FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

[Thor]

I bet if you put your mind to it Thor, you could have been an NBA all star.
That bald head of yours would fit in the NBA BTW...lol

For Dale....It is all about control. You control what you can control and try to keep your mistakes/witnesses etc to the LOWEST common denominator...

On day of PC airing: This is the most unexpected day so why not? Expect the unexpected. She could have run away out of embarrassment...giving him some shield for a period of time. He was really upset with her and planned to kill her someday. This was as good of a day as any. He knew suspicion would always come back to him. If he hid the body well...he figured no body, no arrest.

Why at the condo: no witnesses in the privacy of his own home. If he is careful and calculated he can avoid leaving DNA evidence and within the privacy of his garage he can avoid witnesses.

Time of day: this probably works more to his advantage rather than against if a majority of his neighbors were working like he SHOULD have been on a Thursday afternoon.

Kids at scene: It is within the realm of possibilities that Dale had help. With or without help, if he got Michelle away from the children he could have drugged or incapacitated her and quickly put her in bed of his truck or the van without detection. Kids wouldn't have seen a thing. If someone was at condo watching PC episode with Dale, they could have occupied twinners.

Again I am not 100% on pre-meditation...I still LEAN that way but I leave open the possibility that he attacked Michelle and was forced to follow through with killing her on fear of (third strike law). She had the goods on him and was going to tell the world a "secret" he had been hiding IMO... If he does the deed away from his condo on any other day and time, he simply risks witnesses seeing his evilness.

All JMO

How do you know what I look like? Now that is an interesting question never mind I got it ... and no I could never be an NBA All Stars, believe you me :floorlaugh:

As for the reasons as to why DS might have planned this at his condo I just don't buy them as reasonable at all but that is a matter of opinion of course.

To think that one purposely positions oneself to be that last known person to have seen the victim is to believe it reasonable that one would position oneself to be suspect #1 with some cause; At one's own house ... really? Any evidence left behind there would be damming. While his own kids are at the scene? Like one can predict with a good degree of certainty what a couple of 3 years old might or might not do, hear or not hear? Around 4pm? There is not even a logical explanation why would Michelle get inside the condo as she drops off the kids on her way to somewhere else. And to have done all of it without leaving any evidence behind? No witnesses? Nothing? He manages to make her disappear in thin air a la Houdini? And what secret you keep referring to?
Has this secret been reported by anyone anywhere in the media? Has this secret been reported by anyone as a possible motive? What are these "goods" you keep referring to that Michelle might have had on him? Where any of it has been reported, never mind as a matter of fact, but even as a matter of speculation?

I think that we have had this discussion before But IMO one cannot simply make up stuff from scratch to justify a theory, and even when so, how does one arrive to a definitive conclusion of guilty knowing that any of it cannot be supported by anything tangible let alone actual evidence? I can envision scenarios where Dale kills Michelle, as others where he doesn't, and one can surely debate the reasonability of each but under what circumstances one gets to know for certain here? For example, in the MP Facebook page the question was asked whether or not people thought DS was guilty and out of about 200 only a handful asserted they thought he was guilty, that followed an acknowledgement from a member of the family (can't remember who right now and I 'm paraphrasing) that they understood how people would be on the fence here and perhaps would be inclined (the visitors) to wait for actual evidence to be known, which it seemed to me a fair response to an understandable result .

JMO

 

[Thor]

You have a copy of Dale's phone records? Were there any incoming calls between 4:30 and 7:30pm? TIA.

I think the issue raised by missingm was where are the records that indicate DS did not answer phone calls between 4:30pm and 7:30pm when an allegation is made that such calls were made and more importantly that he did not answered them, specifically where the issue is a matter of fact and not just opinion.

I think these type of issues often arise from the practice of how and where we often use the various JMOs, IMO etc ...

If a post contains the following:

1. Dale is a male.
2. Michelle is missing.
3. Pigs fly.

JMO

and since that at the end we put the usual "JMO" ... given enough time and repetition, and where the opinions and facts are not as clearly distinguishable as in the example above, one can reasonably start wondering about which is which as a practical matter.

 

[Jazzmaster]

How do you know what I look like? Now that is an interesting question never mind I got it ... and no I could never be an NBA All Stars, believe you me :floorlaugh:

As for the reasons as to why DS might have planned this at his condo I just don't buy them as reasonable at all but that is a matter of opinion of course.

To think that one purposely positions oneself to be that last known person to have seen the victim is to believe it reasonable that one would position oneself to be suspect #1 with some cause; At one's own house ... really? Any evidence left behind there would be damming. While his own kids are at the scene? Like one can predict with a good degree of certainty what a couple of 3 years old might or might not do, hear or not hear? Around 4pm? There is not even a logical explanation why would Michelle get inside the condo as she drops off the kids on her way to somewhere else. And to have done all of it without leaving any evidence behind? No witnesses? Nothing? He manages to make her disappear in thin air a la Houdini? And what secret you keep referring to?
Has this secret been reported by anyone anywhere in the media? Has this secret been reported by anyone as a possible motive? What are these "goods" you keep referring to that Michelle might have had on him? Where any of it has been reported, never mind as a matter of fact, but even as a matter of speculation?

I think that we have had this discussion before But IMO one cannot simply make up stuff from scratch to justify a theory, and even when so, how does one arrive to a definitive conclusion of guilty knowing that any of it cannot be supported by anything tangible let alone actual evidence? I can envision scenarios where Dale kills Michelle, as others where he doesn't, and one can surely debate the reasonability of each but under what circumstances one gets to know for certain here? For example, in the MP Facebook page the question was asked whether or not people thought DS was guilty and out of about 200 only a handful asserted they thought he was guilty, that followed an acknowledgement from a member of the family (can't remember who right now and I 'm paraphrasing) that they understood how people would be on the fence here and perhaps would be inclined (the visitors) to wait for actual evidence to be known, which it seemed to me a fair response to an understandable result .

JMO

I would say in the words of The Mighty Thor, "I sense an aura of evil over the City. I feel it lurking, ready to pounce! I cannot pinpoint its presence... but whenever it strikes, Thor shall be ready!" You are always ready like a YouTube star! I do enjoy our debates VERY much so...

As for fences you are either for God or the devil as the devil owns the fence. I don't fence sit! I do believe Dale is an evil one and he has committed murderous acts. That is just my opinion and may or may not be fact. I do believe Dale planned this in advance so he didn't have to pay child care and because Michelle was about to release the "goods"...a secret so disturbing to Dale that even mention of it would cause him to defend himself. JMO of course .

When one plans a disappearance like your friend Houdini...it is all about smoke and mirrors and not everything is as it appears for a reason. Illusion, deceit, lies, and shenanigans...exactly what the Smith family is about! They are a family of druggies, crooks, theives, and liars capable and willing to make people disappear.

As for MOST polls I am sorry I do not put much stock in them as most are biased and provide little value. For example current news polls show Obama and Romney in dead heat. Do I really care what USA Today and general polls tell me? No!!! Instead I will take private poll data from within a campaign any day of the week. Registered voters is where it's at! And for bonus points...this election will not be a close one IMO....

all opinions on here are one granny's opinion.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I think the issue raised by missingm was where are the records that indicate DS did not answer phone calls between 4:30pm and 7:30pm when an allegation is made that such calls were made and more importantly that he did not answered them, specifically where the issue is a matter of fact and not just opinion.

I think these type of issues often arise from the practice of how and where we often use the various JMOs, IMO etc ...

If a post contains the following:

1. Dale is a male.
2. Michelle is missing.
3. Pigs fly.

JMO

and since that at the end we put the usual "JMO" ... given enough time and repetition, and where the opinions and facts are not as clearly distinguishable as in the example above, one can reasonably start wondering about which is which as a practical matter.

Great points! I do believe Dale is male, he is responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets away with it. JMO

 

[Thor]

I would say in the words of The Mighty Thor, "I sense an aura of evil over the City. I feel it lurking, ready to pounce! I cannot pinpoint its presence... but whenever it strikes, Thor shall be ready!" You are always ready like a YouTube star! I do enjoy our debates VERY much so...

As for fences you are either for God or the devil as the devil owns the fence. I don't fence sit! I do believe Dale is an evil one and he has committed murderous acts. That is just my opinion and may or may not be fact. I do believe Dale planned this in advance so he didn't have to pay child care and because Michelle was about to release the "goods"...a secret so disturbing to Dale that even mention of it would cause him to defend himself. JMO of course .

When one plans a disappearance like your friend Houdini...it is all about smoke and mirrors and not everything is as it appears for a reason. Illusion, deceit, lies, and shenanigans...exactly what the Smith family is about! They are a family of druggies, crooks, theives, and liars capable and willing to make people disappear.

As for MOST polls I am sorry I do not put much stock in them as most are biased and provide little value. For example current news polls show Obama and Romney in dead heat. Do I really care what USA Today and general polls tell me? No!!! Instead I will take private poll data from within a campaign any day of the week. Registered voters is where it's at! And for bonus points...this election will not be a close one IMO....

all opinions on here are one granny's opinion.

I referred at that particular poll at the MP's Facebook page only insofar that he was an indication to me that people generally and understandably would be undecided on the single issue of the actual innocence or guilty of a particular suspect, as a matter of fact as it relates to this particular poll, one can then have one's own opinions on polls in general and their reliability or lack thereof but that was not my point to begin with.

I have no opinions about God and the Devil (as you mentioned) as it relates to this case in particular and I'm not clear as to the relevance of it all where the issue might be somebody being guilty of a crime or not. IMO We were talking about evidences, opinions, theories and such, not matters of religion or politics although I would love to debate you on both in another setting. Also where the issue goes to broad statements such as "... They are a family of druggies, crooks, theives, and liars capable and willing to make people disappear." I'm not sure, in all sincerity, where the exchange of ideas goes from there.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I referred at that particular poll at the MP's Facebook only insofar that he was an indication to me that people understandably would be undecided on the single issue of the actual innocence or guilty of a particular suspect, as a matter of fact as it relates to this particular poll, one can then have one's own opinions on polls in general and their reliability or lack thereof but that was not my point to begin with.

I have no opinions about God and the Devil (as you mentioned) as it relates to this case in particular and I'm not clear as to the relevance of it all where the issue might be somebody being guilty of a crime or not. IMO We were talking about evidences, opinions, theories and such, not matters or religion or politics although I would love to debate you on both in another setting. Also where the issue goes to broad statements such as "... They are a family of druggies, crooks, theives, and liars capable and willing to make people disappear." I'm not sure, in all sincerity, where the exchange of ideas goes from there.

It shows the capability and capacity of that family to premediate a murder and cover up its crimes. My point was neither about politics nor religion but the mere guilt and evilness of a man called Dale Smith who thus far is a free man...but those days are numbered and he will be convicted by a jury of his peers. That is one poll I do care about as the jurors vote Michelle is still out there and she deserves to be brought home. The Smiths should do the right thing and "act" like decent human beings...but like you said pigs will probably fly before that happens.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Thor, you mentioned last week that you had an alternative theory and you'd share this week... Are you ready yet? Just wondering....

 

[Thor]

Great points! I do believe Dale is male, he is responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets away with it. JMO

That of course had really nothing to do with my point since I was referring to the issue raised by missingm of the existence or not of factual records indicating calls were made to DS between 4:30pm and 7:30pm and whether or not he had answered them or not, nor did it speak to my point as to how sometimes it might be confusing trying to separate facts from opinions.

Furthermore, where the issue is again a broad statement such as "... I do believe Dale is male, he is responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets away with it" I'm sincerely still at a loss of where the conversation goes from there since an counter-statement of the same broad nature would go like this: "I do believe Dale is male, he is not responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets convicted of it" which might be equally satisfying from a different point of view but not terribly relevant from a practical one.

 

[Jazzmaster]

That of course had really nothing to do with my point since I was referring to the issue raised by missingm of the existence or not of factual records indicating calls were made to DS between 4:30pm and 7:30pm and whether or not he had answered them or not, nor did it speak to my point as to how sometimes it might be confusing trying to separate facts from opinions.

Furthermore, where the issue is again a broad statement such as "... I do believe Dale is male, he is responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets away with it" I'm sincerely still at a loss of where the conversation goes from there since an counter-statement of the same broad nature would go like this: "I do believe Dale is male, he is not responsible for Michelle going missing and pigs will fly before he gets convicted of it" which might be equally satisfying from a different point of view but not terribly relevant from a practical one.

Personally...I like the variety of OPINIONS on here. It is what keeps me here each day as we try to bring our beloved Michelle home. To be honest... I believe all our discussions are helpful in finding Michelle and in bringing Dale to justice. In due time he will get what he has coming... Just as the sun surely rises and sets I am that certain that Dale some day some time will be held accountable for his actions. Eyes have seen and the evidence is there...so when it all comes together Dale can only seek forgiveness and try to pay for his crimes. Redemption and justice will be our celebration together as a family! JMO

 

[Thor]

It shows the capability and capacity of that family to premediate a murder and cover up its crimes. My point was neither about politics nor religion but the mere guilt and evilness of a man called Dale Smith who thus far is a free man...but those days are numbered and he will be convicted by a jury of his peers. That is one poll I do care about as the jurors vote Michelle is still out there and she deserves to be brought home. The Smiths should do the right thing and "act" like decent human beings...but like you said pigs will probably fly before that happens.

God and Evil are religious figures, Obama and Romney are political figures, when both are used in the context of this case you are making a correlation there which in my opinion is not there. And why should you deny that you would make such a comparison either rightly or wrongly, if one is convinced that Dale is guilty then it makes sense to characterize him as Evil, my point was when the issue goes to such broad statements of sure guilt, I'm not sure where the conversation goes from there obliviously, especially when one can make an equally broad statement to the contrary, as I indicated in another post, which in turn makes both points rather irrelevant. The relevance was the point not anything else

 

[Jazzmaster]

God and Evil are religious figures, Obama and Romney are political figures, when both are used in the context of this case you are making a correlation there which in my opinion is not there. And why should you deny that you would make such a comparison either rightly or wrongly, if one is convinced that Dale is guilty then it makes sense to characterize him as Evil, my point was when the issue goes to such broad statements of sure guilt, I'm not sure where the conversation goes from there obliviously, especially when one can make an equally broad statement to the contrary, as I indicated in another post, which in turn makes both points rather irrelevant. The relevance was the point not anything else

I am sorry I am not following your point. Must be my arthritis pain today. It is bad with the rain....But I do respect what you say even though sometimes I don't follow the logic but you still ROCK! :yourock:

 

[Jazzmaster]

SO...where is Michelle? Praying for you dear! May you come home soon and Dale pay for this. We will NGU!

 

[Thor]

I am sorry I am not following your point. Must be my arthritis pain today. It is bad with the rain....But I do respect what you say even though sometimes I don't follow the logic but you still ROCK! :yourock:

LOL Jazz, there is not a mean bone between you and me, and that is the way it should be, and I'm appreciative that you bother to engage me to begin with, I always feel that one of the worst thing in life is not being acknowledged and not that people necessarily agree or not agree with your opinions. I suspect we don't agree on many things generally, probably also because of our upbringing as I grew up in Old Europe where Democrats would be considered right wingers and Republicans people not even their own mothers would vote for, and that is if I'm permitted here a brief sociopolitical context to my point.

In any case ... I like you too Jazz, and before we go into a tear jerking situation here let's end this hugFest and strongly disagree on the issues here since it makes for a much more interesting conversation

 

[TxLady2]

I'm not following you here. Michelle was missing after arriving at Dale's and no one called Dale to see where Michelle was... This was discussed up thread several times... Not sure which thread but Dale was certainly unable to be reached between 4:30 and at least 7:30.

I am not beng snarky, but how do we know he was unable to be reached from that time, if no one tried to call him during those hours? Just curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion. Or perhaps I am confused? Sorry, don't mean to offend.

I read here almost every day, though I don't post a lot because following the conversation between some of you is more interesting, plus I'm almost blind in one eye (macular degeneration) so I lurk now more than I participate.

 

[Thor]

TXLady2, I have two cousins with the same "Macular Degeneration" disease. Good research is being done as we speak ... my best wishes to you.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I still say the timing of the phone being found is a bit hinky... LE searched for Michelle's iphone from Nov 17 until Dec 7th, then LE questions Sr under oath and they find the phone the same day? Hmmm....


"December 7 – Smith’s father, Dale Smith Sr., was questioned under oath at the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office.

Parker’s family announced her missing iPhone 4 has been found, along with the pink, black and white case that she kept it in. According to the missing woman’s mother, family members were asked to identify the cell phone at the Orlando Police Department. Police did not say where the cell phone was located." via MLP Network Media Library (timeline)

 

[Jazzmaster]

I just got off the line with Guiseppa one of my friends from my Knitting club. She is a real peach in every sense of the word... She asked me something I couldn't answer...does anyone know this: Can Michelle's family sue Dale for wrongful death and at least get him into court to spill the beans? Any attorneys or legal friendly peeps have any input? I think Guiseppa had a good idea. She is a smart cookie...

 

[Thor]

I still say the timing of the phone being found is a bit hinky... LE searched for Michelle's iphone from Nov 17 until Dec 7th, then LE questions Sr under oath and they find the phone the same day? Hmmm....


"December 7 – Smith’s father, Dale Smith Sr., was questioned under oath at the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office.

Parker’s family announced her missing iPhone 4 has been found, along with the pink, black and white case that she kept it in. According to the missing woman’s mother, family members were asked to identify the cell phone at the Orlando Police Department. Police did not say where the cell phone was located." via MLP Network Media Library (timeline)

If the implication is that there is somehow a correlation between a statement under oath by Sr. to the police and the finding of the iphone, then the question must be asked what is it exactly? Why a statement under oath of Sr. would lead to the finding of the iphone? Can someone come up with a theory where such a correlation can be made and what would be the circumstances of it? Or is it yet another example that "if the dog barks and then it rains, then the dog made it rain"?

And isn't true that Sr. was under no legal obligations to give the police any statements, either under oath or otherwise but nevertheless did so as did DS? And what can be inferred by that as well in the context of the phone being found?

 

[Thor]

I just got off the line with Guiseppa one of my friends from my Knitting club. She is a real peach in every sense of the word... She asked me something I couldn't answer...does anyone know this: Can Michelle's family sue Dale for wrongful death and at least get him into court to spill the beans? Any attorneys or legal friendly peeps have any input? I think Guiseppa had a good idea. She is a smart cookie...

Although I'm not a lawyer, IMO .... not a chance, it would be standard practice of any DA to have the family of an alleged victim suing a suspect for wrongful death and one could kiss the 5th amendment to the constitution goodbye and other constitutional guarantees afforded to a suspect or a defendant in a criminal case. Also the idea for a judge here would be that if the DA does not prosecute, let alone convict a defendant, then there's not enough evidence for a civil trial as well and the case would be dismissed. Usually such civil action comes after a trial where the defendant is either found guilty or not guilty, and where the evidence are a matter of public records and can be used in a civil action. JMO

Addendum: My statement here on the 5th amendment is incorrect.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Although I'm not a lawyer, IMO .... not a chance, it would be standard practice of any DA to have the family of an alleged victim suing a suspect for wrongful death and one could kiss the 5th amendment to the constitution goodbye and other constitutional guarantees afforded to a suspect or a defendant in a criminal case. Also the idea for a judge here would be that if the DA does not prosecute, let alone convict a defendant, then there's not enough evidence for a civil trial as well and the case would be dismissed. Usually such civil action comes after a trial where the defendant is either found guilty or not guilty, and where the evidence are a matter of public records and can be used in a civil action. JMO

See that's what I told her...I was thinking the same thing, but then she brought up the OJ case and how the family sued OJ and won despite his acquittal and that's where I got confused...maybe because at least the OJ case first went to trial?