FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[Jazzmaster]

Dale had a "friend" Justin who committed suicide in 2006....They used to rendezvous in Moss Park. JMO Now Justin's anniversary was around the time Dale made Michelle disappear IMO... Moss Park is within 5 miles of Dale's condo. Check out the photo below of the area. Now I wonder if this is a spot Dale may have hidden Michelle with Justin prob on his mind.

 

[captdj]

Dale had a "friend" Justin who committed suicide in 2006....They used to rendezvous in Moss Park. JMO Now Justin's anniversary was around the time Dale made Michelle disappear IMO... Moss Park is within 5 miles of Dale's condo. Check out the photo below of the area. Now I wonder if this is a spot Dale may have hidden Michelle with Justin prob on his mind.

You know its possible....because Hailey Dunn was found also just off a dirt rd she was not hidden but in the open and someone walking by looking for fossills found her....

Everyday I check to see if Michelle is found.

 

[Thor]

I think it's worth looking for Michelle anywhere and for whatever reason she might be found here or there, however, for the sake of bringing Dale back into the picture as the one responsible for her disappearance I don't think it makes much sense that he would hide Michelle in a place where there was a connection to himself. To have to hide a body must not be one of the most straightforward of propositions especially if the intent is to checkmate people bent on finding it, to then choosing such a place with the intent to make a statement of sort with some subliminal undertones on top of it seems to me more of the stuff TV movies are made of then anything resembling real life. In any case, strangest things have happened in life I suppose, and just about anything is theoretically possible.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I think it's worth looking for Michelle anywhere and for whatever reason she might be found here or there, however, for the sake of bringing Dale back into the picture as the one responsible for her disappearance I don't think it makes much sense that he would hide Michelle in a place where there was a connection to himself. To have to hide a body must not be one of the most straightforward of propositions especially if the intent is to checkmate people bent on finding it, to then choosing such a place with the intent to make a statement of sort with some subliminal undertones on top of it seems to me more of the stuff TV movies are made of then anything resembling real life. In any case, strangest things have happened in life I suppose, and just about anything is theoretically possible.

Well most killers get caught because they are connected to the killing so I am not following your logic here...often killers slip up somewhere and leave evidence or dispose of a body in a place that ultimately links them to the death. If every killer thought more about "what makes sense" they would never get caught BUT the truth of the matter is many DO get caught and I believe this will be the case with Dale.

IMO He will eventually be tied to Michelle's death and convicted of her murder because of some link or connection. Now on this matter...I do believe Justin is somehow tied to the case and may have been struggling with something "coming out" just like Dale may be hiding a secret or two. His "cousin's" suicide may have been on Dale's mind around the time he planned to make Michelle disappear. Sometimes tragic anniversary's trigger irrational behavior...I bet if we search this avenue more there could be much to find. All JMO

 

[Thor]

Well most killers get caught because they are connected to the killing so I am not following your logic here...often killers slip up somewhere and leave evidence or dispose of a body in a place that ultimately links them to the death. If every killer thought more about "what makes sense" they would never get caught BUT the truth of the matter is many DO get caught and I believe this will be the case with Dale.

IMO He will eventually be tied to Michelle's death and convicted of her murder because of some link or connection. Now on this matter...I do believe Justin is somehow tied to the case and may have been struggling with something "coming out" just like Dale may be hiding a secret or two. His "cousin's" suicide may have been on Dale's mind around the time he planned to make Michelle disappear. Sometimes tragic anniversary's trigger irrational behavior...I bet if we search this avenue more there could be much to find. All JMO

Killers (that are caught) tend to be familiar with the victim or know the victim somehow and that is not to say that they are caught because of it. Random murders are more difficult to solve then otherwise clearly because a connection to the victim, especially when opportunity and motive exist, exposes the perp to much more questions and scrutiny by the police thus maximizing the chances of discovery ...

... hence ... I only meant to say that it's not so straightforward to expect a killer to hide a body in a place where there's a connection to himself and that is not to say that some don't indeed do just that. However, most murders like most crimes are never solved, and that is precisely because perps act rationally and tend to cover their tracks effectively, not that it would be apparent if one mainly considers those who get caught. In this case in particular, whether this perp is Dale or someone else, I believe there can be no doubt that this criminal(s) unfortunately acted very rationally, and that by now ought to be clear to anyone IMO.

Lastly, I'm so completely at a loss about this "coming out" of Justin and his "struggle" with it, therefore I can't comment on it anymore that I could comment of Dale's own "coming out" and struggles as you have suggested on more then one occasion. I have no knowledge of this issue and I'm confident neither have anyone else, although admittedly I've been wrong before.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Killers (that are caught) tend to be familiar with the victim or know the victim somehow and that is not to say that they are caught because of it. Random murders are more difficult to solve then otherwise clearly because a connection to the victim, especially when opportunity and motive exist, exposes the perp to much more questions and scrutiny by the police thus maximizing the chances of discovery ...

... hence ... I only meant to say that it's not so straightforward to expect a killer to hide a body in a place where there's a connection to himself and that is not to say that some don't indeed do just that. However, most murders like most crimes are never solved, and that is precisely because perps act rationally and tend to cover their tracks effectively, not that it would be apparent if one mainly considers those who get caught. In this case in particular, whether this perp is Dale or someone else, I believe there can be no doubt that this criminal(s) unfortunately acted very rationally, and that by now ought to be clear to anyone IMO.

Lastly, I'm so completely at a loss about this "coming out" of Justin and his "struggle" with it, therefore I can't comment on it anymore that I could comment of Dale's own "coming out" and struggles as you have suggested on more then one occasion. I have no knowledge of this issue and I'm confident neither have anyone else, although admittedly I've been wrong before.

Still not sure what you are saying....Many killers often dump bodies in places from their past rather than a random place. This is oftenbecause it is a place they are familiar with increasing their confidence and control in the situation. I believe this is the case with Dale. He hid Michele in a place he knew well and would be difficult for someone to randomly stumble upon her.

As for coming out, maybe now that it is more popular Dale can feel more comfortable being himself and not hiding his secrets. I am sure there is much more to this story that Dale can shed light on.

 

[Thor]

Still not sure what you are saying....Many killers often dump bodies in places from their past rather than a random place. This is oftenbecause it is a place they are familiar with increasing their confidence and control in the situation. I believe this is the case with Dale. He hid Michele in a place he knew well and would be difficult for someone to randomly stumble upon her.

As for coming out, maybe now that it is more popular Dale can feel more comfortable being himself and not hiding his secrets. I am sure there is much more to this story that Dale can shed light on.

Jazz, let me rephrase it ... if you base your theory on murders that have been solved then surely you'd find cases where there's a direct connection between the perp and the place where the body was hidden or left behind, and that is undoubtedly the stuff many cases are solved with. However, the rate of murders solved is between 30% and 80% depending on the region, the type of murder, and the particular official count methodology. Generally murders are practically solved within a short period of time, since a lot of murders are pretty straightforward. In 2007 one statistic report 61% unsolved murder cases, here, more recently the number of unsolved murders is sharply on the rise ... here.

Missing person statistics are much more disheartening because murders where there's a deliberate effort to hide evidence are much more difficult to solve provided that the methodology is driven by such factors as opportunity and cunning know-how.

Particularly in this case, this perp(s) went to a great deal of effort to get rid of the evidence, ... no fingerprints, no DNA, no eyewitnesses, nothing .... then why would he then hide Michelle's body somewhere where there's a direct connection to himself? That doesn't fit at all this perp's profile ... does it? If the perp is indeed Dale, surely he must have known that the police would check, re-check, analyze, probe, evaluate examine and so on, all that was his and connected to himself ... so why would he then knowingly leave clues around for the police to find after he so meticulously got rid of all compelling evidence? In other words, if one anticipates to be suspect #1, why get rid of the knife, the body, the fingerprints, the blood and all other DNA evidence, but then bury the body in one's own backyard or any place where there is a somewhat direct connection to oneself? And that is notwithstanding whatever psychological and logistical advantages one might gain in operating within familiar territorial confinements. as you suggested. Sure everything is possible, human psychology is generally complex, true enough, and there's always plenty of anecdotal evidence for all of it ... but surely it cannot be the default expectation, especially in this case, yes? If there's clear evidence of efforts to confuse and conceal, then the whole of the hypothesis must follow that logic save evidence to the contrary, where evidence is the operative word here and where it's kind is of the established and not of the imaginary IMO.

In sum, as it often is the case with his detractors, depending on this particular theory or that one Dale is portrayed either as this cunning perp so adept in hiding evidence or as this simpleton more apt to be pray of his emotions then to cover the tracks of his misdeeds which surely will bring the police to his arrest tomorrow, in the near future ... soon enough, and sometimes both in the very same theory, however, while almost anything is possible where theories are of concern, and understanding that almost always it's neither black nor white but any shades in between, consistency is nevertheless one of the metrics for sound reasoning IMO, because as they say, often times one can't have it both ways.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Jazz, let me rephrase it ... if you base your theory on murders that have been solved then surely you'd find cases where there's a direct connection between the perp and the place where the body was hidden or left behind, and that is undoubtedly the stuff many cases are solved with. However, the rate of murders solved is between 30% and 80% depending on the region, the type of murder, and the particular official count methodology. Generally murders are practically solved within a short period of time, since a lot of murders are pretty straightforward. In 2007 one statistic report 61% unsolved murder cases, here, more recently the number of unsolved murders is sharply on the rise ... here.

Missing person statistics are much more disheartening because murders where there's a deliberate effort to hide evidence are much more difficult to solve provided that the methodology is driven by such factors as opportunity and cunning know-how.

Particularly in this case, this perp(s) went to a great deal of effort to get rid of the evidence, ... no fingerprints, no DNA, no eyewitnesses, nothing .... then why would he then hide Michelle's body somewhere where there's a direct connection to himself? That doesn't fit at all this perp's profile ... does it? If the perp is indeed Dale, surely he must have known that the police would check, re-check, analyze, probe, evaluate examine and so on, all that was his and connected to himself ... so why would he then knowingly leave clues around for the police to find after he so meticulously got rid of all compelling evidence? In other words, if one anticipates to be suspect #1, why get rid of the knife, the body, the fingerprints, the blood and all other DNA evidence, but then bury the body in one's own backyard or any place where there is a somewhat direct connection to oneself? And that is notwithstanding whatever psychological and logistical advantages one might gain in operating within familiar territorial confinements. as you suggested. Sure everything is possible, human psychology is generally complex, true enough, and there's always plenty of anecdotal evidence for all of it ... but surely it cannot be the default expectation, especially in this case, yes? If there's clear evidence of efforts to confuse and conceal, then the whole of the hypothesis must follow that logic save evidence to the contrary, where evidence is the operative word here and where it's kind is of the established and not of the imaginary IMO.

In sum, as it often is the case with his detractors, depending on this particular theory or that one Dale is portrayed either as this cunning perp so adept in hiding evidence or as this simpleton more apt to be pray of his emotions then to cover the tracks of his misdeeds which surely will bring the police to his arrest tomorrow, in the near future ... soon enough, and sometimes both in the very same theory, however, while almost anything is possible where theories are of concern, and understanding that almost always it's neither black nor white but any shades in between, consistency is nevertheless one of the metrics for sound reasoning IMO, because as they say, often times one can't have it both ways.

I get what you are saying...HOWEVER I think you are missing my point. I believe Dale probably hid Michelle somewhere that he was quite familiar with...a spot from his past. It is quite apparent that it was a good hiding spot as she has not been found YET. I emphasize the word yet. IMO Dale still watches these forums pretty closely which leads me to believe she can be found. If she was in a spot that was near impossible he would have moved on. My guess is that he is still very nervous about her being found... All JMO

 

[Thor]

I get what you are saying...HOWEVER I think you are missing my point. I believe Dale probably hid Michelle somewhere that he was quite familiar with...a spot from his past. It is quite apparent that it was a good hiding spot as she has not been found YET. I emphasize the word yet. IMO Dale still watches these forums pretty closely which leads me to believe she can be found. If she was in a spot that was near impossible he would have moved on. My guess is that he is still very nervous about her being found... All JMO

What point am I missing Jazz? I understand you believe that Dale is the perp, Dale is a bad dude and so on and on but I don't concern myself with beliefs, for the same reason I don't discuss religions, it's pointless, people will believe what they want and that's that. My concern here is not in passing a sentence, but rather in asking questions, to probe, to challenge, to learn what I don't know and to to teach what I know... to stir the pot so to speak. When we get to the "I believe" with that degree of intensity and conviction so common to those who know it absolutely, to me that's when the discussion ends, unless one's in the business of changing minds, which here I'm definitely not and could not if I tried.

Therefore, personal beliefs notwithstanding, my questions were: (please note all the question marks in that paragraph alone) I'll cut and paste

"Particularly in this case, this perp(s) went to a great deal of effort to get rid of the evidence, ... no fingerprints, no DNA, no eyewitnesses, nothing .... then why would he then hide Michelle's body somewhere where there's a direct connection to himself? That doesn't fit at all this perp's profile ... does it? If the perp is indeed Dale, surely he must have known that the police would check, re-check, analyze, probe, evaluate examine and so on, all that was his and connected to himself ... so why would he then knowingly leave clues around for the police to find after he so meticulously got rid of all compelling evidence? In other words, if one anticipates to be suspect #1, why get rid of the knife, the body, the fingerprints, the blood and all other DNA evidence, but then bury the body in one's own backyard or any place where there is a somewhat direct connection to oneself? And that is notwithstanding whatever psychological and logistical advantages one might gain in operating within familiar territorial confinements. as you suggested. Sure everything is possible, human psychology is generally complex, true enough, and there's always plenty of anecdotal evidence for all of it ... but surely it cannot be the default expectation, especially in this case, yes? If there's clear evidence of efforts to confuse and conceal, then the whole of the hypothesis must follow that logic save evidence to the contrary, where evidence is the operative word here and where it's kind is of the established and not of the imaginary IMO" -Thor

from there one might ask questions such as:

Where do you disagree with the above and why?

What makes you think that Dale hid the body in a place that has a direct connection to himself?

If Dale hid the body in a place that is familiar to him, why hasn't the body been found after all this time?

and so on ... you get the point.

Now if answers go in the direction of something like "I think Dale did this and that because I believe so" that's all good and well but it would tell me nothing of consequence because I'm interested in the logic and the facts behind the idea, not the idea itself or even much less, people personal beliefs and guesses.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Therefore, personal beliefs notwithstanding, my questions were: (please note all the question marks in that paragraph alone) I'll cut and paste

"Particularly in this case, this perp(s) went to a great deal of effort to get rid of the evidence, ... no fingerprints, no DNA, no eyewitnesses, nothing .... then why would he then hide Michelle's body somewhere where there's a direct connection to himself? That doesn't fit at all this perp's profile ... does it? If the perp is indeed Dale, surely he must have known that the police would check, re-check, analyze, probe, evaluate examine and so on, all that was his and connected to himself ... so why would he then knowingly leave clues around for the police to find after he so meticulously got rid of all compelling evidence? In other words, if one anticipates to be suspect #1, why get rid of the knife, the body, the fingerprints, the blood and all other DNA evidence, but then bury the body in one's own backyard or any place where there is a somewhat direct connection to oneself? And that is notwithstanding whatever psychological and logistical advantages one might gain in operating within familiar territorial confinements. as you suggested. Sure everything is possible, human psychology is generally complex, true enough, and there's always plenty of anecdotal evidence for all of it ... but surely it cannot be the default expectation, especially in this case, yes? If there's clear evidence of efforts to confuse and conceal, then the whole of the hypothesis must follow that logic save evidence to the contrary, where evidence is the operative word here and where it's kind is of the established and not of the imaginary IMO" -Thor

from there one might ask questions such as:

Where do you disagree with the above and why?

What makes you think that Dale hid the body in a place that has a direct connection to himself?

If Dale hid the body in a place that is familiar to him, why hasn't the body been found after all this time?

and so on ... you get the point.

Now if answers go in the direction of something like "I think Dale did this and that because I believe so" that's all good and well but it would tell me nothing of consequence because I'm interested in the logic and the facts behind the idea, not the idea itself or even much less, people personal beliefs and guesses.

Well to answer your questions would involve me knowing how Dale pulled this off and WHERE he hid the body. To many...including LE...it is pretty clear WHO did it and WHY as all trails lead back to Dale...the disgraced and dishonorably discharged ex-marine who as a history of threatening and beating women, drugs, violence, and killing people. IMO this was planned and Dale knew of a place from his past where he could conceal Michelle's body without being caught. He has a friend named "Chris" that did a similar thing in the past and has gotten away with it too. JMO. Maybe Dale took a page from that playbook?

If you follow the trail Dales CONDO, where Michelle's PHONE was found, Dale's parents HOUSE, and where Michelle's VEHICLE was found, it is a direct line showing how Dale and or his accomplice(s) traveled that day... It was not a random scatter.

Now the most important evidence to hide is obviously the body. Just because it is a place familiar to Dale doesn't mean it is easy to locate as we do not have the benefit of knowing every hiding spot Dale knows. If he thought long and hard about spots he knew about that could conceal a body like his friend did then it would most likely would have been a spot he considered. JMO

To chose a random , unknown location not connected to his past makes less sense as he would have no control or comfort knowing if she could or would be found... There was prob evidence left on the body that would tie him to her murder so hiding Michelle was the most important task Dale had that day and where he took the most care. In due time his house of cards will most likely come crashing down...where today there is no DIRECT proof he did this at some point the truth will come out, justice will be served, and Dale will pay for his crimes. I still have faith and will NGU until Michelle has been found and Dale is prosecuted. all JMO.

 

[Thor]

Well to answer your questions would involve me knowing how Dale pulled this off and WHERE he hid the body. To many...including LE...it is pretty clear WHO did it and WHY as all trails lead back to Dale...the disgraced and dishonorably discharged ex-marine who as a history of threatening and beating women, drugs, violence, and killing people. IMO this was planned and Dale knew of a place from his past where he could conceal Michelle's body without being caught. He has a friend named "Chris" that did a similar thing in the past and has gotten away with it too. JMO. Maybe Dale took a page from that playbook?

If you follow the trail Dales CONDO, where Michelle's PHONE was found, Dale's parents HOUSE, and where Michelle's VEHICLE was found, it is a direct line showing how Dale and or his accomplice(s) traveled that day... It was not a random scatter.

Now the most important evidence to hide is obviously the body. Just because it is a place familiar to Dale doesn't mean it is easy to locate as we do not have the benefit of knowing every hiding spot Dale knows. If he thought long and hard about spots he knew about that could conceal a body like his friend did then it would most likely would have been a spot he considered. JMO

To chose a random , unknown location not connected to his past makes less sense as he would have no control or comfort knowing if she could or would be found... There was prob evidence left on the body that would tie him to her murder so hiding Michelle was the most important task Dale had that day and where he took the most care. In due time his house of cards will most likely come crashing down...where today there is no DIRECT proof he did this at some point the truth will come out, justice will be served, and Dale will pay for his crimes. I still have faith and will NGU until Michelle has been found and Dale is prosecuted. all JMO.

Jazz, I like you, I have no issue whatsoever with your opinions, beliefs and convictions and I do respect them, but clearly here we're talking two different languages, and that's neither good nor bad, not my fault or yours, but rather what it is and that's that, not to mention we're been at it for more then one year, while just about everybody else has long gone and don't even bother to post anymore.

It is basically impossible for me to have a meaningful exchange of opinions with you, or anyone else for that matter, when we don't even agree on the facts.

Now the facts are as follows, and they're not my opinions, there are no IMOs, doubts or anything of the sort.

1. There's nobody in this thread that "knows" that Dale is responsible for Michelle's disappearance. To know something is to prove it, and there is no amount of personal conviction and desire to be so that can change that simple fact and that's independent on whether what one thinks happens to be true or not, and that is the reason why Dale is free today and not in prison.

2. There is no direct evidence on the public record that Dale is involved in Michelle's disappearance. No ifs, no ends and no buts. The police have never presented any evidence to the effect. It's arguable whether they do or they don't have any evidence and if so how much and of what nature.

3. What we know is that Michelle arrived at Dale's condo and subsequently seemingly vanished from the face of this earth plus quite a bit of details about what transpired on that godforsaken day.

Now, if there's disagreements on the facts above, it's truly impossible IMO to have anything above making speeches about Dale's innocence or guilt and people get tired of communicating person beliefs and they simply loose interest in participating.

Besides, IMO, it was never an issue of whether Dale is guilty or innocent, but rather where's is Michelle and who's responsible for her disappearance. True that the frustration here is that we know so little, true that we're aware only of Dale as a possible perpetrator, true that it's fair to speculate and theorizing about Dale, however, there's a line where the issue becomes only about Dale and Michelle becomes a means to an end, which is demonstrably pointless IMO since none of us in this thread and in the public at large have any power to actuality either absolve or convict Dale of anything.

Therefore let me ask yet again two of the numerous questions that I've posed lately:

What makes you think that Dale hid the body in a place that has a direct connection to himself after having been so meticulously effective in deflecting any connections of himself to the crime scene?

In your opinion, If Dale hid the body in a place that is familiar to him, why hasn't the body been found after all this time?

And yet again let me say that I'm interested in the logic and anything that would support it. And that might be a good place to start a meaningful discussion IMO.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Jazz, I like you, I have no issue whatsoever with your opinions, beliefs and convictions and I do respect them, but clearly here we're talking two different languages, and that's neither good nor bad, not my fault or yours, but rather what it is and that's that, not to mention we're been at it for more then one year, while just about everybody else has long gone and don't even bother to post anymore.

It is basically impossible for me to have a meaningful exchange of opinions with you, or anyone else for that matter, when we don't even agree on the facts.

Now the facts are as follows, and they're not my opinions, there are no IMOs, doubts or anything of the sort.

1. There's nobody in this thread that "knows" that Dale is responsible for Michelle's disappearance. To know something is to prove it, and there is no amount of personal conviction and desire to be so that can change that simple fact and that's independent on whether what one thinks happens to be true or not, and that is the reason why Dale is free today and not in prison.

2. There is no direct evidence on the public record that Dale is involved in Michelle's disappearance. No ifs, no ends and no buts. The police have never presented any evidence to the effect. It's arguable whether they do or they don't have any evidence and if so how much and of what nature.

3. What we know is that Michelle arrived at Dale's condo and subsequently seemingly vanished from the face of this earth plus quite a bit of details about what transpired on that godforsaken day.

Now, if there's disagreements on the facts above, it's truly impossible IMO to have anything above making speeches about Dale's innocence or guilt and people get tired of communicating person beliefs and they simply loose interest in participating.

Besides, IMO, it was never an issue of whether Dale is guilty or innocent, but rather where's is Michelle and who's responsible for her disappearance. True that the frustration here is that we know so little, true that we're aware only of Dale as a possible perpetrator, true that it's fair to speculate and theorizing about Dale, however, there's a line where the issue becomes only about Dale and Michelle becomes a means to an end, which is demonstrably pointless IMO since none of us in this thread and in the public at large have any power to actuality either absolve or convict Dale of anything.

Therefore let me ask yet again two of the numerous questions that I've posed lately:

What makes you think that Dale hid the body in a place that has a direct connection to himself after having been so meticulously effective in deflecting any connections of himself to the crime scene?

In your opinion, If Dale hid the body in a place that is familiar to him, why hasn't the body been found after all this time?

And yet again let me say that I'm interested in the logic and anything that would support it. And that might be a good place to start a meaningful discussion IMO.

Ok think about this...you want to get rid of a problem person in your life. She has made your life difficult, you have to pay child support, your jealous of her new boy friend, she embarrassed you on national TV and knows all your dirty little secrets and has threatened to tell others. You don't value life and are not only willing to kill her but you plan to do this on a day that could create confusion...the day your show airs on TV.

The questions will be endless. Did she run away because she was embarrassed? Did she kill herself? Was she abducted by a random stranger? You know LE will ultimately come back to you but without a body you are just a suspect. You need the crime to take place in a place that you can control the elements and avoid witnesses. With proper planning you can take her alive and kill her elsewhere. You decide to take matters into your own hands when she visits your condo.

Now hiding the body is the most important element. You think long and hard about the right place...

Now Thor this is why I think logically it comes back to a place Dale knows well. He doesn't have a lot of time. Whether it was planned like I envisioned or a moment of anger that went to far, he knows he has a limited amount of time to hide evidence and get rid of Michelle. I believe she is within 5 miles of his condo in a place he knew real well and doesn't have a lot of activity. He could easily did a hole and bury her. If he used a container of some sort she could go years or longer without being discovered.

We know Dale sr followed the Josh Powell case very closely before Michelle went missing as evidenced by his deleted FB acct. Susan Powell still hasn't been found. Do you think Josh picked a random place or a place he somehow knew no one would find her? The Smiths (Jr and Sr) had some sort of plan IMO ahead of time and carried it out in a way that eiriely mirrors the Powell case. Let's just pray we don't have the same conclusive tragic ending

All jmo

 

[Thor]

Ok think about this...you want to get rid of a problem person in your life. She has made your life difficult, you have to pay child support, your jealous of her new boy friend, she embarrassed you on national TV and knows all your dirty little secrets and has threatened to tell others. You don't value life and are not only willing to kill her but you plan to do this on a day that could create confusion...the day your show airs on TV.

The questions will be endless. Did she run away because she was embarrassed? Did she kill herself? Was she abducted by a random stranger? You know LE will ultimately come back to you but without a body you are just a suspect. You need the crime to take place in a place that you can control the elements and avoid witnesses. With proper planning you can take her alive and kill her elsewhere. You decide to take matters into your own hands when she visits your condo.

Now hiding the body is the most important element. You think long and hard about the right place...

Now Thor this is why I think logically it comes back to a place Dale knows well. He doesn't have a lot of time. Whether it was planned like I envisioned or a moment of anger that went to far, he knows he has a limited amount of time to hide evidence and get rid of Michelle. I believe she is within 5 miles of his condo in a place he knew real well and doesn't have a lot of activity. He could easily did a hole and bury her. If he used a container of some sort she could go years or longer without being discovered.

We know Dale sr followed the Josh Powell case very closely before Michelle went missing as evidenced by his deleted FB acct. Susan Powell still hasn't been found. Do you think Josh picked a random place or a place he somehow knew no one would find her? The Smiths (Jr and Sr) had some sort of plan IMO ahead of time and carried it out in a way that eiriely mirrors the Powell case. Let's just pray we don't have the same conclusive tragic ending

All jmo

Killing a person because one doesn't want to pay child support is a bit tight around the edges so to speak ... how much was Dale paying for child support that would justify killing as a motive? Besides does it really matter? The issue is not could Dale have done it but assuming that he did it how did he go about it ... right?

What place do you think the crime took place? Dale's condo? Did Dale need to have control as you suggested? Possibly, murders are often about control and power over another individual, true enough. But still, IMO there is next to no chance that Dale would have planned this at his condo, at that time of day, while the kids were present at the scene, and positioning himself as the #1 suspect being the last known person to have seen Michelle before she disappeared. No, there must have been plenty of better opportunities for Dale to kill Michelle then this one, unless corroborated in terms of physical evidence a jury would never buy it. IMO

If instead this was an unplanned murder, still at the condo ... then here there are a few things to consider ... what happened to the evidence at the condo? Under those circumstances present at the time, how did he get rid of the body and yet manged to leave no evidence behind ... no eyewitnesses ... nothing ... people in a hurry are tenfold likely to make mistakes and evidence it's not that easy to conceal.

It all comes down to evidence. No evidence = no culpability = no prosecution.

So where is Michelle? 5 miles around the condo area? I think you're right about that, but where? I don't think at all that if he was Dale, he hid Michelle anywhere where there is a direct connection to himself, although that is not to say not in a place he was familiar with. So where????? Where is a place that is within a 5 Miles radius of the condo, that has no direct connection to Dale but that he was familiar with?

 

[Jazzmaster]

Killing a person because one doesn't want to pay child support is a bit tight around the edges so to speak ... how much was Dale paying for child support that would justify killing as a motive? Besides does it really matter? The issue is not could Dale have done it but assuming that he did it how did he go about it ... right?

What place do you think the crime took place? Dale's condo? Did Dale need to have control as you suggested? Possibly, murders are often about control and power over another individual, true enough. But still, IMO there is next to no chance that Dale would have planned this at his condo, at that time of day, while the kids were present at the scene, and positioning himself as the #1 suspect being the last known person to have seen Michelle before she disappeared. No, there must have been plenty of better opportunities for Dale to kill Michelle then this one, unless corroborated in terms of physical evidence a jury would never buy it. IMO

If instead this was an unplanned murder, still at the condo ... then here there are a few things to consider ... what happened to the evidence at the condo? Under those circumstances present at the time, how did he get rid of the body and yet manged to leave no evidence behind ... no eyewitnesses ... nothing ... people in a hurry are tenfold likely to make mistakes and evidence it's not that easy to conceal.

It all comes down to evidence. No evidence = no culpability = no prosecution.

So where is Michelle? 5 miles around the condo area? I think you're right about that, but where? I don't think at all that if he was Dale, he hid Michelle anywhere where there is a direct connection to himself, although that is not to say not in a place he was familiar with. So where????? Where is a place that is within a 5 Miles radius of the condo, that has no direct connection to Dale but that he was familiar with?

Well I really see three possibilities:
A) Dale planned this in advance and simply abducted her while at his condo using a method to incompacitate her and he took her somewhere else to kill her. I think it was at the condo because any other place would provide an opportunity for witnesses. In the privacy of his condo he had the means and opportunity. She was seen going into the condo and never seen alive again.
B) Dale attacked her after a fight at the condo and went too far. She was wounded but not dead. She threatened to go to LE or he knew she was going to go to LE so he took her somewhere to kill her.
C) in a moment of rage he killed her at the condo and went into self preservation mode to hide evidence.

IIRC LE never did any forensic testing or ever sent dogs into Dale's condo. So all he needed to do was clean up any mess. Considering he has a brother in law in the crime scene cleaning business. It is not a stretch that he could have quickly cleaned up a mess. Dale was also trained in the marines and bragged on FB that he could kill someone by snapping their neck.

Now in all three of the above scenarios Dale could very easily have killed Michelle leaving no evidence behind. As to where he hid her. This is the million dollar question. I believe if we solve this it all goes down for Dale. IMO he knows she will eventually be found so where is she?

 

[Thor]

Well I really see three possibilities:
A) Dale planned this in advance and simply abducted her while at his condo using a method to incompacitate her and he took her somewhere else to kill her. I think it was at the condo because any other place would provide an opportunity for witnesses. In the privacy of his condo he had the means and opportunity. She was seen going into the condo and never seen alive again.
B) Dale attacked her after a fight at the condo and went too far. She was wounded but not dead. She threatened to go to LE or he knew she was going to go to LE so he took her somewhere to kill her.
C) in a moment of rage he killed her at the condo and went into self preservation mode to hide evidence.

IIRC LE never did any forensic testing or ever sent dogs into Dale's condo. So all he needed to do was clean up any mess. Considering he has a brother in law in the crime scene cleaning business. It is not a stretch that he could have quickly cleaned up a mess. Dale was also trained in the marines and bragged on FB that he could kill someone by snapping their neck.

Now in all three of the above scenarios Dale could very easily have killed Michelle leaving no evidence behind. As to where he hid her. This is the million dollar question. I believe if we solve this it all goes down for Dale. IMO he knows she will eventually be found so where is she?

There's is also D) Dale has nothing to do with Michelle disappearance ... and quite possibly other letters as well, (E F G ...) that we might not be aware of as of today but doesn't mean they don't exist.

I also agree with you that after a year and half of all kinds of theories, unless Michelle is found this case is extremely unlikely to get solved and the perp apprehended. So it's disquieting that both of our last posts have ended with "where's is Michelle?". I'm not in Florida to conduct searches, one needs locals willing to donate their time and efforts ... one needs locals that are familiar with the areas to come up with places to search and to coordinate the efforts. I have no experience whatsoever in this kind of situations ... I fear the worst still ... when the worst has probably already happened. There is a certain insult to all of humanity when people can be so readily eliminated, disposed of, erased. I can understand it, rationalize it, even accept it, but I can never forgive those animals that actually perpetrate it.

 

[Jazzmaster]

There's is also D) Dale has nothing to do with Michelle disappearance ... and quite possibly other letters as well, (E F G ...) that we might not be aware of as of today but doesn't mean they don't exist.

I also agree with you that after a year and half of all kinds of theories, unless Michelle is found this case is extremely unlikely to get solved and the perp apprehended. So it's disquieting that both of our last posts have ended with "where's is Michelle?". I'm not in Florida to conduct searches, one needs locals willing to donate their time and efforts ... one needs locals that are familiar with the areas to come up with places to search and to coordinate the efforts. I have no experience whatsoever in this kind of situations ... I fear the worst still ... when the worst has probably already happened. There is a certain insult to all of humanity when people can be so readily eliminated, disposed of, erased. I can understand it, rationalize it, even accept it, but I can never forgive those animals that actually perpetrate it.

Well for many, many months I have wrestled with possibilities D and beyond but they do not have any logic or foundation IMO. Could they be the real answer and Dale innocent? I would say the possibility would be like one in a million. As Jim Carey said in Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance!" Yes but not a real one if you ask me...

We could look at someone other than Dale but like Kimberly Wilkins said, "Ain't nobody got time for that!" It is fruitless with any and all trails pointing right back to Mr. Dale Smith. We got ourselves the killer now we need the body. JMO

Now the trouble with searches around Dale's condo and the general area is the range of possibilities. My knitting group has done quite a few independent searches looking around areas of high interest but none of us ladies have any high tech equipment. I mean many of us don't even have them smart phones let alone equipment to locate a body.

The best way to get the answer IMO would be to waterboard Dale but that ain't gonna happen so we just got to press on to find some answers...

 

[Thor]

Well for many, many months I have wrestled with possibilities D and beyond but they do not have any logic or foundation IMO. Could they be the real answer and Dale innocent? I would say the possibility would be like one in a million. As Jim Carey said in Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance!" Yes but not a real one if you ask me...

We could look at someone other than Dale but like Kimberly Wilkins said, "Ain't nobody got time for that!" It is fruitless with any and all trails pointing right back to Mr. Dale Smith. We got ourselves the killer now we need the body. JMO

Now the trouble with searches around Dale's condo and the general area is the range of possibilities. My knitting group has done quite a few independent searches looking around areas of high interest but none of us ladies have any high tech equipment. I mean many of us don't even have them smart phones let alone equipment to locate a body.

The best way to get the answer IMO would be to waterboard Dale but that ain't gonna happen so we just got to press on to find some answers...

Here we are yet again talking about guilt or innocence ,

No, I'm saying that (theorizing aside) nobody knows who's responsible for Michelle's disappearance as of today. Dale is not guilty unless proven innocent, Dale is not guilty unless someone else is accused and/or convicted of this crime. people are not guilty of something solely because they might have done it, There's is a huge difference to me between theorizing about Dale doing this or that for the purpose of finding clues and exchanging ideas, and designating him as the murderer by default notwithstanding no proof at all of guilt and notwithstanding that he's not been charged with any crimes even after 1 1/2 years of investigations, and that is and always has been my unequivocal position on this matter.

In any case, I keep on getting caught in this Dale guilty-innocent argument when I know it's going nowhere even remotely rational, even after I promised time and time again not to do it, it's so entirely my fault and no one else's, therefore I'm gonna sign off this topic ... really and pick it up hopefully when there is actually some real tangible evidence. My heart goes out to Michelle and her family, I hope they find the strength to keep going in the face of such extraordinary adversities.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Well after independently going over at least 100 scenarios and keeping an open mind while considering all the facts, released evidence, and statements from key players and LE I have been convinced beyond a reasonable doubt who is responsible for Michelle's demise.

I have poured 100s of hours of investigation, poured through Dale's and his friends social media accounts, and been privy to some things I cannot discuss here all leading me to one and only one conclusion. Though I never met Michelle or any of her family, I have always been willing to consider other possibilities. Yet after a year and a half I am no less certain today then a when this all began. All jmo

 

[captdj]

Just checking in

I wonder how many times..... have just random people come across bodies...in lieu of those searching or by LE searches? It seems like a person can just dump a body and it may take years before someone comes across it.

I would think its hard to dig a grave and its time consuming...I tried to dig up a plant that had roots and geez it was hard... and in woods with snakes etc. dark at night???
How far can you carry the weight of someone if walking in the woods without fallling and get cut up by trees and branches.

But maybe local dumping grounds in a container in a ravine etc ... or off a bridge where the area under the bridge is not accessible by walking and hard to get to by boats?
Deserted dirt trials? Heck maybe a dumpster in another town?
Or a freezer at grannys?

There has to be some good places since 4 out of 10 goes unsolved.

I would think a murderer would want to just dump the body and get clear of the area asap......

I 'm just waiting till someone happens across and discovers Michelle and her family can have some closure. If there is such a thing....

I hope Michelle doesn't become one of the 4 of 10 not solved.

 

[Skully]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ter-wendys-dead-body-20130422,0,1808643.story
do not know if I should post this here, but could it unfortunately be Michelle

I thought of Sandra Lemire. She went missing after a speed date at a fast food place and has never been heard of again.