FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[Cryptic]

You aren't missing anything. Some people like to create their own version of events and pass it off as facts.

Very true.

Then again, some events can be "spun" to two different and equally plausible versions of the same event.

This case could well include elements of the above. What is known is that Morales came out of her home holding a weapon and waving it around (bad idea).

The rest, however, can be spun into two different versions:

Spun version A.

Responsible biker comes close to being injured by a reckless lane change. He gently admonished the other person to be more careful. She responds by hitting his bike and then leaves the scene of an intentional accident. He and some new friends follow her and advise her to stop as the police have been called. They then attempt to converse with her about the accident as she enters her home. She then emerges with a weapon.

Spun version B.

Biker is recklessly blazing down the road and is cut off. He flies into a rage at the other driver. The other driver pulls next to him, but does not hit him or the bike (no damage to either one). He then yells at her again. Frightened, she leaves. Biker and new friends start to chase her. Biker then starts yelling at her as she enters her home. She then enters the home and emerges with a weapon.

In this case, the Biker gets to tell his spin. Morales, however, cant. There is no easy solution to that difference.

 

[Razz]

Very true.

Then again, some events can be "spun" to two different and equally plausible versions of the same event.

This case could well include elements of the above. What is known is that Morales came out of her home holding a weapon and waving it around (bad idea).

The rest, however, can be spun into two different versions:

Spun version A.

Responsible biker comes close to being injured by a reckless lane change. He gently admonished the other person to be more careful. She responds by hitting his bike and then leaves the scene of an intentional accident. He and some new friends follow her and advise her to stop as the police have been called. They then attempt to converse with her about the accident as she enters her home. She then emerges with a weapon.

Spun version B.

Biker is recklessly blazing down the road and is cut off. He flies into a rage at the other driver. The other driver pulls next to him, but does not hit him or the bike (no damage to either one). He then yells at her again. Frightened, she leaves. Biker and new friends start to chase her. Biker then starts yelling at her as she enters her home. She then enters the home and emerges with a weapon.

In this case, the Biker gets to tell his spin. Morales, however, cant. There is no easy solution to that difference.

"Spun versions" as you call them come from witness interviews. Some of the witnesses are the people involved.

Your description of both spins are spin itself. "Blazing recklessly?" (I don't recall reading that. "Flies into a rage". Don't recall reading that either.

I suggest that everyone read the latest article that Kittybunny posted last week and make up your own minds. This article dated January 25, 2022 by Frank Hernandez is a much longer more detailed account of what happened that day. It is a long read but well worth the time. ( I was unable to link as I've used up my free articles).

 

[TGIRecovered]

Very true.

Then again, some events can be "spun" to two different and equally plausible versions of the same event.

This case could well include elements of the above. What is known is that Morales came out of her home holding a weapon and waving it around (bad idea).

The rest, however, can be spun into two different versions:

Spun version A.

Responsible biker comes close to being injured by a reckless lane change. He gently admonished the other person to be more careful. She responds by hitting his bike and then leaves the scene of an intentional accident. He and some new friends follow her and advise her to stop as the police have been called. They then attempt to converse with her about the accident as she enters her home. She then emerges with a weapon.

Spun version B.

Biker is recklessly blazing down the road and is cut off. He flies into a rage at the other driver. The other driver pulls next to him, but does not hit him or the bike (no damage to either one). He then yells at her again. Frightened, she leaves. Biker and new friends start to chase her. Biker then starts yelling at her as she enters her home. She then enters the home and emerges with a weapon.

In this case, the Biker gets to tell his spin. Morales, however, cant. There is no easy solution to that difference.

I tend not to believe the person who ganged up with a bunch of others and followed a lone womann to her home in an angry rage. Especially when that woman makes a totally understandable and legal effort to protect herself from these strangers who are on her property uninvited and ends up dead at the hands of the road rage guy. The only people still alive to tell the story are the other strangers who stalked this woman to her home as a way to "back-up" a guy they feel a kinship with because he is a male on a motorcycle who is pissed off. Automatic buddies.

The following is my message for the murderer:

If there is a fender-bender, report it to police and your insurance. That's it.

If someone attempts to change lanes and fails to notice you enter their blind spot at a high rate of speed, count your lucky stars that your own reclessness didn't get you killed. If your ego is bruised because a woman didn't stick around for you and a bunch of other male strangers to scream at and try to intimidate, check yourself and get off your high horse. If you decide to commit a crime that ends with murder, you belong in prison. Period.

MOO

 

[Tee7077]

Very true.

Then again, some events can be "spun" to two different and equally plausible versions of the same event.

This case could well include elements of the above. What is known is that Morales came out of her home holding a weapon and waving it around (bad idea).

The rest, however, can be spun into two different versions:

Spun version A.

Responsible biker comes close to being injured by a reckless lane change. He gently admonished the other person to be more careful. She responds by hitting his bike and then leaves the scene of an intentional accident. He and some new friends follow her and advise her to stop as the police have been called. They then attempt to converse with her about the accident as she enters her home. She then emerges with a weapon.

Spun version B.

Biker is recklessly blazing down the road and is cut off. He flies into a rage at the other driver. The other driver pulls next to him, but does not hit him or the bike (no damage to either one). He then yells at her again. Frightened, she leaves. Biker and new friends start to chase her. Biker then starts yelling at her as she enters her home. She then enters the home and emerges with a weapon.

In this case, the Biker gets to tell his spin. Morales, however, cant. There is no easy solution to that difference.

There were marks on his saddlebags that matched her car or am I wrong?

 

[Razz]

There were marks on his saddlebags that matched her car or am I wrong?

No one that I know of is denying that she scuffed his saddlebag. But was that worth chasing her and shooting her 5 times, resulting in her death?

Geez, really?

 

[Cryptic]

There were marks on his saddlebags that matched her car or am I wrong?

I don't know whether you are correct or not.

I have read accounts that say that she struck the "bike" (implies damage). Yet, other sources state that there was no damage to the "bike". In the end, I dont know if saddle bags were included as being part of "the bike" or not.

But.... the fact that it could come down to whether or not saddle bags are considered to be "the bike" could point to a very minor collision.

So.... depending on the spin, one could have three concerned citizens following a woman after a very minor collision. Or, three aggressive males chasing a woman after a very minor collision.

 

[Cryptic]

Your description of both spins are spin itself. "Blazing recklessly?" (I don't recall reading that. "Flies into a rage". Don't recall reading that either.

Please note that I was relating how it could be spun from Morales point of view.

As she is deceased, I do not have any direct knowledge on how she would have described the biker's speed. Likewise, I don't truly know how she would describe his demeanor.

So.... I just made hypothetical possibilities.

Perhaps she would have described the speed as: "Slow and careful" and his demeanor as "kind and considerate". Then again- perhaps not.

 

[Razz]

Please note that I was relating how it could be spun from Morales point of view.

As she is deceased, I do not have any direct knowledge on how she would have described the biker's speed. Likewise, I don't truly know how she would describe his demeanor.

So.... I just made hypothetical possibilities.

Perhaps she would have described the speed as: "Slow and careful" and his demeanor as "kind and considerate". Then again- perhaps not.

If you read the Daytona Beach Journalline, you would see that it is very different from the early reporting of this tragic event. No spin there. Just witness accounts and citing from the police report.

 

[Tee7077]

No one that I know of is denying that she scuffed his saddlebag. But was that worth chasing her and shooting her 5 times, resulting in her death?

Geez, really?

I know it's really really hard for you to accept she is anything less the citizen of the year who bears absolutely no blame for any of what happened to her. FYI hitting a motorcyclist intentionally with your car no matter how hard is attempted murder.

 

[happyday]

I know it's really really hard for you to accept she is anything less the citizen of the year who bears absolutely no blame for any of what happened to her. FYI hitting a motorcyclist intentionally with your car no matter how hard is attempted murder.

We really don’t know that it was intentional. The only person who knows that is dead, and the only people saying she was aggressive was the killer and his friends. And it doesn’t sound like there were any injuries or damage. I don’t know if she was aggressive, maybe she was. But he DEFINITELY was aggressive by chasing her home and then shooting and killing her her at her house. I feel like if a person intentionally swerved to hit a motorcycle with her car, the motorcyclist would have at least been thrown off his bike. Nothing like that happened, so I don’t really know that I believe it happened how he says. I definitely don’t believe he should have followed her to her home and kill her.

 

[sumzero]

Biker says library worker pointed gun before she was fatally shot

This news article (posted earlier) contains plenty of information about the incident. The three men, who apparently did not know each other, consistently described the same sequence of events. I don't see any reason to doubt them that the woman tried to run the motorcyclist off the road. That's criminal. No wonder the witnesses followed her. They wanted to be sure LE apprehended her. I doubt any of them expected her to pull a gun, but, in hindsight, it is consistent with her earlier volatile behavior.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Biker says library worker pointed gun before she was fatally shot

This news article (posted earlier) contains plenty of information about the incident. The three men, who apparently did not know each other, consistently described the same sequence of events. I don't see any reason to doubt them that the woman tried to run the motorcyclist off the road. That's criminal. No wonder the witnesses followed her. They wanted to be sure LE apprehended her. I doubt any of them expected her to pull a gun, but, in hindsight, it is consistent with her earlier volatile behavior.

Where does it say that she tried to run him off the road?

 

[Kittybunny]

Classic case of 'he said, she said" with a twist.

He said, she dead.

 

[Gardenista]

One of the early reports said there was a neighbor who witnessed the events at the house. Since he hasn't been charged, I wonder if she corroborated what the men said.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

One of the early reports said there was a neighbor who witnessed the events at the house. Since he hasn't been charged, I wonder if she corroborated what the men said.

Honestly I think the reason he hasn't been charged is there was bias from day 1. They immediately dismissed it as Sara being the aggressor until others started to ask questions like "hey, why'd you chase her? Hey, why'd shoot 5 times? Hey, why were you speeding and harassing others on the roadway?"

I don't know that he'll ever be charged but this is a case where no charges don't necessarily equal no culpability.

 

[sumzero]

Where does it say that she tried to run him off the road?

Excerpts from the article:

The traffic dispute escalated when Morales swerved her car at the biker, the report said. Her vehicle struck the motorcycle’s saddlebags, leaving a scuff mark and almost causing the biker to wreck, according to the report.

...


In a written statement to investigators, Derr said he was riding his motorcycle on 17-92.

“A car ahead of me cut over and almost hit me,” Derr stated. “I managed to dodge the car and got over in the right lane.”

Derr stated the car sped up and ended up next to him and that the “driver looked agitated,” according to the report.

Derr said he “waved” at the driver like “WTF” and “went to speed off to go home.”

“As I pulled away, the car swerved at me striking me on the left side almost causing me to wreck,” Derr stated.

...


Police also found marks on the saddlebags on the left side of Derr’s motorcycle. The marks matched rubber markings on Morales’ Kia, the report said.

...


The blue car then swerved at the motorcyclist and “made contact, almost causing him to wreck,” Hirst stated in the report.

...


Drew told police he was headed home when he saw “a blue car swerve to hit a guy on the motorcycle,” the report stated.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Excerpts from the article:

The traffic dispute escalated when Morales swerved her car at the biker, the report said. Her vehicle struck the motorcycle’s saddlebags, leaving a scuff mark and almost causing the biker to wreck, according to the report.

...


In a written statement to investigators, Derr said he was riding his motorcycle on 17-92.

“A car ahead of me cut over and almost hit me,” Derr stated. “I managed to dodge the car and got over in the right lane.”

Derr stated the car sped up and ended up next to him and that the “driver looked agitated,” according to the report.

Derr said he “waved” at the driver like “WTF” and “went to speed off to go home.”

“As I pulled away, the car swerved at me striking me on the left side almost causing me to wreck,” Derr stated.

...


Police also found marks on the saddlebags on the left side of Derr’s motorcycle. The marks matched rubber markings on Morales’ Kia, the report said.

...


The blue car then swerved at the motorcyclist and “made contact, almost causing him to wreck,” Hirst stated in the report.

...


Drew told police he was headed home when he saw “a blue car swerve to hit a guy on the motorcycle,” the report stated.

The problem is you didn't put it in context.

HE was speeding and she changed lanes. She didn't swerve to hit him initially. Then Mr. Speed Demon got pissed and decided to harass her on the road. That's when she swerved (which no one is defending her for). Stating she tried to run him off the road is an exaggeration.

 

[Cryptic]

One of the early reports said there was a neighbor who witnessed the events at the house. Since he hasn't been charged, I wonder if she corroborated what the men said.

I believe the neighbor did corroborate that she entered the home, then returned with a weapon in her hand and was waving it around. Thus, the events at the home are supported by physical evidence and an independent witness (neighbor).

I think the only way that "D" can be charged would be to find evidence that he participated in a mutual escalation, then followed the victim home.

 

[Razz]

I believe the neighbor did corroborate that she entered the home, then returned with a weapon in her hand and was waving it around. Thus, the events at the home are supported by physical evidence and an independent witness (neighbor).

I think the only way that "D" can be charged would be to find evidence that he participated in a mutual escalation, then followed the victim home.

Well here it is from the Daytona Beach paper dated January 5, 2022:

It started out as a common traffic conflict between commuters. A motorcyclist traveling at a “high rate of speed” was passing a car last November when the car moved into the biker’s lane causing him to swerve, according to a report.

The motorcyclist, Andrew Derr, then “became aggressive,” yelling and waving as he continued to ride next to the car driven by Sara-Nicole Morales, according to the report.

 

[griss]

RSBM

I think the only way that "D" can be charged would be to find evidence that he participated in a mutual escalation, then followed the victim home.

There was an recent article that I can't find now, where one of the pursuing witnesses stated that D kicked SM's car after the initial cutoff, but before her car made contact with his bike. Does anyone else remember that?