FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[Thor]

Well to find Michelle you need to examine who had the means and motive. In this case, we fortunately have a suspect so we can now examine possible locations where he hid Michelle. You have to admit even if you don't know IF Dale is GUILTY or not...it is quite odd that all of her normal activity ceases once she arrives at Dale's condo. So what plausible scenarios do you have? If not Dale then who, when, where, and how? Why wouldn't she text her bf once she got back to her vehicle if she left Dale's condo alive or under her own free will?

I agree that Dale might be responsible for this crime of course, I don't think Dale had much of a motive and it's more likely that if he killed her it was in a moment of rage or something like that and I don't really think he had the opportunity either giving the circumstances present at the time, I may be wrong though and he might be guilty after all and I wouldn't be shocked if that turns out to be the case.

"it is quite odd that all of her normal activity ceases once she arrives at Dale's condo"

I wouldn't call it odd but certainly a bit too coincidental for me too since I see where you come from in this.

"If not Dale then who, when, where, and how? Why wouldn't she text her bf once she got back to her vehicle if she left Dale's condo alive or under her own free will?"

The possibilities there are numerous, somebody that knew her? A random abduction as there are hundred if not thousands each year? I don't know Dale I can construct you several scenarios but I think the rules here are somewhat complicated when not involving either a named suspect or an anonymous one. So again, I don't know pretty much sums it up.

 

[Thor]

So the short version is that you have no idea if the grandparents could have appealed the custody decision and what you are stating is your opinion?

For the record it was DCF who obtained the "take into custody" order on the twins and it was them who were trying to remove the twins from DSJr and put them into temporary protective custody. And it was a representative from the DCF who testified at the trial, along with Michelle's oldest son. I suppose it was assumed that DCF would allow YS's home to be the placement for the children.

So I cannot see how the grandparent(s) were able to appeal the decision. They do not have custodial rights, which is why YS is trying to have a law enacted to change that in situations such as this. The DCF recommended that the children be removed from the custody of their father and applied for the order based on their investigation and interview with the children. The judge disregarded the testimony of the DCF, Michelle's oldest son, his multiple court records of violence as well as domestic issues with Michelle and the fact that LE had named him the prime suspect in Michelle's disappearance. Unbelievable, and a decision that shocked the majority of the people following the case as well as Michelle's family and friends.

Therefore we shouldn't be making blanket statements that because they didn't appeal the decision that they had no grounds to when it appears rather that they had no rights to or you can bet they would have. I'm sure they are doing everything possible via their lawyers to try to correct that wrong. The civil suit is just another example of that IMO.

MOO

"... So the short version is that you have no idea if the grandparents could have appealed the custody decision and what you are stating is your opinion?"

No, to the contrary having being denied custody there might be grounds for appeal , yes, I would go back and read my opinion (for what is worth) on this issue.


" ... So I cannot see how the grandparent(s) were able to appeal the decision. They do not have custodial rights"

Again I talked at length about that very issue, perhaps you should reed my opinion again.


"... The DCF recommended that the children be removed from the custody of their father and applied for the order based on their investigation and interview with the children. The judge disregarded the testimony of the DCF..."


I don't know what the Judge disregarded if anything I have no insight into his reasoning although reading the order/opinion ought to answer that very question, and I've not read it, the way it works usually in this matters is that the Judge will consider all testimonies and recommendations and then issues a ruling, not different from a jury rendering a verdict.


"the judge disregarded the testimony of the DCF, Michelle's oldest son, his multiple court records of violence as well as domestic issues with Michelle and the fact that LE had named him the prime suspect in Michelle's disappearance."

Again not having read neither the judge opinion nor the transcript of the proceedings I can't say anything of real value about what transpired in the courtroom other then to say that being named a suspect in a crime that has not even being prosecuted is not a disqualifying factor for child custody purposes, and again I have no opinion about evidence I haven't seen, testimony I haven't heard, and rulings I haven't read.


"Unbelievable, and a decision that shocked the majority of the people following the case as well as Michelle's family and friends."

I'm sorry to hear that and I can sympathize with everyone directly involved here, child custody cases are very hard and emotionally draining, and believe me I know it from personal first hand experience. However parental rights are very strong, as they should be, and it's very difficult to deny a parent custody of his children unless there's a demonstrable danger to the child something that clearly was not evident in the opinion of this Judge.

IMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

I agree that Dale might be responsible for this crime of course, I don't think Dale had much of a motive and it's more likely that if he killed her it was in a moment of rage or something like that and I don't really think he had the opportunity either giving the circumstances present at the time, I may be wrong though and he might be guilty after all and I wouldn't be shocked if that turns out to be the case.

"it is quite odd that all of her normal activity ceases once she arrives at Dale's condo"

I wouldn't call it odd but certainly a bit too coincidental for me too since I see where you come from in this.

"If not Dale then who, when, where, and how? Why wouldn't she text her bf once she got back to her vehicle if she left Dale's condo alive or under her own free will?"

The possibilities there are numerous, somebody that knew her? A random abduction as there are hundred if not thousands each year? I don't know Dale I can construct you several scenarios but I think the rules here are somewhat complicated when not involving either a named suspect or an anonymous one. So again, I don't know pretty much sums it up.

Well let's think this through....Michelle was texting her bf, NM throughout the day all the way until reportedly dropping the twinners off with Dale then NOTHING back to him after 3:18pm the moment her vehicle is picked up on a SV. Now common logic and pattern should dictate the reasonable possibilities going forward. She either makes it back to her vehicle alive or not. Under her free will or not.

Now if she gets back to her vehicle alive and under her own free will immediately after dropping off the twinners. Why would she not return a text? Young love....I am sure you have been there before Thor...you big hunk of manliness you have those butterflies and spend way more time than you probably should with that special person...BUT the love bug has bitten. Now why on G-D's earth did Michelle not return a single text from NM after 3:18?

 

[Jazzmaster]

"
Also I know that Smith Sr. is theorized as an accomplice in Michelle's case, but why do you think it is that, unlike Dale, he's not been named a suspect?

IMO Sr is the most LIKELY candidate to help. He may be an accomplice AFTER the fact or may have helped with planning. I am still on the fence but I STRONGLY believe he had some part in the disappearance. LE rarely if ever identify accomplices so it is not odd Sr has not been publicly identified. However I am sure MM and other detectives have their suspicions....maybe even evidence.

Let's assume that Dale is responsible. You know where I stand on his guilt or innocence BUT you remain on the fence...but for a second here let's just conclude Dale is GUILTY. Who do you think helped? One of his Jedi "warriors" or Dad? Maybe the one armed bandit? JK but who???

All JMO

 

[Kamille]

Now, it's important to me that having an honest discussion about this or others matters, here or somewhere else, that I get the whole picture about an issue, I too have some experience in oratory strategy, and I understand how often people concentrate on what supports their own particular narrative and conveniently leave out what does not, therefore as far as I'm concerned, every time I hear something my question always is: "what's the rest of the story?", because you see, IMO there's always "the rest of the story" and it's productive to me to get to the truth or at least as much of the truth that one can possibly uncover regardless of personal believes, most notably my very own.

For example, if the issue is Dale's criminal record as you have correctly included in your post, I think I can sympathize with your point there, however it's also true that by that same record, the last recorded criminal complaint is dated as of the year 1996, and that is as per an allegation that was found not to be proven (correct me if I'm wrong), and where the last otherwise proven allegation probably dates back some 20 to 25 years earlier when Dale was a very young man, and in any case nothing to the scope and magnitude of the gravity of a charge of murder surely.

Respectfully snipped...

Just to clear up some misconceptions posted about minimizing DSJr's criminal and court records.

In regards to his criminal record, disregarding the charges he started building up in 1990 at the tender age of 19 (we have no idea if there are any charges that he had as a young offender), including felony burglary, trespass refuse to leave, and a controlled substance charge, he really started to ramp things up in 1992 when he was convicted of felony aggravated battery during an incident in which a young man was murdered. While he did not actually stab the young man, he was not only involved in the altercation by kicking a man in the head, it was indicated by the other young men at the scene that he instigated it. It appears he was sentenced to 6 months max and 2 years probation on that one. It also appears he attempted to appeal that charge unsuccessfully.

The 1996 Battery incident was in regards to hitting a man over the head with a chair during a party in which he and other friends crashed and were asked to leave. This was in Sept of 1996. It appears he got off easy on that one with his 10 days jail already served and was fined $3000 after pleading guilty to lesser charges of battery instead of the aggravated battery with a deadly weapon that he was charged with. That was resolved in 1997 and he was already enlisted in the marines at the time of the incident. So that criminal charge is proven.

The records from the USMC are not on file but media has reported that he was court martialed in 2001 and dishonourably discharged in 2003. Shannon was assaulted in Sept 2000. So it appears he did some time in military prison for the drug and domestic violence charges during his stay in the USMC. It also appears from traffic violation records that he was back in Florida by at least May 2002.

After that, his court records, while not criminal in nature, indicate a pattern of domestic incidences, first with another woman in 2003/2005 in which he initiated the court proceedings and then with Michelle in 2009 in which he initiated two proceeding and she initiated another.

So his "history" with incidents within the court system spans pretty much the entire time from when he turned 19 until Michelle disappeared. And those are only incidents for which he was charged or charged someone else. There is another incident from his early years in which he was accused of sexual battery but charges were never filed. Actual court records and history are probably only a fraction of what someone is actually involved in IMO.


MOO

 

[Thor]

Well let's think this through....Michelle was texting her bf, NM throughout the day all the way until reportedly dropping the twinners off with Dale then NOTHING back to him after 3:18pm the moment her vehicle is picked up on a SV. Now common logic and pattern should dictate the reasonable possibilities going forward. She either makes it back to her vehicle alive or not. Under her free will or not.

Now if she gets back to her vehicle alive and under her own free will immediately after dropping off the twinners. Why would she not return a text? Young love....I am sure you have been there before Thor...you big hunk of manliness stuff you have those butterflies and spend way more time than you probably should with that special person...BUT the love bug has bitten. Now why on G-D's earth did Michelle not return a single text from NM after 3:18?

"... She either makes it back to her vehicle alive or not. Under her free will or not."

Obviously.

" ... Why would she not return a text? Young love....I am sure you have been there before Thor...you big hunk of manliness "

I can't disagree with you there since it's self evident ... I mean the big hunk of manliness As for the rest I don't know, either she never made it back to the Hummer or was preoccupied with other stuff, say like driving because she needed to be somewhere, or she simply did not happen to text him back right away notwithstanding the butterflies that might or might not have been flying around at that exact time since it's unlikely, young love aside, that they were in a perpetual texting mode.

"... Now why on G-D's earth did Michelle not return a single text from NM after 3:18?"

Because she was not in control of her life anytime from when she got to the condo or anytime after she left the condo but not before she was to take the time to text her boyfriend back? I mean I think we know that what happened to her must have happened at the condo or possibly anywhere soon after, precisely because she was not actively communicating anything through her phone, so perhaps not texting the boyfriend serves has a way to narrow the time window of her abduction but not to convict Dale, not yet.

IMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

Respectfully snipped...

Just to clear up some misconceptions posted about minimizing DSJr's criminal and court records.

In regards to his criminal record, disregarding the charges he started building up in 1990 at the tender age of 19 (we have no idea if there are any charges that he had as a young offender), including felony burglary, trespass refuse to leave, and a controlled substance charge, he really started to ramp things up in 1992 when he was convicted of felony aggravated battery during an incident in which a young man was murdered. While he did not actually stab the young man, he was not only involved in the altercation by kicking a man in the head, it was indicated by the other young men at the scene that he instigated it. It appears he was sentenced to 6 months max and 2 years probation on that one. It also appears he attempted to appeal that charge unsuccessfully.

The 1996 Battery incident was in regards to hitting a man over the head with a chair during a party in which he and other friends crashed and were asked to leave. This was in Sept of 1996. It appears he got off easy on that one with his 10 days jail already served and was fined $3000 after pleading guilty to lesser charges of battery instead of the aggravated battery with a deadly weapon that he was charged with. That was resolved in 1997 and he was already enlisted in the marines at the time of the incident. So that criminal charge is proven.

The records from the USMC are not on file but media has reported that he was court martialed in 2001 and dishonourably discharged in 2003. Shannon was assaulted in Sept 2000. So it appears he did some time in military prison for the drug and domestic violence charges during his stay in the USMC. It also appears from traffic violation records that he was back in Florida by at least May 2002.

After that, his court records, while not criminal in nature, indicate a pattern of domestic incidences, first with another woman in 2003/2005 in which he initiated the court proceedings and then with Michelle in 2009 in which he initiated two proceeding and she initiated another.

So his "history" with incidents within the court system spans pretty much the entire time from when he turned 19 until Michelle disappeared. And those are only incidents for which he was charged or charged someone else. There is another incident from his early years in which he was accused of sexual battery but charges were never filed. Actual court records and history are probably only a fraction of what someone is actually involved in IMO.


MOO

Thank you for saying what I was thinking...BUT much more eloquent. Thanks for putting all that time into the research...I know many want to ignore Dale's past but the patterns he has weaved are pretty telling!!! Like when I knit....I follow the pattern and it takes me home! Thanks Kamille

 

[Thor]

Respectfully snipped...

Just to clear up some misconceptions posted about minimizing DSJr's criminal and court records.

In regards to his criminal record, disregarding the charges he started building up in 1990 at the tender age of 19 (we have no idea if there are any charges that he had as a young offender), including felony burglary, trespass refuse to leave, and a controlled substance charge, he really started to ramp things up in 1992 when he was convicted of felony aggravated battery during an incident in which a young man was murdered. While he did not actually stab the young man, he was not only involved in the altercation by kicking a man in the head, it was indicated by the other young men at the scene that he instigated it. It appears he was sentenced to 6 months max and 2 years probation on that one. It also appears he attempted to appeal that charge unsuccessfully.

The 1996 Battery incident was in regards to hitting a man over the head with a chair during a party in which he and other friends crashed and were asked to leave. This was in Sept of 1996. It appears he got off easy on that one with his 10 days jail already served and was fined $3000 after pleading guilty to lesser charges of battery instead of the aggravated battery with a deadly weapon that he was charged with. That was resolved in 1997 and he was already enlisted in the marines at the time of the incident. So that criminal charge is proven.

The records from the USMC are not on file but media has reported that he was court martialed in 2001 and dishonourably discharged in 2003. Shannon was assaulted in Sept 2000. So it appears he did some time in military prison for the drug and domestic violence charges during his stay in the USMC. It also appears from traffic violation records that he was back in Florida by at least May 2002.

After that, his court records, while not criminal in nature, indicate a pattern of domestic incidences, first with another woman in 2003/2005 in which he initiated the court proceedings and then with Michelle in 2009 in which he initiated two proceeding and she initiated another.

So his "history" with incidents within the court system spans pretty much the entire time from when he turned 19 until Michelle disappeared. And those are only incidents for which he was charged or charged someone else. There is another incident from his early years in which he was accused of sexual battery but charges were never filed. Actual court records and history are probably only a fraction of what someone is actually involved in IMO.


MOO

I was referring to criminal cases especially that or those resulting in criminal conviction(s), not the constant bickering and the tit-for-tat they clearly couldn't help but engaging in as in the PC episode. The clearly had a very dysfunctional and highly immature relationship with all the usual consequence of it, the shouting, the threats, the pushing around, the police involvements, the accusations, the recriminations, in other words, the whole package.

 

[Kamille]

"... So the short version is that you have no idea if the grandparents could have appealed the custody decision and what you are stating is your opinion?"

No, to the contrary having being denied custody there might be grounds for appeal , yes, I would go back and read my opinion (for what is worth) on this issue.


" ... So I cannot see how the grandparent(s) were able to appeal the decision. They do not have custodial rights"

Again I talked at length about that very issue, perhaps you should reed my opinion again.


"... The DCF recommended that the children be removed from the custody of their father and applied for the order based on their investigation and interview with the children. The judge disregarded the testimony of the DCF..."


I don't know what the Judge disregarded if anything I have no insight into his reasoning although reading the order/opinion ought to answer that very question, and I've not read it, the way it works usually in this matters is that the Judge will consider all testimonies and recommendations and then issues a ruling, not different from a jury rendering a verdict.


"the judge disregarded the testimony of the DCF, Michelle's oldest son, his multiple court records of violence as well as domestic issues with Michelle and the fact that LE had named him the prime suspect in Michelle's disappearance."

Again not having read neither the judge opinion nor the transcript of the proceedings I can't say anything of real value about what transpired in the courtroom other then to say that being named a suspect in a crime that has not even being prosecuted is not a disqualifying factor for child custody purposes, and again I have no opinion about evidence I haven't seen, testimony I haven't heard, and rulings I haven't read.


"Unbelievable, and a decision that shocked the majority of the people following the case as well as Michelle's family and friends."

I'm sorry to hear that and I can sympathize with everyone directly involved here, child custody cases are very hard and emotionally draining, and believe me I know it from personal first hand experience. However parental rights are very strong, as they should be, and it's very difficult to deny a parent custody of his children unless there's a demonstrable danger to the child something that clearly was not evident in the opinion of this Judge.

IMO

Perhaps you should reread what I posted. This was not a child custody issue between YS and DSJr. The DCF applied for protective custody for the children based on their investigation and interview with them.

MOO

 

[Thor]

Perhaps you should reread what I posted. This was not a child custody issue between YS and DSJr. The DCF applied for protective custody for the children based on their investigation and interview with them.

MOO

My opinion applies regardless of who initiated the custodial challenge and the GP were a party to it since they were given temporary custody of the children if I remember correctly, and in any case there's nothing to prevent even now or in the future, the GP to petition the courts for custody of the twins assuming they can prove the children are in danger or that they're abused or neglected or otherwise anything that could disqualify Dale of having custody of his children. The problem here is that there seems to be no compelling evidence to support such allegations and therefore the GP do not have the legal argument necessary to overcome Dale's parental rights. It's also true that simply on the issue of visitations non custodial actors such as the grandparents here, may not have visitation rights depending on the statutes that are present state by state since this is not a federal issue.

I'd like to be clear again that I'm not an attorney and therefore my legal opinions should be viewed in that context. If one really needs good legal advices should refer whatever the issue(s) to a real attorney.

IMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

My opinion applies regardless of who initiated the custodial challenge and the GP were a party to it since they were given temporary custody of the children if I remember correctly, and in any case there's nothing to prevent even now or in the future, the GP to petition the courts for custody of the twins assuming they can prove the children are in danger or that they're abused or neglected or otherwise anything that could disqualify Dale of having custody of his children. The problem here is that there seems to be no compelling evidence to support such allegations and therefore the GP do not have the legal argument necessary to overcome Dale's parental rights. It's also true that simply on the issue of visitations non custodial actors such as the grandparents here, may not have visitation rights depending on the statutes that are present state by state since this is not a federal issue.

I'd like to be clear again that I'm not an attorney and therefore my legal opinions should be viewed in that context. If one really needs good legal advices should refer whatever the issue(s) to a real attorney.

IMO

Well I still think you may be missing the point. The children are in potential danger. That is why DCF recommended that the children be removed from the custody of their father. Additionally he has ALREADY harmed them by preventing the twinners from seeing any family they have known. He may have custody but is very UNFIT as a parent IMO. Plus I mean he still dresses up like superheroes and jedis when it's not Halloween. The judge on PC saw what a freak Dale is and mocked him for that...Michelle kinda did too. I wonder if THAT is why she is no longer with us. All JMO

 

[Thor]

Well I still think you may be missing the point. The children are in poential danger. That is why DCF recommended that the children be removed from the custody of their father. Additionally he has ALREADY harmed them by preventing the twinners from seeing any family they have known. He have have custody but is very UNFIT as a parent IMO. Plus I mean he still dresses up like superheroes and jedis when it's not Halloween. The judge on PC saw what a freak Dale is and mocked him for that...Michelle kinda did too. I wonder if THAT is why she is no longer with us. All JMO

Jazz this is not about missing the point, if the twins are in danger then the GP should sue for custody or go to the police and ask them to intervene. I have no opinion on that because I simply don't know.

As far as the usual Star Wars Saga is concerned, clearly you seem to enjoy it and therefore you'll keep indulging yourself I believe So May the Force be With You! :floorlaugh:

IMO

 

[Thor]

I found this pic online...Someone made a nice graphic lumping Dale in with some fine company. As they say the shoe fits... JMO

Seriously Jazz, a serial killer? Where you're concerned it won't be long before Dale is responsible for climate change, Iraq and the Middle East problems in general, China, and somehow the sinking of the Titanic. So I will retire before the comedy act is over, I'll catch up later.

Good night Jazz.

 

[Jazzmaster]

Seriously Jazz, a serial killer? Where you're concerned it won't be long before Dale is responsible for climate change, Iraq and the Middle East problems in general, China, and somehow the sinking of the Titanic. So I will retire before the comedy act is over, I'll catch up later.

Good night Jazz.

Good night my good friend. I just bring the tidbits and info I find online. Don't shoot the messenger

 

[Thor]

Good night my good friend. I just bring the tidbits and info I find online. Don't shoot the messenger

It's not the messenger It's the message. :moo:

 

[Jazzmaster]

It's not the messenger It's the message. :moo:

I bet if Dale read webseluths he'd be like dang...how'd jazz catch on to me
Hope you have a happy 4th Thor. Thank you to all the service men and women putting themselves in harm's way every day for our freedom. G-D bless America!

 

[Thor]

I bet if Dale read webseluths he'd be like dang...how'd jazz catch on to me
Hope you have a happy 4th Thor. Thank you to all the service men and women putting themselves in harm's way every day for our freedom. G-D bless America!

Happy Fourth to you Jazz and everyone here at websleuths.com. My heart goes out to Michelle and her family ... ...

 

[Kamille]

Happy 4th of July Michelle. Wish you could be home with your family to celebrate the day. :cry:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10010325-19.html

 

[Jazzmaster]

I know early on in the case the media seemed to make make a big deal about Michelle's necklace. Did LE leak this for a reason? I have searched my files and there isn't much else on this... Did Dale leave this behind somewhere when he harmed Michelle? JMO

 

[Thor]

I know early on in the case the media seemed to make make a big deal about Michelle's necklace. Did LE leak this for a reason? I have searched my files and there isn't much else on this... Did Dale leave this behind somewhere when he harmed Michelle? JMO

Jazz, obviously anything that Michelle wore or otherwise was in her possession may be a key piece of evidence if recovered HERE, but it doesn't look likely that the perp(s) kept any mementos or that the primary motive here was a robbery ... he/she/they tossed the phone in a river, the Hummer was clean and the purse was inside it ... however, there can be no question that someone saw the Hummer between arriving at the condo and where it was ultimately abandoned, therefore to me it's really an issue of finding that eyewitness(es) ... somebody surely saw something.

IMO