and of all the things they had to figure out , I bet they all were worried they'd have to shoot and be the Bad guy that killed a mentally ill kid, or missed and hit the victim.
(Sorry, not sorry).


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I agree with almost everything you said. I do second guess LE but I also see their situation. The sheriff earned great respect from me during the case earlier this year. He is a kind caring man doing an almost impossible job.
Regarding shooting the attacker, I don't want to get too graphic but the only option (imo) would have been a contact shot. I'm also curious about the neighbors. Didn't anyone have a gun? Or did they not know it was happening? I guess my part of Florida is much different but here a blood-curdling scream will bring out multiple armed neighbors.

 

[x_files]

One more thought on the action LE took and didn't take. If they were able to kick the man in the head without harming the victim, how is it they couldn't get a clean shot?

Could be they feared public outrage if they shot him since he was unarmed. Fear of lawsuits from affluent parents. The Chief of Police of whoever is in charge knows why they were ordered not to shoot.

 

[glf]

He has an obsession with teeth. O_0
A few serial killers bite their victims. Ted Bundy was one of them in a fit of rage.
There might be more to this biting obsession. Anyone versed in abnormal psychology could fill us in?
I'm finding it coming up under sexual sadism.
A fictional character The Toothfairy from The Red Dragon bit his victims.
Was AH obsessed with violent serial killers or?

With any mental illness, there are many shades of gray. Whether bi-polar, ADD, ADHD, delusional, hallucinogenic, multiple personalities, schizo, and the list goes on. When a person is diagnosed, they may have all the classic symptoms for one type illness, but then have a few more fitting under another illness, or two. With all the things we've heard and discussed, he seems to be no different. For all we know, during his walk he could have decided he was Daniel Boone and had a bear for a pet. Then when attacked John, he could have decided he was no longer Daniel Boone, but he was the bear, therefore, he was biting his "prey" to make certain it was dead. Not a pretty scenario but there rarely are when it comes to mental illness. It's very hard to diagnose and treat people, because everybody is different.

 

[Jax49]

Could be they feared public outrage if they shot him since he was unarmed. Fear of lawsuits from affluent parents. The Chief of Police of whoever is in charge knows why they were ordered not to shoot.

Thinking out loud:

I really don't sense that. To me it seems a difference in policing methods between poor and more affluent communities. Is that a natural development? Probably. Is it right that there is a difference? Of course not. MOO

 

[glf]

There's more out and WH has done an interview on Dr Phil:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...families-saying-son-never-knowingly-this.html
However, I get the impression that the parents didn't really understand their son. They keep making this big deal about him drinking oil, but that really is the least strange thing that he did. I checked AH YT channel and he says he's on a ketogenic diet, which is a low-carb/high-fat diet with the majority of the diet consisting of oils in one form or another and in general bodybuilders who aren't on this specific diet also go for oils due to the high calorie content anyway. If they say he for instance grunted and growled when he drank it that would be one thing, but him drinking olive oil while being a bodybuilder on a keto diet isn't itself strange, so it seems like the parents didn't understand their son.

Yes, olive oil is nutritious, is considered a "good fat", and could certainly make a person gain weight. I don't know how anybody could "drink" it, (I'm picturing somebody taking swigs right out of the bottle) without it making them sick.
I don't use olive oil simply because even a teaspoon drizzled over food will end up making me sick. I discovered coconut oil, and use it for its health benefits, and a real plus is it speeds up your metabolism, actually helps with weight loss or maintenance. The recommended dose is 1tbsp daily. But I also think it also could be fattening if used in abundance. Our bodies constantly adjust to the food we eat, due to the wide variety of food and how the body reacts to breaking it down and extracting the nutrients and fat in our daily intake.

 

[Mollyandme]

There's more out and WH has done an interview on Dr Phil:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...families-saying-son-never-knowingly-this.html
However, I get the impression that the parents didn't really understand their son. They keep making this big deal about him drinking oil, but that really is the least strange thing that he did. I checked AH YT channel and he says he's on a ketogenic diet, which is a low-carb/high-fat diet with the majority of the diet consisting of oils in one form or another and in general bodybuilders who aren't on this specific diet also go for oils due to the high calorie content anyway. If they say he for instance grunted and growled when he drank it that would be one thing, but him drinking olive oil while being a bodybuilder on a keto diet isn't itself strange, so it seems like the parents didn't understand their son.

I feel sympathy for the parents who I'm sure love their son very much, and maybe I'm being cynical but they are very quickly pushing the insanity defense narrative and it's beyond obvious. If, as the father stated to dr. Phil, it's true that AH's personality completely changed two weeks before the killings, and the fathers previous statement that schizophrenia runs in the family is accurate, then I would hope the parents at least made attempts to discuss getting help to AH if he wasn't at the level where he could be baker acted.

Regardless, AH chose to take steroids and I believe he also chose to ingest another drug that has yet to show on tox reports. Whatever mental illness he may or may not have may have predisposed him to trying steroids and /or other substances and may have made him more susceptible to this psychotic episode, or excited delirium, or whatever the latest article is calling his state of mind during the crime. Jmo

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Yes, olive oil is nutritious, is considered a "good fat", and could certainly make a person gain weight. I don't know how anybody could "drink" it, (I'm picturing somebody taking swigs right out of the bottle) without it making them sick.
I don't use olive oil simply because even a teaspoon drizzled over food will end up making me sick. I discovered coconut oil, and use it for its health benefits, and a real plus is it speeds up your metabolism, actually helps with weight loss or maintenance. The recommended dose is 1tbsp daily. But I also think it also could be fattening if used in abundance. Our bodies constantly adjust to the food we eat, due to the wide variety of food and how the body reacts to breaking it down and extracting the nutrients and fat in our daily intake.

This is why I'm saying context is important, like we don't know how much he tried to drink or in what manner he tried to drink. Reading bodybuilder forums for instance I saw someone who said they put olive oil in their orange juice so that it wouldn't taste so bad, but that could look totally bonkers if you saw someone do that and didn't know that was part of their diet. Also something else that isn't clear is if he tried to drink oil twice or once that day, like I've seen it reported that he tried at his mom's house and now it's reported that he tried at the restaurant, so I don't know if it's two different events or a single event, like if he was totally obsessing over it that day.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I feel sympathy for the parents who I'm sure love their son very much, and maybe I'm being cynical but they are very quickly pushing the insanity defense narrative and it's beyond obvious. If, as the father stated to dr. Phil, it's true that AH's personality completely changed two weeks before the killings, and the fathers previous statement that schizophrenia runs in the family is accurate, then I would hope the parents at least made attempts to discuss getting help to AH if he wasn't at the level where he could be baker acted.

Regardless, AH chose to take steroids and I believe he also chose to ingest another drug that has yet to show on tox reports. Whatever mental illness he may or may not have may have predisposed him to trying steroids and /or other substances and may have made him more susceptible to this psychotic episode, or excited delirium, or whatever the latest article is calling his state of mind during the crime. Jmo

I do think that some kind of drug or drugs are the proximate cause of this and so he's criminally culpable, but if things keep going the way they are going with his liver failing and his esophagus having ongoing bleeding (I do believe the parents on the medical status of their son), he's going to get a lifetime penalty for his actions if not the death penalty even if he never steps foot in a court. I think he might also have brain damage, which would match if he has acute hepatic encephalopathy where I could see the hospital not even wanting to bring that up to the parents if they thought the patient might die anyway, so even if his family was willing to do a partial live liver donation, it could effectively be over for him if he's a vegetable or otherwise has a severely degraded brain.