FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

[Pias]

Dale likely wants the truth to be found, for the sake of his children. He is just unable to be the one to provide it, and is hoping for help with that.

 

[Thor]

Wouldn't supervised visitations help to insure no slinging of hash? It isn't the adults you can't control here, it is the children, IMO. It is likely possible they hold key information that would be helpful and you can't stop a child from saying what is on their mind. I think THIS is wherein the problem likely lies. Otherwise, I see no real reason to interfere with supervised visits in a controlled environment. To have at least some contact with people that were in your life daily and that you loved and who loved you back, is better than no contact at all. There is no benefit to cutting them off. Dale obviously sees the value of sharing the children with HIS parents. Wasn't it the first place he went after Michelle safely left? To his parents? Within 72 minutes according to the SV of Michelle's arrival and the eyewitnesses who can back up his alibi of having been at his parents house BY 4:30... NOT by 4:43, (which I suspect may be more likely the case, but that's JMO). It wasn't even dark yet. What may have been the rush? I can't say 'off to grandma and grandpas' straight away would be my first choice of what to do with my children when my time with them is so limited. On the other hand, since the time is so limited, Grandma and Grandpa need time with them, too. Hmmm... It seems either side one takes on this issue, a visit with grandparents seems to be in order. Is it possible the problem doesn't lie in the twins seeing grandparents, but rather, in which ones? Though there would seem to be no reasonable explanation for it because Dale is innocent. Right?

Pias, you made so many points here that is difficult, at least for me, to try to answer them adequately within this post, so let me summarize here so that I don't have to write as much as I instinctively would want to.

No one here, to my knowledge, has any real and/or independent accounts of what the particular issues are here, this is a family matter, and as such should remain so. I don't know where "supervised visitations" come into play here since, as said before, we have no independent accounts of what transpired between the two parties either in direct talks or in the presence of legal counsel. IMO

To continue to thrust this kids into issues which are above & beyond the tragedy that occurred 9 months ago, would be a mistake of monumental proportions for these kids and both their families.

 

[notmissing]

To continue to thrust this kids into issues which are above & beyond the tragedy that occurred 9 months ago, would be a mistake of monumental proportions for these kids and both their families.[/QUOTE]

So it's better for them to not see Michelle's family? Sounds like a good way erase Michelle completely from their lives. I guess we can agree to disagree on this issue or maybe I'm just not understanding and that's ok. We are all here for the same thing to find Michelle!

 

[Thor]

While I can see both sides of the issue re whether Dale should allow the twins to spend time with their maternal grandparents, I have trouble understanding why he would avoid doing whatever necessary to clear his name, if he is truly innocent. Even if, for example, he's concerned about other criminal activity he may have been engaging in during the time Michelle went missing, that can be addressed by simply having an attorney with him while he speaks with LE to ensure his legal rights are protected. Given Dale's lengthy criminal history, he knows his way around an interrogation room. He knows how to protect his rights. The fact that he hasn't cooperated fully to the satisfaction of LE makes him look guilty. (I say to the satisfaction of LE because they still declare him to be their primary suspect.)

I understand the importance of looking at an issue from both sides. We had to do that when I was in college and law school. Most often though, the issues we argued then were based on hypothetical facts not real life situations. Here, we're talking about a beautiful mom of three who has been missing for almost an entire year. No one has seen or heard from her since she left Dale's condo. If Dale had nothing to do with Michelle's disappearance, surely he would have done everything in his power to clear his name so the real culprit could be found if he were innocent. The fact that he hasn't done so is powerful evidence of his guilt, in my opinion. JMO, IMO

Where is Michelle?

Assuming Dale is innocent and conversely especially if he is guilty, I still don't understand what people expect him to do. In the same exact situation and especially if I was innocent, I would have done the same thing, actually he gave statements to the police without counsel present and I would have not done so under any circumstances. Assuming Dale has nothing to do with this crime, assuming that MP came and went from his front door, assuming he has no clues as to what happened to MP, then what do any of us expect him to do? Go on national TV to proclaim his innocence? Go out on his own and look for MP himself followed by a camera crew? What if he doesn't care whether MP is dead or alive? What if he likes the idea that MP is dead? Does it make him guilty of murder? Should he talk to the police? About what if he's not involved? And BTW when has the police said DS has not cooperated with the investigation with the possible exception of refusing to take a lie detector test? And about this test ... does any one here think the passing it would stop those asserting him guilty to continue doing so? ... and I can go on here but I don't think it is necessary.

 

[Thor]

To continue to thrust this kids into issues which are above & beyond the tragedy that occurred 9 months ago, would be a mistake of monumental proportions for these kids and both their families.

notmissing;8279980] So it's better for them to not see Michelle's family? Sounds like a good way erase Michelle completely from their lives. I guess we can agree to disagree on this issue or maybe I'm just not understanding and that's ok. We are all here for the same thing to find Michelle!

Of course it is not better for the kids not to see their maternal grandparents, no one has ever said that. Not to involve the kids with their personal issues, no finger pointing, no accusing, not using any visitation issues to club each other over the head, not dragging a personal family matter involving the kids into a national discussion where every John, Dick and Harry can have their go at it, but rather keep it personal, keep it private and start talking to one another in an adult way ... that was the point I have been trying to make in so many different ways and apparently without success.

 

[notmissing]

Assuming Dale is innocent and conversely especially if he is guilty, I still don't understand what people expect him to do. In the same exact situation and especially if I was innocent, I would have done the same thing, actually he gave statements to the police without counsel present and I would have not done so under any circumstances. Assuming Dale has nothing to do with this crime, assuming that MP came and went from his front door, assuming he has no clues as to what happened to MP, then what do any of us expect him to do? Go on national TV to proclaim his innocence? Go out on his own and look for MP himself followed by a camera crew? What if he doesn't care whether MP is dead or alive? What if he likes the idea that MP is dead? Does it make him guilty of murder? Should he talk to the police? About what if he's not involved? And BTW when has the police said DS has not cooperated with the investigation with the possible exception of refusing to take a lie detector test? And about this test ... does any one here think the passing it would stop those asserting him guilty to continue doing so? ... and I can go on here but I don't think it is necessary.

At this point I don't think there is very much he can do to change my personal opinion so I understand what you are saying. I have followed this case from day one and everything I have seen makes me feel the way I do.

The thought of her children not knowing how much mommy loved them and what a beautiful person she was just breaks my heart.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[katydid23]

Thor,

Here is my problem with the way that DS acted after the mother of his kids went missing. Up until that day, his kids had spent nearly every day of their lives in the company of their grandmother and their big brother. THAT is what they considered home. So that is where they should have spent SOME of their grieving time, after their mom went missing. At the beginning, The grandmother was very careful NOT to cast any suspicion or aspersions towards Dale. She wanted to keep their communication open for the sake of the children. But he NEVER let them have any time back in their old home. I think that was very cruel of him. And he did not have their best interests at heart, imo.

 

[Thor]

Thor,

Here is my problem with the way that DS acted after the mother of his kids went missing. Up until that day, his kids had spent nearly every day of their lives in the company of their grandmother and their big brother. THAT is what they considered home. So that is where they should have spent SOME of their grieving time, after their mom went missing. At the beginning, The grandmother was very careful NOT to cast any suspicion or aspersions towards Dale. She wanted to keep their communication open for the sake of the children. But he NEVER let them have any time back in their old home. I think that was very cruel of him. And he did not have their best interests at heart, imo.

Ok, I wish we can now stipulate that of course DS is the meanie one, he doesn't have his own children best interests at heart and let's add that to being a murderer as well, but if I may ask ... in your opinion how is it of any help to those children having their personal issues in this matter of visitations plastered on the internet where people like you and I and others can have a go at it? Assuming both parties would think they are of course right and the other is just plain bad and wrong and mean, and assuming that for every action there is a reaction, that for every tit there is a tat, assuming everybody gets entrenched in their own position and everybody wants to be right how does that help those kids? Isn't it the point that people that need each other can't simply afford to demonize the other? Do you agree that since this is a family issue that involves the children directly, then therefore it should be resolved privately by the parties involved as adults and not a matter for everyone to read on a website or to watch on a tv show? Where is the connection between one party accusing the other, in the national media, of being mean spirited and cruel about the issue of visitations and caring for those kids? How any of it is likely to further a resolution of this issue of so much importance to those kids since they need all the people that love then around, especially now that they all but surely lost their mom? And for how long should the interests of those kids be sacrificed in the altar of self-righteousness of those who are supposed to protect them and care for them?

 

[katydid23]

Ok, I wish we can now stipulate that of course DS is the meanie one, he doesn't have his own children best interests at heart and let's add that to being a murderer as well, but if I may ask ... in your opinion how is it of any help to those children having their personal issues in this matter of visitations plastered on the internet where people like you and I and others can have a go at it? Assuming both parties would think they are of course right and the other is just plain bad and wrong and mean, and assuming that for every action there is a reaction, that for every tit there is a tat, assuming everybody gets entrenched in their own position and everybody wants to be right how does that help these kids? Isn't it the point that people that need each other can't simply afford to demonize the other? Do you agree that since this is a family issue that involves the children directly, then therefore it should be resolved privately by the parties involved as adults and not a matter for everyone to read on a website or to watch on a tv or a radio show?

I think that the three yr olds have no idea what is being said on the internet about their visitation situation.

That is not my point. Of course it would be wonderful if all of this stuff was kept behind closed doors. But Florida is a sunshine state. So that horse has left the barn.

If Dale had any compassion for his children he would have allowed them to sleep a few nights in their old room, and be surrounded by their older brother and their grandma and aunt. Their emotional health should have been his primary concern at that point, imo. Not only did they lose their mom that day, but they were wrenched from every other meaningful relationship they had in their lives. And he has no excuse for doing that , imo.

 

[all4justice]

Assuming Dale is innocent and conversely especially if he is guilty, I still don't understand what people expect him to do. In the same exact situation and especially if I was innocent, I would have done the same thing, actually he gave statements to the police without counsel present and I would have not done so under any circumstances. Assuming Dale has nothing to do with this crime, assuming that MP came and went from his front door, assuming he has no clues as to what happened to MP, then what do any of us expect him to do? Go on national TV to proclaim his innocence? Go out on his own and look for MP himself followed by a camera crew? What if he doesn't care whether MP is dead or alive? What if he likes the idea that MP is dead? Does it make him guilty of murder? Should he talk to the police? About what if he's not involved? And BTW when has the police said DS has not cooperated with the investigation with the possible exception of refusing to take a lie detector test? And about this test ... does any one here think the passing it would stop those asserting him guilty to continue doing so? ... and I can go on here but I don't think it is necessary.

Bolded by me

I believe other websleuthers have pointed to MSM articles or videos that indicate LE has not been satisfied with Dale's level of cooperation. Due to time constraints, I haven't had an opportunity to read the articles myself. If it is true that Dale hasn't cooperated fully with LE requests, he can start by doing that. As I said in my previous post, he can hire an attorney to make sure his legal rights are protected and then go to the police station and provide whatever information LE need to eliminate him as their primary suspect. If he's innocent, that is. Of course, if he is guilty there is nothing more he can do except hold his breath and hope LE never gets enough evidence to arrest him.

Admittedly though, I wrote my post as a concerned citizen and not as a lawyer. It's difficult for me to be emotionally detached with regard to these cases. I can only imagine how painful Michelle's absence is for her children, the Parker family, and all the other family and friends who love her. After seeing how quickly the Mickey Shunick case has been resolved (three months from her disappearance to a LWOP sentence for her killer), it makes me wish for some sort of closure for Michelle's family, and all the other families missing loved ones, too. JMO, IMO

 

[Thor]

I think that the three yr olds have no idea what is being said on the internet about their visitation situation.

That is not my point. Of course it would be wonderful if all of this stuff was kept behind closed doors. But Florida is a sunshine state. So that horse has left the barn.

If Dale had any compassion for his children he would have allowed them to sleep a few nights in their old room, and be surrounded by their older brother and their grandma and aunt. Their emotional health should have been his primary concern at that point, imo. Not only did they lose their mom that day, but they were wrenched from every other meaningful relationship they had in their lives. And he has no excuse for doing that , imo.

There is no sunshine law compelling people involved in a visitation issue to discuss the details of it in public. Insofar that they do, and insofar that they take positions such as the one you just expressed here where one party blames the other , practically speaking, issues do not get resolved. I think this is the basic misunderstanding here. This is not a question of who's right and who's wrong, everyone thinks they're right of course and everyone has an argument they think supports their position, but it is not a question of taking a position and sticking by it, it is not an instance where one tries to win an argument against the other, it is not a zero-sum game, it is not about the "grown-ups" and their "hurt feelings" ... their sense of "righteousness" ... it is not about any of that at all, it is about the children involved, it is about getting things resolved without screaming at each other, without blaming each other, without accusing each other, in other words it is about thinking and acting like adults. Family disputes don't get resolved by "I'm better then you", "I'm right and your wrong", "I'm good and you're evil" or by insulting and maligning the other especially in the public media just because one is so right and the other is so wrong ... any one that does any of it will undoubtedly feel emotionally rewarded of having "gotten back" at the other but that will accomplish nothing and likely make matter much worse ... and who will pay the price are of course the children involved. JMO

 

[Thor]

Bolded by me

I believe other websleuthers have pointed to MSM articles or videos that indicate LE has not been satisfied with Dale's level of cooperation. Due to time constraints, I haven't had an opportunity to read the articles myself. If it is true that Dale hasn't cooperated fully with LE requests, he can start by doing that. As I said in my previous post, he can hire an attorney to make sure his legal rights are protected and then go to the police station and provide whatever information LE need to eliminate him as their primary suspect. If he's innocent, that is. Of course, if he is guilty there is nothing more he can do except hold his breath and hope LE never gets enough evidence to arrest him.

Admittedly though, I wrote my post as a concerned citizen and not as a lawyer. It's difficult for me to be emotionally detached with regard to these cases. I can only imagine how painful Michelle's absence is for her children, the Parker family, and all the other family and friends who love her. After seeing how quickly the Mickey Shunick case has been resolved (three months from her disappearance to a LWOP sentence for her killer), it makes me wish for some sort of closure for Michelle's family, and all the other families missing loved ones, too. JMO, IMO

Assuming DS is innocent and assuming he has no clues as to what happened to MP after she came and went from his front door how does he and his legal counsel "... go to the police station and provide whatever information LE need to eliminate him as their primary suspect."? What information do you think he has and what information do you think LE is seeking and under what circumstances would DS be eliminated from being a suspect? This is particularly confusing to me since being a suspect is not necessarily conditional to anything in particular and it certainly is not conditional to particular evidence gathered or sought, statements made or not made, information disclosed or withheld, etc ... basically DS can be considered a suspect simply because he was the last known person to have seen MP alive and therefore under this one hypothetical circumstance, he would have nothing to offer the police and there are plenty of other scenarios one can imagine where DS would have nothing that he coud provide in order to be eliminated as a suspect since it does get kind of tricky when people might be asked to basically prove their own innocence.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

There is no sunshine law compelling people involved in a visitation issue to discuss the details of it in public. Insofar that they do, and insofar that they take positions such as the one you just expressed here where one party blames the other , practically speaking, issues do not get resolved. I think this is the basic misunderstanding here. This is not a question of who's right and who's wrong, everyone thinks they're right of course and everyone has an argument they think supports their position, but it is not a question of taking a position and sticking by it, it is not an instance where one tries to win an argument against the other, it is not a zero-sum game, it is not about the "grown-ups" and their "hurt feelings" ... their sense of "righteousness" ... it is not about any of that at all, it is about the children involved, it is about getting things resolved without screaming at each other, without blaming each other, without accusing each other, in other words it is about thinking and acting like adults. Family disputes don't get resolved by "I'm better then you", "I'm right and your wrong", "I'm good and you're evil" or by insulting and maligning the other especially in the public media just because one is so right and the other is so wrong ... any one that does any of it will undoubtedly feel emotionally rewarded of having "gotten back" at the other but that will accomplish nothing and likely make matter much worse ... and who will pay the price are of course the children involved. JMO

None of what you describe above was happening until several weeks after Dale refused to allow the kids to see his family.

Up until then, Michelles family kept quiet about the custody issues. Even then, Dale kept the kids away from their long time home.

At some point, after he kept breaking promises and denying them visitation, they made their feelings known publicly.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Hey, I'm popping in again. I just want to say that Michelle Parker disappeared on the same day that a court TV show aired and that the last person to see her is the person who appeared on that show and opposed her. If that person is unrelated to her disappearance, it is the biggest coincidence I have ever heard of.

 

[Thor]

None of what you describe above was happening until several weeks after Dale refused to allow the kids to see his family.

Up until then, Michelles family kept quiet about the custody issues. Even then, Dale kept the kids away from their long time home.

At some point, after he kept breaking promises and denying them visitation, they made their feelings known publicly.

Ok katydid23, clearly I failed to make my point clear before, so I'm going to try one last time. First there is you insisting that this "visitation issue" is DS's fault ... I got it then and I got it now ... you have your opinions, I have mine, others theirs ... all good and well ... got it ... I never argued about who's right and wrong, and I don't care who's right and wrong, and lastly I don't think it even relevant for me to have an opinion about things I know little about and issues that are so obviously complex.

Then there is the point I've been trying to make on more then one occasion and I'm going to reduce this to its lowest common denominator to the extent that I can since I'm exhausted because of the time ...

Below is the people I was referring to ... not me or you and our opinions

DS's family to the left, children in the middle, MP's family on the right.

Insulting each other --> bad
Talking to each other --> good

Accusing each other --> bad
Cooperating with each other --> Good

Going on national TV and such to attack the other --> VERY VERY Bad
Keeping the issue private and try to reach common grounds --> VERY VERY Good

Blaming the other --> Bad
Insisting it's not your fault --> Bad

and I could go on but should not be necessary since it should be clear that this two families don't have the luxury most of us here have to simply fight over every point and be endlessly opinionated, in the real world the finger pointing, the accusations and the "I'm better then you" don't really work, most especially in cases of this nature and where children are the issue. I hope for those children's sake that at some point they all start acting like real adults where those kids are of concern, if they don't then they can blame each other for their collective failures all they want but it won't matter to those kids.

ALL JMO

 

[What'sThatClue]

Well, gee, what did everyone else do to clear themselves with LE? They most likely opened up themselves like a book and accounted for their whereabouts at the time Michelle disappeared. They didn't lawyer up, cover up, refuse to cooperate, etc. They were open and were cleared. So why hasn't Dale been cleared? Why hasn't he encouraged his attorney to get his name cleared?

All JMO.

 

[Pias]

Maybe Dale could answer questions, such as
"If you left when Michelle did, which way did each of you turn out of the complex?"
"If you left when Michelle did, what took you so long to get to your parents house?" That might be a good start.
"What vehicle were you driving when you left, Dale?"
"Was Michelle driving when she left your condo?"
"Dale, what vehicle did Michelle drive away?"
"Dale, was Michelle alone when she drove away?"
"Who had the children after Michelle left?"
"Were the children with them the entire time?"
"When did you last see the children today?"
"List everyone who has had contact with the children since Michelle dropped them off with you."
"Did you go anywhere without the children after getting to your parents house, aside from driving here to meet us?" And this is just for starters.
"who brought the children over to your parents house?"

Are these questions LE has already asked? Are any of these questions Dale refused to answer? I can't see why he wouldn't answer them... unless he couldn't. There are few reasons one could not...

Whether it was any of these questions, or others which Dale could not answer, for reasons known only to him, it would appear LE (justifiably) feels he can.

 

[Kamille]

Assuming Dale is innocent and conversely especially if he is guilty, I still don't understand what people expect him to do. In the same exact situation and especially if I was innocent, I would have done the same thing, actually he gave statements to the police without counsel present and I would have not done so under any circumstances. Assuming Dale has nothing to do with this crime, assuming that MP came and went from his front door, assuming he has no clues as to what happened to MP, then what do any of us expect him to do? Go on national TV to proclaim his innocence? Go out on his own and look for MP himself followed by a camera crew? What if he doesn't care whether MP is dead or alive? What if he likes the idea that MP is dead? Does it make him guilty of murder? Should he talk to the police? About what if he's not involved? And BTW when has the police said DS has not cooperated with the investigation with the possible exception of refusing to take a lie detector test? And about this test ... does any one here think the passing it would stop those asserting him guilty to continue doing so? ... and I can go on here but I don't think it is necessary.

DSJr lied to the family and most likely to LE about what exactly transpired that day. He told the family a story that did not pan out when the evidence was collected. When he was confronted with that evidence and the inconsistencies he refused to take a lie detector test to prove that he was telling the truth, even if he did in fact try to backtrack and tell a more believable story.

At this point, you're right. There isn't much he can do to convince LE and the general public that he is not responsible for what happened to Michelle. He had his opportunity and he did not take advantage of it. Only a guilty person would do that IMO. He didn't and won't work with LE to resolve the discrepancies because he can't IMO. Not without implicating himself in the disappearance and likely death of Michelle.

And anyone who refuses to prove their original "story", or any variation of it, is accurate by taking a lie detector and answering LE questions when discrepancies are discovered and evidence suggests that they are not telling the truth is not co-operating with LE. It's just semantics that LE did not publicly say the words "Dale Smith Jr is not co-operating with the investigation and therefore he has been named the prime suspect in the disappearance/likely death of Michelle Parker". Just naming him the prime suspect after he got a lawyer, refused to answer any more questions and to take a lie detector is enough reason to determine that he chose to stop co-operating.

And after months of sleuthing DSJr, through his own online ramblings, if there is one thing that is evident it's that he cares about how people perceive him...what they think of him if you will. He repeatedly lied in online forums to make himself seem like someone he was not because he cares and he knows the truth about his past is less than stellar. So if he could have, he would have done anything he could to prove his innocence in this matter right off the top. Instead, he left it up to a lawyer who did a pretty poor job of trying to convince the public in a televised interview that he couldn't have done this in the time frame that he and his client think LE is working with. The second time frame that came to light after the original one was shown to be "incorrect".

So when I mention that someone might want to try to get out from under "the umbrella of suspicion", I'm referring to an innocent person. And most, if not all of them would do just that. DSJr did not. He knew they had him in a pack of "mistruths" as soon as that video surveillance was released so he did what most career criminals do. Clammed up and got a lawyer. Who did absolutely nothing to help his client's cause. He announced that he was going to publicly release the findings of his own investigation within weeks to prove his client's innocence. That was 8 months ago. We're still waiting.

MOO

 

[Pias]

It would seem that if Dale left when Michelle did, then a car seat to car seat transfer would have been made, rather than going indoors, due to the limited time there would have been to hustle the children indoors and back out. It would appear to be the only logical reason Michelle would have been there until Dale was in a position to leave, himself. Otherwise, wouldn't Michelle have left, Dale loaded up the kids, and left shortly thereafter? I don't think that is how his recollection of events occurred. Sorry if I am mistaken. Under such a premise, even if the children did go inside for a brief moment, the fact would appear to still remain that Michelle was there until Dale left, or visa versa.. It still would appear to have had Michelle there up and to the moment the children were strapped into Dale's transportation, according to Dale's account.

What vehicle were the children strapped into when they left your condo at the same time as Michelle?
Was Michelle in the same vehicle the children were in when you all left the condo?
Who was driving the vehicle the kids were in when everyone left the condo that day (at the time in question)?
Did you have any company over to your condo anytime during the day Michelle went missing?
If you did have company, Dale, how did they arrive to the condo? Did they drive, walk, ride a bike, get a ride over? If they got a ride over, who gave them that ride? What time were they there? Were they there when Michelle arrived to your condo? Were they there when Michelle left the condo? Did they leave when Michelle did? Were they with Michelle when she left? Did you see ANYONE with Michelle when she left your condo?

If Michelle was parked to the curb, and Dale in the garage or driveway, in the time it would take her to walk back to her Hummer, Dale would have had the time to back out and begin to roll. Who preceded whom? If Michelle lead, did you follow her for any distance, Dale?

 

[Kamille]

Ok katydid23, clearly I failed to make my point clear before, so I'm going to try one last time. First there is you insisting that this "visitation issue" is DS's fault ... I got it then and I got it now ... you have your opinions, I have mine, others theirs ... all good and well ... got it ... I never argued about who's right and wrong, and I don't care who's right and wrong, and lastly I don't think it even relevant for me to have an opinion about things I know little about and issues that are so obviously complex.

Then there is the point I've been trying to make on more then one occasion and I'm going to reduce this to its lowest common denominator to the extent that I can since I'm exhausted because of the time ...

Below is the people I was referring to ... not me or you and our opinions

DS's family to the left, children in the middle, MP's family on the right.

Insulting each other --> bad
Talking to each other --> good

Accusing each other --> bad
Cooperating with each other --> Good

Going on national TV and such to attack the other --> VERY VERY Bad
Keeping the issue private and try to reach common grounds --> VERY VERY Good

Blaming the other --> Bad
Insisting it's not your fault --> Bad

and I could go on but should not be necessary since it should be clear that this two families don't have the luxury most of us here have to simply fight over every point and be endlessly opinionated, in the real world the finger pointing, the accusations and the "I'm better then you" don't really work, most especially in cases of this nature and where children are the issue. I hope for those children's sake that at some point they all start acting like real adults where those kids are of concern, if they don't then they can blame each other for their collective failures all they want but it won't matter to those kids.

ALL JMO

DSJr was a part time father at best. The children did not live with him for any length of time that they would remember and their home was with their mother, older brother and maternal family.

IMO, family is not just about biology. Those children were taken from their home and family and placed with DSJr because he is the biological parent. Adding insult to injury, his violent criminal past and suspect designation in the disappearance/likely death of the children's mother were not taken into consideration by the residing judge. I'll repeat once again that children are not possessions and decisions like this should not be made based on who the children "belong" to biologically.

DSJr is behaving like a petulant child in regards to those children and their ability to have contact with their maternal family. He IS using them as pawns because after weeks of no contact with those children and LE publicly naming him as a suspect, the family had the audacity to answer truthfully to reporter's questions about whether they were being given the opportunity to see them. Even after YS hugged him at that court hearing and pretty much begged him to keep the lines of communication open and let her see the children, he pretty much slammed that door in her face at the first opportunity.

So he's basically telling them that either they believe him and disregard what LE thinks or they don't see the children. Don't answer any questions regarding him in any media interviews and don't bring any public awareness to the fact that Michelle is still missing and he is still the prime suspect. Emotional blackmail. No surprise there. And if they behave then they might get to see the children...when it suits his purpose.

I can't even begin to wrap my head around what a mistake that judge made.

MOO