• #81
  • #82
First posted eight hours ago

“You can see the surface of the Moon…we just went sci-fi.”On flight day seven, images from our @NASAArtemis
II crew amazed, turning science fiction to reality. From the lunar far side to a solar eclipse from the Moon, the views are EVERYTHING. No pressure to pick a favorite.

 
  • #83
Not a fan of this because of the reasons they are doing it. Sure, it's cool to visit the moon, and I like that and find it interesting, but they are hoping to one day colonize the moon/Mars for humans to live on. Why? (and this is the reason why I'm not thrilled about this)... because some people (Elon comes to mind, and there are others IMO) who think that we'll need to live there as Earth will become uninhabitable.

(too many) People (IMO) are really messing up this planet. Climate change, which is spawning off other issues I won't go in to here as it's off topic, but in a nutshell they are going back to the moon to learn how we can live off it and eventually colonize it and/or Mars. :(

sbm

i'd say the reason for these missions is a lot of people want to do them, for various reasons, and only some of those people are thinking about space colonization. it's sort of a political coalition of scientists, people who like exploring, people who want to see us planting flags as a matter of national pride, a few national security types, and people who just think it's cool. ...with the people like musk who believe we should colonize space.

of the ones who think we should colonize space, there's an important distinction to make:
1) wanting to "escape" earth, because we're messing it up with climate change, etc.
2) wanting to have colonies in space so our species won't go extinct if we have a nuclear war or earth gets hit by an asteroid.

those are two different things, but i see #2 getting twisted into #1 in conversations about space colonization. i don't know of anyone whose views fit #1. i think it's a straw man. no amount of environmental damage or social unrest or whatever will make earth worse than living anywhere in space. living in space is unbelievably dangerous and difficult and miserable. and the people who spend a lot of time thinking about space colonization are well aware of that. hell, even after a nuclear war or asteroid impact, the earth would still be a better place to live than anywhere else -- but you would need some surviving humans to come back and live on it.

I've been hearing them discuss that the past 2 nights in a row on Bloomberg TV (financial news) so this thread interested me when I saw it created.

Below is a short video clip from Bloomberg talking about exactly that. I have a quote below that started about 1 min in. There was more after this. I didn't quote the entire clip.

"There's a lot that NASA hopes to gain from the moon. There's this idea of jumpstarting a lunar economy. So finding ways to make money off the moon. Possibly for an economy around the moon. And then, of course, it's learning how to live off another planetary body. That's no small feat. And eventually the goal is to get to Mars. And so learning to live off the surface of the moon, those lessons can then be applied to Mars living some day."

it is NASA's stated goal to return people to the moon and then (using knowledge and technology gained in the process), send people to live on mars. that goal is sort of the overall will of the political coalition i mentioned. it's vague, but to the extent they've planned this, they're talking about small scientific outposts. if you're thinking NASA is saying we need to get ready to move large numbers of people to escape earth, i think you're reading something into it that isn't there.

what their plans basically call for, and what is most likely to actually happen for the foreseeable future, is for the moon and mars to become the next antarctica. a few bases with a small number of people, mostly scientists and explorers, and only very gradually will the numbers of people increase or will they become more self-sufficient. there won't be communities of people just choosing to live their whole lives there, like someone might do in france or ohio. not for a very long time, if ever.
 
  • #84
sbm

i'd say the reason for these missions is a lot of people want to do them, for various reasons, and only some of those people are thinking about space colonization. it's sort of a political coalition of scientists, people who like exploring, people who want to see us planting flags as a matter of national pride, a few national security types, and people who just think it's cool. ...with the people like musk who believe we should colonize space.

of the ones who think we should colonize space, there's an important distinction to make:
1) wanting to "escape" earth, because we're messing it up with climate change, etc.
2) wanting to have colonies in space so our species won't go extinct if we have a nuclear war or earth gets hit by an asteroid.

those are two different things, but i see #2 getting twisted into #1 in conversations about space colonization. i don't know of anyone whose views fit #1. i think it's a straw man. no amount of environmental damage or social unrest or whatever will make earth worse than living anywhere in space. living in space is unbelievably dangerous and difficult and miserable. and the people who spend a lot of time thinking about space colonization are well aware of that. hell, even after a nuclear war or asteroid impact, the earth would still be a better place to live than anywhere else -- but you would need some surviving humans to come back and live on it.


it is NASA's stated goal to return people to the moon and then (using knowledge and technology gained in the process), send people to live on mars. that goal is sort of the overall will of the political coalition i mentioned. it's vague, but to the extent they've planned this, they're talking about small scientific outposts. if you're thinking NASA is saying we need to get ready to move large numbers of people to escape earth, i think you're reading something into it that isn't there.

what their plans basically call for, and what is most likely to actually happen for the foreseeable future, is for the moon and mars to become the next antarctica. a few bases with a small number of people, mostly scientists and explorers, and only very gradually will the numbers of people increase or will they become more self-sufficient. there won't be communities of people just choosing to live their whole lives there, like someone might do in france or ohio. not for a very long time, if ever.
I don't think we have to limit the desire to explore to the two reasons you state. It is just the natural desire of humankind (or really an life) to expand and explore. Why did humans migrate from Africa to the rest of the world? Why did humans migrate from Asia to the Americas? They weren't worried about continuing existence etc. They just wanted to go.

I don't understand arguments against using the Moon's resources. What is wrong with that? Creating and Economy of the Moon is how things get done. Capitalism is the only way to really achieve anything.
 
  • #85
I don't think we have to limit the desire to explore to the two reasons you state. It is just the natural desire of humankind (or really an life) to expand and explore. Why did humans migrate from Africa to the rest of the world? Why did humans migrate from Asia to the Americas? They weren't worried about continuing existence etc. They just wanted to go.
sbm

i totally agree! i named like 5 or 6 reasons. i just emphasized those two to make a distinction i think is important.

I don't understand arguments against using the Moon's resources. What is wrong with that? Creating and Economy of the Moon is how things get done. Capitalism is the only way to really achieve anything.
i mostly agree. for moon resources, and space resources more generally, i am fine with some reasonable restrictions (preserving natural wonders, a resource claim system that doesn't let the first movers permanently monopolize everything, obviously several things if we find life, etc.). but in general, why not? some people take a categorical attitude that it's just wrong for humans to use space resources. i find that ridiculous and bordering on superstitious. what is the principle behind that?? some of the arguments i've run into frankly amount to "rocks' rights". other arguments seem to be motivated by confusion between colonization and colonialism. yes, the words come from the same root. no, there are not any indigenous space people that are in danger of being slaughtered or subjugated.

if we're getting into economics in general, i'm a weirdo who thinks "Capitalism vs. Socialism" is a political cartoon, and in reality all economies are -- and should be -- mixed. to me, not wanting to have a private sector is like wanting to have a boat without a motor. ....and being against regulations and a safety net is like not wanting a rudder or life vests.
 
  • #86
Splashdown is scheduled for 8:07 pm EDT
 
  • #87
The four astronauts who flew around the moon on NASA's Artemis II mission are nearly home, but one of the most dangerous and nerve-racking parts of the mission is still ahead.

NASA astronauts Reid Wiseman, Christina Koch and Victor Glover and Canadian astronaut Jeremy Hansen are set to return to Earth on Friday evening after 10 days in space...
 
  • #88
Splashdown is scheduled for 8:07 pm EDT
Has NASA said what time the separation from the Service Module will occur? I am guessing that is pretty close to interface, but I haven't seen a time anywhere.
ETA: I just found my answer, 7:33 the modules will separate.
 
  • #89
DBM - wrong thread.
 
  • #90
Praying for a safe return to Earth for the Artemis crew.
 
  • #91
gonna be the hardest reentry of all time. reentries on a return from the moon are ~50% faster than reentering from earth orbit, because you're not just scrubbing orbital speed, you're also falling from much higher (i.e., further from earth). right? and these guys went even higher than any of the apollo missions, so falling back even harder.

they'll be ok, though.
 
  • #92
I believe this will be the fastest re-entry so far, almost 24,000 mph at interface. The heat shield on Artemis I did sustain damage but still held up. NASA will do re-entry a little different this time to lessen the length of time of the high head, though it will raise the temp some. I'm sure it will be an exciting ride!
 
  • #93
I'll still be holding my breath until they're back safe and sound. 🫣
 
  • #94
  • #95
Artemis II is coming home!

After an epic 10-day journey around the Moon, Orion is set to return from lunar orbit, blazing back through Earth’s atmosphere at around 25,000 mph, marking a historic milestone for the Artemis program.

Safe re-entry, astronauts — we’re watching with pride.

 
  • #96
Two years ago today, millions across America experienced a total solar eclipse, but this week, four astronauts saw one from space!

They captured these photos showing the moon fully eclipsing the sun. From the crew’s perspective, the moon appears large enough to completely block the Sun, creating nearly 54 minutes of totality and extending the view far beyond what is possible from Earth.

 
  • #97
  • #98
  • #99
  • #100
Artemis II’s journey back to Earth will likely trigger a “sonic boom” so strong that it could end up rattling windows in parts of Southern California. I'm in San Diego, I'll update you all. 🚀🌜🚀🌛
 

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