FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[Tee7077]

None of my narrative is made up. It is all based on the FACTS of the case as reported by witnesses.
"I think" and " I assume" have nothing to do with facts. Your posts read like fan fiction.
I'm not going to respond to the rest of this ridiculousness.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Oh yes, I'm the one writing fan fiction when you're twisting yourself into a pretzel to defend the indefensible. Just because the guy was on a motorcycle does not give him carte blanche to do whatever the hell he wants. Frankly, he should be prosecuted for any number of things, including speeding (if only a cop had caught that), harassing people on the roadway, following the woman home, AND shooting her 5 times because he got scared. He should be in prison.

 

[Tee7077]

Oh yes, I'm the one writing fan fiction when you're twisting yourself into a pretzel to defend the indefensible. Just because the guy was on a motorcycle does not give him carte blanche to do whatever the hell he wants. Frankly, he should be prosecuted for any number of things, including speeding (if only a cop had caught that), harassing people on the roadway, following the woman home, AND shooting her 5 times because he got scared. He should be in prison.

Frankly if he broke the law he would be charged by the police. I could go back through your posts and copy all the things you state as fact that aren't close. I'd be here for a while though.

 

[Razz]

"So basically this case is all whack because Florida law is kind of whack. I think that these guys knew a lot more about the law than Sara did and intentionally created a situation where they thought they could legally shoot because they were angry."

you honestly think these guys conspired to kill her? The other 2 witnesses who it is said Derr never met before the incident? You gotta be joking.

Well then, how did he know they were carrying? See the video above of Derr's arrest.

 

[darring21]

Frankly if he broke the law he would be charged by the police. I could go back through your posts and copy all the things you state as fact that aren't close. I'd be here for a while though.

This guy was traveling at a high rate of speed.
Began a confrontation with a woman because he was cut off.
Followed the woman to her house.
The woman is on her porch on the phone with police and he knows that.
She waves a gun around.
He shoots her five times. Do you think he even felt threatened? The other guy didn't, he did what a reasonable person does, backs off and says calm down.
He may not have committed a crime, but these are not the actions of a decent person and it is morally indefensible.

 

[Cryptic]

you honestly think these guys conspired to kill her? The other 2 witnesses who it is said Derr never met before the incident? You gotta be joking.

Though I am not @evilwise

I would not say that they conspired to kill her as an individual- no knowledge that she would emerge with a weapon and wave it around.

But.... he might have been "locked, loaded and... trawling for a reason with somebody". The totality seems strange:

- Driving fast, willing to get confrontation over a cut off where nobody was hurt.
- Willing to continue that confrontation through several "one ups" with a woman- despite no property damage.
- After shooting and killing the woman, he seems pretty poised and ready to justify.
- Heck, he even goes into the full and preferred prone position with out being told how to- legs spread, arms extended and palms facing the officers, fingers open.

Some elements just seem a little too practiced or too thought out in advance. Mix that with a willingness to pursue confrontations and there could be concern.

As to whether he can be charged is a different matter.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Frankly if he broke the law he would be charged by the police. I could go back through your posts and copy all the things you state as fact that aren't close. I'd be here for a while though.

Humor me.

 

[Tee7077]

This guy was traveling at a high rate of speed.
Began a confrontation with a woman because he was cut off.
Followed the woman to her house.
The woman is on her porch on the phone with police and he knows that.
She waves a gun around.
He shoots her five times. Do you think he even felt threatened? The other guy didn't, he did what a reasonable person does, backs off and says calm down.
He may not have committed a crime, but these are not the actions of a decent person and it is morally indefensible.

Her hitting him with her vehicle is after she cuts him off btw. You don't want to get shot dont point your gun at people. It's pretty simple. Seems she should have backed off and calmed down especially seeing she was already on the phone with the police

 

[Tee7077]

Though I am not @evilwise

I would not say that they conspired to kill her as an individual- no knowledge that she would emerge with a weapon and wave it around.

But.... he might have been "locked, loaded and... trawling for a reason with somebody". The totality seems strange:

- Driving fast, willing to get confrontation over a cut off where nobody was hurt.
- Willing to continue that confrontation through several "one ups" with a woman- despite no property damage.
- After shooting and killing the woman, he seems pretty poised and ready to justify.
- Heck, he even goes into the full and preferred prone position with out being told how to- legs spread, arms extended and palms facing the officers, fingers open.

Some elements just seem a little too practiced or too thought out in advance. Mix that with a willingness to pursue confrontations and there could be concern.

As to whether he can be charged is a different matter.

This entire post is conjecture

 

[Cryptic]

This entire post is conjecture

Very true- it was posted as conjecture and is conjecture.

That is why I used words / phrases such as: "might", "seems", "seem" and "could be".

 

[darring21]

Her hitting him with her vehicle is after she cuts him off btw. You don't want to get shot dont point your gun at people. It's pretty simple. Seems she should have backed off and calmed down especially seeing she was already on the phone with the police

He followed a pregnant woman home and shot her five times on her property. There were two other people that were also armed. They didn't pull their guns. Apparently they didn't feel threatened, tried to calm the situation down, and were more decent people. Would you have shot her five times?

 

[sumzero]

So, let me get this straight. Based on the news reports:

- She swerved into his lane with her car while he was passing her. Deliberate? It appears so, based on what is reported. Even if not deliberate, it is reckless behavior which could have injured or killed him.
- She tries to use her car to bump his motorcycle. The contact, fortunately, was not enough to knock him over. This, too, seems deliberate -- and horrifying enough to two witnesses that they follow her (until LE can be summoned and can find her).
- She then retrieves her gun from her house and comes back outside. While ranting loudly, she waves her gun around and points it at the motorcyclist. He had not followed her to the house, nor had he pulled out his firearm. The witness on the 911 call immediately describes the incident as "self-defense."

It appears, based on what is reported, that she was highly aggressive. As for the motorcyclist, he's obviously upset about her reckless behavior. Who wouldn't be? There is no reason to think he would've shot her, had she waited for LE to arrive and had she not pointed her gun. Apparently, the witnesses (who have to motive to lie) support him.

So, what am I missing?

 

[Cryptic]

So, what am I missing?

You have missed nothing.

Except.... for the possibly exact opposite spin. This cannot be analyzed as Morales is not here. Perhaps.....

Scene I
- I was driving in my car when a motorcyclist driven by a male blazed by me at very excessive speed. I then accidently cut him off.
- Though there had been no accident, he still chose to yell at me. He had an aggressive tone of voice.
- Angered, I then pulled right up next to his bike, but did not hit it (no damage, no injury). I cant believe he treated me that way. He yelled at me again.

Scene II
- I then left. I thought it was over.
- Three men started to chase me. All on cycles- Maybe a gang? They are yelling at me to "stop" and want to "talk" to me"- yeah right. If they called the police, then why were they trying to make me "stop"? And...stop what- going home?
- Seeking to avoid a confrontation, I continued home.

Scene III
- The aggressive man then attempted to "talk" to me again when I was just trying to enter my home (hmm....No good reason to do so. He had already called the police).

- I armed myself, then went out side to tell them not to enter the property nor the home. I had no idea what the intentions of the three were. I did not trust them....

 

[happyday]

Wow. Angry jerks with guns. Doesn’t usually end well. Yes she was wrong, but so was he. And she’s dead, so he should be charged. MOO

 

[sumzero]

You have missed nothing.

Except.... for the possibly exact opposite spin. This cannot be analyzed as Morales is not here. Perhaps.....

Scene I
- I was driving in my car when a motorcyclist driven by a male blazed by me at very excessive speed. I then accidently cut him off.
- Though there had been no accident, he still chose to yell at me. He had an aggressive tone of voice.
- Angered, I then pulled right up next to his bike, but did not hit it (no damage, no injury). I cant believe he treated me that way. He yelled at me again.

Scene II
- I then left. I thought it was over.
- Three men started to chase me. All on cycles- Maybe a gang? They are yelling at me to "stop" and want to "talk" to me"- yeah right. If they called the police, then why were they trying to make me "stop"? And...stop what- going home?
- Seeking to avoid a confrontation, I continued home.

Scene III
- The aggressive man then attempted to "talk" to me again when I was just trying to enter my home (hmm....No good reason to do so. He had already called the police).

- I armed myself, then went out side to tell them not to enter the property nor the home. I had no idea what the intentions of the three were. I did not trust them....

Which version of events is supported by eyewitness testimony? Maybe this is the reason LE is reluctant to charge the motorcyclist.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

So, let me get this straight. Based on the news reports:

You're missing a lot actually.

- She swerved into his lane with her car while he was passing her. Deliberate? It appears so, based on what is reported.

That isn't what is reported. That's what was initially thought to be true until the witnesses provided more detail. The motorcyclist was speeding. The woman changed lanes in front of him. There is zero evidence this was done on purpose. The motorcyclist then drives up beside her and starts harassing her. This is where she swerves and makes contact, but it's unclear if she did this intentionally or if she was trying to get away from him since he was clearly not behaving rationally.

Even if not deliberate, it is reckless behavior which could have injured or killed him.

His speeding is also reckless (and deliberate) and could have injured or killed anyone else. He also shouldn't be yelling at other drivers while they're driving and while he's driving.

- She tries to use her car to bump his motorcycle. The contact, fortunately, was not enough to knock him over. This, too, seems deliberate -- and horrifying enough to two witnesses that they follow her (until LE can be summoned and can find her).

This part is correct, but the details surrounding the other men and how/why she did this is not clear. Again, he drove up beside her and was yelling at her. Did she feel threatened? Was she trying to get away and accidentally bumped him or was it intentional? We'll never know.

- She then retrieves her gun from her house and comes back outside. While ranting loudly, she waves her gun around and points it at the motorcyclist. He had not followed her to the house, nor had he pulled out his firearm. The witness on the 911 call immediately describes the incident as "self-defense."

Again, you're missing a lot. They actually chased her home. They tried to get her pull over and she didn't so the three of them in three separate vehicles chased her home. She says she feels threatened (per 911 call) and they didn't back off. So she went inside and got her gun. Per WITNESSES, she waved it. Per the guy who killed her, she pointed it at him and HE was the one who says it was self defense. Usually when you're acting in self defense, you don't need to shoot them 5 times to get away.

So, what am I missing?

A lot.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Which version of events is supported by eyewitness testimony? Maybe this is the reason LE is reluctant to charge the motorcyclist.

A little bit of all. Go back a page or two and you'll see updated reports which include what the witnesses have to say.

 

[Cryptic]

Which version of events is supported by eyewitness testimony? Maybe this is the reason LE is reluctant to charge the motorcyclist.

I agree. The core eyewitness accounts regarding the actual shooting make it difficult to charge the motorcyclist. At the end of the day, she entered her home, then came back out holding a weapon.

The eyewitness accounts regarding whether or not D participated in a mutually escalating confrontation are a little more fuzzy. Evidently some eyewitness state that Morales intentionally struck "D" or his motorcycle with her car. But... there is no injury to D and no damage to his bike.

 

[Tee7077]

He followed a pregnant woman home and shot her five times on her property. There were two other people that were also armed. They didn't pull their guns. Apparently they didn't feel threatened, tried to calm the situation down, and were more decent people. Would you have shot her five times?

Do you know where they were all standing when she pulled out the gun? Were the three standing shoulder? Were they 10, 20, 30 feet apart?

 

[Tee7077]

So, let me get this straight. Based on the news reports:

- She swerved into his lane with her car while he was passing her. Deliberate? It appears so, based on what is reported. Even if not deliberate, it is reckless behavior which could have injured or killed him.
- She tries to use her car to bump his motorcycle. The contact, fortunately, was not enough to knock him over. This, too, seems deliberate -- and horrifying enough to two witnesses that they follow her (until LE can be summoned and can find her).
- She then retrieves her gun from her house and comes back outside. While ranting loudly, she waves her gun around and points it at the motorcyclist. He had not followed her to the house, nor had he pulled out his firearm. The witness on the 911 call immediately describes the incident as "self-defense."

It appears, based on what is reported, that she was highly aggressive. As for the motorcyclist, he's obviously upset about her reckless behavior. Who wouldn't be? There is no reason to think he would've shot her, had she waited for LE to arrive and had she not pointed her gun. Apparently, the witnesses (who have to motive to lie) support him.

So, what am I missing?

You aren't missing anything. Some people like to create their own version of events and pass it off as facts. Wish I hade such a wonderful imagination.