FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #20

[Sparky]

Hi Katydid! We were all discussing the time discrepancies, etc. That's all. It's not that he'd have to be at his dad's in 15 minutes, it's that some media had reported, & others speculated, that it could take about 30 minutes to get to his dad's. Please don't take it out of context as I wouldn't want to promote confusion. I only have my opinion on how he could get there & in what time, then taking into consideration traffic for a school day, etc. Honest speculation...

BBM

This is just about correct. The speed limit is set at 25 thru Belle Isle and with the speed bumps, he could not have made it in 15 mins to Sr's. Even if he went the other way over the Nela Bridge to Orange Ave and then to Oak Ridge. Even tho Google maps say it's approx 9 miles to Sr's you have to account for Orlando traffic, speed limit down Hoffner, (set at 45 I believe) and all the stop lights. If he went the other way down Lee Vista to 436 to Hoffner I'd say it would be at least 30 mins also. jmo

ETA The speed is also monitored going thru Belle isle.

 

[telemag]

We do have some important facts.
-Dale and Michelle had ongoing child support and custody issues.
-And they had some volatile relationship history which included domestic violent incidents.
-Dale had a long criminal history which included some violent assaults.
-Michelle was last seen as she arrived at his condo.


So the FACTS that we do have show they have a violent history together, they were having custody/support issues, and she disappeared after dropping the kids at his condo.

It is very hard for me to believe, that she left the home of the most dangerous man that she knew, the one man that would want her to go away forever, and then was randomly killed by a stranger.

How do you know Dale was or is the most dangerous man she knew? Remember she worked in a bar.

 

[Kamille]

BBM

This is just about correct. The speed limit is set at 25 thru Belle Isle and with the speed bumps, he could not have made it in 15 mins to Sr's. Even if he went the other way over the Nela Bridge to Orange Ave and then to Oak Ridge. Even tho Google maps say it's approx 9 miles to Sr's you have to account for Orlando traffic, speed limit down Hoffner, (set at 45 I believe) and all the stop lights. If he went the other way down Lee Vista to 436 to Hoffner I'd say it would be at least 30 mins also.

ETA The speed is also monitored going thru Belle isle.

So basically, since he claimed to have left around 4:10 - 4:15pm himself according to what he originally told the family, it was impossible for him to have been at his parent's house by 4:30pm.

And if he left at 3:30pm, which would actually be about 10 minutes after Michelle arrived, then he should have been at him parent's home around 4pm. And with technology, cell phones, dash clocks etc, there is no reason for him to be so far off in his timeline.

And if there is no independent witness who doesn't live in the Smith home on Rose Blvd to place him there, then that whole alibi is very questionable anyway.

MOO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Well someone is responsible and it went unnoticed. So why couldn't it be the most likely suspect? I don't understand the reasoning in thinking that because no one saw DSJr doing anything, that we're aware of, that it couldn't have been him. There is no other person with a violent history who had a problem with Michelle....just Dale Smith Jr.

No one ever saw Michelle or that Hummer, with the decals intact, after she arrived at that condo. A non public, quiet, residential place. Where people may have known her or at least her vehicle and yet they did not seem to see her or the vehicle at all. Ironically we had a poster on here who claimed he saw her driving the Hummer prior to her arriving at the condo, I think it was around 3pm. But no one saw her or the Hummer with the decals intact after that time. No one. Not even DSJr who supposedly left "right after her" or "at the same time" as per his attorney, claims to have seen her away from that complex or what direction she went. Which, according to her cell phone, should have been the exact same direction he went. Towards his parent's house. When her own home, or even Waterford Lakes, is in the complete opposite direction.

The alternative would have someone carjacking or abducting her in broad daylight in a very busy area of town, from a very standout type of vehicle, while DSJr was driving in the same direction, likely on the exact same road. What are the odds of that happening?

MOO

Hi Kamille. With all due respect, you don't have to understand it. It's how I feel. Dale could be guilty OR innocent IMO. We all have our own opinions. I've seen enough crimes where attention was put on the most obvious person to be the perp but they still in fact turned out to be innocent. I come from an le family, several friends & acquaintances - I know how things work. I agree that Dale looks like the most obvious perp, but it doesn't mean he is. Based on his criminal past & his altercations with Michelle, of course he'd be le's #1 suspect right from the get-go...still doesn't mean he's guilty. To further explain to you so you don't think I'm being flippant, I have such a deep caring conscience that I truly cannot accuse somebody of being a murderer unless hard core facts are proven to me. I'm being sincere, literally. I believe we can all speculate & make educated guesses, but the fact remains that more concrete evidence needs to be in place in order to secure a conviction. I agree with several aspects from both sides on these threads, guess that makes me neutral - but at least I'm honest. I like research and I'm good at it, that's where I feel proud to be part of Websleuths bc I know it makes a positive difference to be able to contribute. Sooo many posters here lend so much and usually everyone works great together. I'm not the type of poster that tries to even the playing field, I respect and appreciate all opinions even when it differs from mine.

A perfect example, which I gave a couple threads ago, is to look at the Samantha Koenig threads. The most obvious perp was crucified in the media, belittled on every single forum, run through the mud & received multiple death threats to himself & his family - all bc of his horrible criminal history & also bc there was a court case involving rape of Samantha ... Yet he had absolutely nothing at all to do with her disappearance and murder. The person arrested nobody even heard of. Crazy... That's why I try to remain neutral. It's not bc I think Dale is guilty or innocent...it's bc I post with sincerity & conviction. ::grouphug::

 

[Kamille]

How do you know Dale was or is the most dangerous man she knew? Remember she worked in a bar.

She didn't disappear from the bar, or anywhere even close to the bar or even near her own home.

How did someone who "knew" her from the bar know her plans for that day and just how did they manage to accomplish everything, in the very busy and populated Belle Isle area, during broad daylight, after Michelle left the condo? I'd love to hear another theory of how someone else was able to pull this off with the information that we do have.

MOO

 

[Sparky]

So basically, since he claimed to have left around 4:10 - 4:15pm himself according to what he originally told the family, it was impossible for him to have been at his parent's house by 4:30pm.

And if he left at 3:30pm, which would actually be about 10 minutes after Michelle arrived, then he should have been at him parent's home around 4pm. And with technology, cell phones, dash clocks etc, there is no reason for him to be so far off in his timeline.

And if there is no independent witness who doesn't live in the Smith home on Rose Blvd to place him there, then that whole alibi is very questionable anyway.

MOO

This is correct. There is no way to make it to Rose in 15 mins. from Goldenrod and Lee Vista. jmo

 

[katydid23]

How do you know Dale was or is the most dangerous man she knew? Remember she worked in a bar.

She worked in a bar, but none of her customers had kids with her, owed her child support, nor wanted custody of her children.

None of the other 'dangerous' men in her life had ever assaulted her before or threatened her before.

And, she was not LAST SEEN with any of her bar patrons. And NONE of her customers benefited by her disappearance in the way that Dale Jr did.

Imo, nobody else in her life was as dangerous to her well being as Dale Jr was. Nobody else had the motives that he had, nobody else had the opportunity that he did that day either.

What are the odds that she drove safely away from the one man that wanted her gone, only to be mysteriously abducted, in broad daylight, out in public, driving a hummer with huge decals on it? And never to be found again?

 

[telemag]

She didn't disappear from the bar, or anywhere even close to the bar or even near her own home.

How did someone who "knew" her from the bar know her plans for that day and just how did they manage to accomplish everything, in the very busy and populated Belle Isle area, during broad daylight, after Michelle left the condo? I'd love to hear another theory of how someone else was able to pull this off with the information that we do have.

MOO

So what makes Dale so special that he can pull off something like this. It no one else can. I never said anything about this happening where she worked. What if some was following her and when she pulled into a gated community they simply waited till she can back out? Maybe someone was just obsessed with a pretty girl? This happens all the time obviously.

 

[katydid23]

How do you know Dale was or is the most dangerous man she knew? Remember she worked in a bar.

Also, when I say that he is the 'most dangerous' man she knew, I am referring to the fact that they had kids together. She may well have known some dangerous creeps from the bar, but oine of them had the same level of motivation that Dale Jr had, to try and make her disappear. imo

 

[telemag]

She worked in a bar, but none of her customers had kids with her, owed her child support, nor wanted custody of her children.

None of the other 'dangerous' men in her life had ever assaulted her before or threatened her before.

And, she was not LAST SEEN with any of her bar patrons. And NONE of her customers benefited by her disappearance in the way that Dale Jr did.

Imo, nobody else in her life was as dangerous to her well being as Dale Jr was. Nobody else had the motives that he had, nobody else had the opportunity that he did that day either.

What are the odds that she drove safely away from the one man that wanted her gone, only to be mysteriously abducted, in broad daylight, out in public, driving a hummer with huge decals on it? And never to be found again?

What makes you think Dale wanted her gone?

 

[katydid23]

So what makes Dale so special that he can pull off something like this. It no one else can. I never said anything about this happening where she worked. What if some was following her and when she pulled into a gated community they simply waited till she can back out? Maybe someone was just obsessed with a pretty girl? This happens all the time obviously.

Ok, so then what? Someone is waiting for her to pull out of the condo complex....and....?

There is a huge difference between Dale being able to pull this off, considering she was stopped and out of her vehicle and feeling comfortable in regular type of circumstances.
How would a stranger who was following her in his car get the same advantage that Dale had that day?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

She didn't disappear from the bar, or anywhere even close to the bar or even near her own home.

How did someone who "knew" her from the bar know her plans for that day and just how did they manage to accomplish everything, in the very busy and populated Belle Isle area, during broad daylight, after Michelle left the condo? I'd love to hear another theory of how someone else was able to pull this off with the information that we do have.

MOO

No idea... But see that's another problem for me bc I'm not certain that she actually disappeared from Dale's condo. We don't know if there was a quick stop for gas or a market after she left, if she even left alive. With what's released, it just informs us that she wasn't spotted after dropping the kids off to Dale. However, based on security & surveillance cameras in that area, her H3 absolutely has to be on something - actually probably a handful or more - yet it hasn't been publicized. Now either le has footage or they don't. If they don't then I wonder why...

 

[telemag]

Also, when I say that he is the 'most dangerous' man she knew, I am referring to the fact that they had kids together. She may well have known some dangerous creeps from the bar, but oine of them had the same level of motivation that Dale Jr had, to try and make her disappear. imo

How do you know this? Maybe one of those creeps was obsessed with her and while he didn't necessarily want her gone he had no choice but to get rid of her once he got what he wanted

 

[katydid23]

Hi Kamille. With all due respect, you don't have to understand it. It's how I feel. Dale could be guilty OR innocent IMO. We all have our own opinions. I've seen enough crimes where attention was put on the most obvious person to be the perp but they still in fact turned out to be innocent. I come from an le family, several friends & acquaintances - I know how things work. I agree that Dale looks like the most obvious perp, but it doesn't mean he is. Based on his criminal past & his altercations with Michelle, of course he'd be le's #1 suspect right from the get-go...still doesn't mean he's guilty. To further explain to you so you don't think I'm being flippant, I have such a deep caring conscience that I truly cannot accuse somebody of being a murderer unless hard core facts are proven to me. I'm being sincere, literally. I believe we can all speculate & make educated guesses, but the fact remains that more concrete evidence needs to be in place in order to secure a conviction. I agree with several aspects from both sides on these threads, guess that makes me neutral - but at least I'm honest. I like research and I'm good at it, that's where I feel proud to be part of Websleuths bc I know it makes a positive difference to be able to contribute. Sooo many posters here lend so much and usually everyone works great together. I'm not the type of poster that tries to even the playing field, I respect and appreciate all opinions even when it differs from mine.

A perfect example, which I gave a couple threads ago, is to look at the Samantha Koenig threads. The most obvious perp was crucified in the media, belittled on every single forum, run through the mud & received multiple death threats to himself & his family - all bc of his horrible criminal history & also bc there was a court case involving rape of Samantha ... Yet he had absolutely nothing at all to do with her disappearance and murder. The person arrested nobody even heard of. Crazy... That's why I try to remain neutral. It's not bc I think Dale is guilty or innocent...it's bc I post with sincerity & conviction. ::grouphug::

In the Koenig case, she was not last seen at an ex's home, someone she shared kids with, and someone who was in a court battle over support and custody arrangements. That is key to this case, imo.

 

[telemag]

Ok, so then what? Someone is waiting for her to pull out of the condo complex....and....?

There is a huge difference between Dale being able to pull this off, considering she was stopped and out of her vehicle and feeling comfortable in regular type of circumstances.
How would a stranger who was following her in his car get the same advantage that Dale had that day?

What advantage? Even her own mom thought she was carjacked. Maybe somebody bumped her which is common or they simply flagged her down.

 

[katydid23]

How do you know this? Maybe one of those creeps was obsessed with her and while he didn't necessarily want her gone he had no choice but to get rid of her once he got what he wanted

So what did this obsessed guy do? He followed her all day? Followed her through the gates of the condo complex? And she never noticed that?

So how did he get her out of the hummer? And why didn't she ever reply to her son who was home alone, since she drove away from the condo, under her own power? If she left there with no problem then it would take a little while for this stalker to get her to pull over, right? So where would that happen that nobody noticed? And what did he do with his car while he took over the hummer? There must have been two stalkers to make that work, imo.

In my experience with these cases, random stalkers just leave the bodies to be easily found. Why would this stalker answer that text, or hide the body so well, and throw the cell so close to Dale seniors?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

In the Koenig case, she was not last seen at an ex's home, someone she shared kids with, and someone who was in a court battle over support and custody arrangements. That is key to this case, imo.

Yep, that's a good point & I agree with ya, but still not enough to convict.

 

[katydid23]

What advantage? Even her own mom thought she was carjacked. Maybe somebody bumped her which is common or they simply flagged her down.

If someone had bumped her there would have been scratches or dents on her hummer.
And if someone flagged her down, wouldn't that have been noticed? How do you secretly flag a woman in a decal-ed hummer down in daylight in a crowded area?

As to the advantage, imo, dale had a huge advantage. She was blindsided, imo. She was probably not expecting it, and not as wary as she would be if she was out driving around in the city. And he had total privacy, unlike a carjacker.

 

[telemag]

So what did this obsessed guy do? He followed her all day? Followed her through the gates of the condo complex? And she never noticed that?

So how did he get her out of the hummer? And why didn't she ever reply to her son who was home alone, since she drove away from the condo, under her own power? If she left there with no problem then it would take a little while for this stalker to get her to pull over, right? So where would that happen that nobody noticed? And what did he do with his car while he took over the hummer? There must have been toe stalkers to make that work, imo.

In my experience with these cases, random stalkers just leave the bodies to be easily found. Why would this stalker answer that text, or hide the body so well, and throw the cell so close to Dale seniors?

If you are asking me to lay out an exact scenario I can't. If you are asking me to believe that a pretty can't be abducted and or carjacked even when her mom first thought then no I can't believe that. It happens all the time.

 

[artzypantz]

Fact, no one saw Michelle come out of Dale's condo alive. Fact, Dale has a history of violent behavior and Dv against Michelle. Fact, Dale had reason, on the very day Michelle went to his condo and was never seen again, to feel violent rage toward her. Fact, despite agreeing to allow grandma to see the kids, the only possible witnesses, Dale has never allowed her to. Fact: Michelle's vehicle and cell phone were found in locations that indicate a straight line from Dales condo to his parents home.

These facts are evidence. LE may think this circumstantial evidence is not enough to secure a conviction. But that does not mean there is no probable cause for an arrest, nor does it mean, as you suggest, that there are not enough facts to come to a conclusion. My profession is also about facts and evidence. And the facts and evidence in this case lead me to conclude that Dale murdered his ex wife and hid the body.

Post #743 where you are responding to a post from Thor.......Your very first sentence you state as FACT that no one saw michelle come out of dales condo alive.....is what i was refering to.

Thanks for the links. Its always best to support your posted Facts with a link.