FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[JayWill]

The man whom Sara pointed a weapon at was not wearing any thing that even remotely resembled out law / 2% patches, leather, vests and other get up.

Sara's boy friend owns a motorcycle as well. Does that mean that he must be in a motorcycle gang and that Sara, by extension, must be affiliated with a gang?

My view of their rationality would depend on the totality of the situation.

If I deliberately damaged their property, then drove off, I would not like the fact that they were following me- but I would know why.

I think that the totality of the situation was that they blocked her path in a road rage situation, she nudged a bike, they followed her to her home and trespassed, even though they had her car number, she was terrified and got her gun which she no doubt owned to protect her home and family and one of the three pursuers shot her. MOO.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

I think that the totality of the situation was that they blocked her path in a road rage situation, she nudged a bike, they followed her to her home and trespassed, even though they had her car number, she was terrified and got her gun which she no doubt owned to protect her home and family and one of the three pursuers shot her. MOO.

Agree with your comments, though I think it was planned from the start.

In your opinion, do you think there will be a thorough investigation? Or is the case basically closed?

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts, insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. ~Sherlock Holmes~

 

[JayWill]

It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts, insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. ~Sherlock Holmes~

But, isn't that what we do on Websleuths?

 

[Cryptic]

I think that the totality of the situation was that they blocked her path in a road rage situation, she nudged a bike, they followed her to her home and trespassed, even though they had her car number, she was terrified and got her gun which she no doubt owned to protect her home and family and one of the three pursuers shot her. MOO.

I think there are too many spins:

- A female librarian does not damage property- she nudges it.
- The other party must have been raging- because female librarians just do that.
- The librarian must have owned the weapon to protect her home- why else would a librarian possess a weapon?
- The female librarian must have been justified in pointing a weapon at possible trespassers (never a good idea) because the men must have intended to kill her.

But.... despite what I think are too many spins, I would support some charges against the men if they were illegally blocking traffic and provoked Sara.

Whether they are bikers or protestors, people who choose to illegally block traffic cannot be totally blameless if another citizen refuses to submit and an avoidable situation escalates.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Wow, that just reinforces the shooter's self defense claims. The deceased intentionally damages property, then leaves the scene.

When she is confronted about her actions, her claim is not: "I have a child in the home- and I called 911. please back off".

Nor does she describe any threatening behavior by the men (other than they had the nerve to follow her after she damaged the property).

Instead, she appears to feel " 'dissed"- then points a weapon at another person. Its a bad combination that usually leads to a bad outcome.

It does not matter whether it is an inner city male pointing the weapon, or a female librarian. Its just not a good idea.

three men following me home under any circumstances is threatening to me. i usually dont go home if i even think im being followed though.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Respectfully, I do not see what wealth or class has to do with men who bully and harass women.

i will go a step further and point out LE actually has a fairly high rate of DV.

 

[JayWill]

I think there are too many spins:

- A female librarian does not damage property- she nudges it.
- The other party must have been raging- because female librarians just do that.
- The librarian must have owned the weapon to protect her home- why else would a librarian possess a weapon?
- The female librarian must have been justified in pointing a weapon at possible trespassers (never a good idea) because the men must have intended to kill her.

But.... despite what I think are too many spins, I would support some charges against the men if they were illegally blocking traffic and provoked Sara.

Whether they are bikers or protestors, people who choose to illegally block traffic cannot be totally blameless if another citizen refuses to submit and an avoidable situation escalates.

Do you have evidence of the damage?
Incidents like these are commonly called road rage incidents.
That is the reason that most Americans have firearms, isn't it? For protection?
Nowhere did I say that they intended to kill her (even in the event that they did).
MOO.

 

[cvaldez1975]

its weird that there is nothing about ole boy in the news. they usually dig up some history by now.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

I think there are too many spins:

- A female librarian does not damage property- she nudges it.
- The other party must have been raging- because female librarians just do that.
- The librarian must have owned the weapon to protect her home- why else would a librarian possess a weapon?
- The female librarian must have been justified in pointing a weapon at possible trespassers (never a good idea) because the men must have intended to kill her.

But.... despite what I think are too many spins, I would support some charges against the men if they were illegally blocking traffic and provoked Sara.

Whether they are bikers or protestors, people who choose to illegally block traffic cannot be totally blameless if another citizen refuses to submit and an avoidable situation escalates.

In case you are not aware, Sara was not a librarian. Librarians has Master's Degree. Sara worked in a library. Her title was "Library Assistant." I am a librarian but I work in records management for a telecommunications company; records management is strongly related to library work. I'm in Canada.

Anyway, maybe that's not important, but I thought I would mention it.

 

[LadyL]

this is unreal
11 year old without her mom and may have even witnessed her mom being shot
unborn baby dead
all over what? road rage and minimal, if any, damage to a motorcycle?
everybody did the wrong thing here and a whole lot of death is the result

 

[everybodhi]

A few things. I've since learned that Sara was shot with 3 bullets. Also, the motorcycle on Sara's front porch belonged to her boyfriend and is still there. This is per statements made by Sara's family. I still think this murder was planned and premeditated.

Here is a link to an audio (there's no video) of two 911 calls made by the male stalkers of Sara. The first audio is about 2.5 minutes long, and the second audio is about 6.47 minutes long.

The first audio: The men already had Sara's license plate number BEFORE they started following her, as per the 911 call.

The second audio: I'm pretty sure you can hear Sara shout "Let me go" at the 1.13 mark. This is just before Sara shouts: "You're three men. You followed me. Leave me alone." Then Sara is shot several times by Andrew Derr. I find it interesting that the "Let me go" phrase has not been publicized by the media.

Also, the man (not the shooter) on the second 911 call after Sara is shot is just too smooth; he knows all the right words. "It was self-defense." He knew to cover all the angles. I think this murder was planned and premediated. At least one of the men would have gotten inside the house.

Lastly, does anyone have a link to Sara's 911 call, where she stated that the men were threatening her and being aggressive?

Hit-and-run driver shot, killed in confrontation after Orange City crash, police say
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Thanks for clearing up the ownership of the bike on her porch.
In a town of 10,000 people, I wonder if there is any connection between these men and her fiancé.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with road rage. The men purposely caused a minor collision so they would have an excuse to stalk Sara, and either sexually abuse or kill her. That's my opinion.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

this is unreal
11 year old without her mom and may have even witnessed her mom being shot
unborn baby dead
all over what? road rage and minimal, if any, damage to a motorcycle?
everybody did the wrong thing here and a whole lot of death is the result

Personally, I don't think road rage was an issue. Given Andrew Derr's history, he caused a minor accident so he'd have an excuse to stalk Sara. Sara did nothing wrong because those men would have gotten inside the house.

According to the police report, Sara was shot on her lawn, near the garage. According to her mother, the daughter was looking out and saw the shooting. I don't think this was road rage, and I think at least one of the men would have gotten inside the house.

 

[mjp1228]

I am going to re-read your comments, but as per Sara's family (and another man who stated that Derr also stalked and threatened his older mother; I know we cannot discuss Derr's previous history, but this refers to the man's statements) these issues of security cameras and video are still being investigated, plus of course enhancements of any audios. So bottom line is that investigations of audio and video are still going on.

I know I asked about this already, but still haven’t gotten an answer - can you provide any approved source of this information? Or is it your opinion or hearsay that Sara’s family and “another” man made these comments? Please provide links.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

Thanks for clearing up the ownership of the bike on her porch.
In a town of 10,000 people, I wonder if there is any connection between these men and her fiancé.

Yes, it's interesting that it occurred on a day when Sara's boyfriend and father were not home. Was this a coincidence?

 

[wendybtn]

Is it really considered leaving the scene of an accident if there isn’t any damage to a vehicle and nobody is hurt? I seriously doubt the police would have even come out. What proof is there that any “violent road rage” even happened?

That three men were so pissed off over a very minor altercation and proceeded to chase down a woman like a pack of wolves is astounding to me.

In my town, yes, you have to wait for the police even if no one is hurt. Or the police arrest you for leaving the scene and that is a criminal charge.

 

[Snoods]

Depending on where you live, LE is not required to come out to non injury accidents. In my state they discourage the public from calling. Just exchange insurance information and be on your way.

Chased her down like a pack of wolves?

I see a lot of assumptions being made about these bikers. You know a lot of Military and LE wear leather and ride, right? My husband and I ride. We wear leathers. We carry guns. We go to rally's. We are upper middle class. Our kids are Federal and local LE. We are not criminals or scary.

Most bikers now days are more likely to be upper class professionals. You should see all the million dollars RV's at Sturgis.

Moo.

Yes, where I live they also discourage calling for non-injury accidents.

I haven’t made any assumptions or disparaging remarks about people who ride motorcycles, so I’m going to assume you’re not referring to me.

I do think three men chasing after SM for we don’t know how long and following her home is questionable and over the top. Especially since they already had her license plate number.

 

[Snoods]

In my town, yes, you have to wait for the police even if no one is hurt. Or the police arrest you for leaving the scene and that is a criminal charge.

Yikes, that seems harsh. You legally can’t just exchange insurance information after a fender bender and go on with your day? Even if there isn’t any damage?

Edit:
Found this information about Florida law. It is not always necessary to call police after an accident.

Do You Have to Call Police After Car Accident?
As with most legal questions, the answer is — it depends. Florida Statutes section 316.066 establishes when it’s required to obtain a written police report when you’re involved in a car crash. Specifically, it states that — under certain circumstances — a long-form should be completed and submitted to the police department within 10 days after an investigation is completed by the law enforcement officer who investigated the scene of the accident. For this rule to apply, the car accident must fall under one of the following categories:

• Any of the drivers involved were under the influence of drugs or alcohol
• Any of the motor vehicles involved were totaled or had to be towed
• Someone involved in the accident is complaining of pain or discomfort
• A commercial motor vehicle was involved
• There was a fatality (death) at the scene
• 
  Do You Always Have to Call the Police After a Car Accident? - Clark Law

 

[JayWill]

Yikes, that seems harsh. Every single accident? You legally can’t just exchange insurance information after a fender bender and go on with your day? What if there isn’t any damage to vehicles?

Also where I live. If the person drives away, you give the registration plate number to your insurance company and let them fight it out.