FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #34

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  • #701
People talk because they just need to share the horror of it all. On a major highway makes sense, though, when you think about it.

I think we have all heard the Hooters and there have even been pics posted of the location on here at WS.

As for the other location, and I totally respect you for not giving away the exact location, I'd like to pick your brain on it.

Is it a place where the person would have to wait until the evening to do the horror? Is it out of sight of the mainstream? And do you think the average person would think it's a good spot, or do you think the perp might have some knowledge of it as a good spot.

I hope that you can answer these without compromising. anything,

JMO, but I would think anyone would wait until the evening. Not just because it's dark, but there's less people around. Even if they concealed her somehow, like a trash bag, I wouldn't think they would want to risk someone remembering them around whatever dumpster she was put in. I'm not too familar with this business, but IIRC you can't see the dumpster from the road. To me, no dumpster is a good spot and would be too risky, but I don't think like a killer I guess. Nothing stands out to me about this spot. I could think of a ton other more concealed places, but IDK, I look at all dumpsters in Orange Park suspiciously since this happened.

But like I said before, I don't seriously believe this was where she was left.
 
  • #702
Dear WS friend who cares about Somer and her mother:

If you had a six year old child who liked to twirl down the street, never knew a stranger, hugged everybody, and ran off from her little twin and older (9 year old) sister on the way home from school, and wandered into other people's yards looking for a playmate...wandered around water...treehouses...

would you continue to let her walk home from school without someone looking out after her?

If the school called you because they were concerned, or sent out an investigator to your home, and the investigator told you that this was not a good idea, and suggested day care options to you...would YOU still continue to let this little girl roam around?

What is a definition of a good mother, anyway?

To feed, clothe, provide shelter, nurturing, medical care, and SUPERVISION
according to the checklist for potential child endangerment.

Now we are not talking about DT, we are talking about US.

If you had a dog that continually got out and roamed the neighborhood, and you knew someone could grab your dog, or it could get hit by a car, or bite somebody, etc., what would you do? I ask this with all respect.

PLEASE: I am begging people not to post: "What has a dog biting somebody got to do with Somer's murder or whether DT is a good mother???"

I put them in a cage. Or chain them up. DCFS frowns on doing that to kids though.
 
  • #703
RUMOR HALLUCINATION: Where did I read that Somer had been at her Mom's office at one point?

ETA:
Was it Hillary the Coworker RUMOR? brb
 
  • #704
I wondered whether Diena had talked to her coworkers about Somer and whether someone in the office (patient) could have overheard.

In an office like that, it's always made sense (!) to me that the co-workers would talk a lot about their families, and after all, they have to cover one another's shifts, kids get sick, the complain about their spouses, etc.

I WISH SO MUCH I could find the link where the person said that a co-worker told LE that on Oct. 19, DT just "...up and left" without saying anything to anybody, she did not look like anything was wrong, etc."

I want to say (it was a while back) that this was prob, a comment made on one of the news forums, etc., which would classify it as a rumor. But I have always wondered about the sense (!) of going home for lunch with SP,
coming back, texting, leaving (apparently there was no time clock or record of exactly when she left). SORRY FOR THE LOOPHOLES, FOLKS!
 
  • #705
Where did I read that Somer had been at her Mom's office at one point?

ETA:
Was it Hillary the Coworker RUMOR? brb

I read it too, but cannot remember.
 
  • #706
Human, I love it when someone shares my hallucinations. I'm looking. I hate to be without a link!
 
  • #707
JMO, but I would think anyone would wait until the evening. Not just because it's dark, but there's less people around. Even if they concealed her somehow, like a trash bag, I wouldn't think they would want to risk someone remembering them around whatever dumpster she was put in. I'm not too familar with this business, but IIRC you can't see the dumpster from the road. To me, no dumpster is a good spot and would be too risky, but I don't think like a killer I guess. Nothing stands out to me about this spot. I could think of a ton other more concealed places, but IDK, I look at all dumpsters in Orange Park suspiciously since this happened.

But like I said before, I don't seriously believe this was where she was left.

1. Why don't you think that it is not the one?

2. Anything else that you have heard?

I live out side of a city of 85,000. If there is anything here that happens and I want to know about it, I can find out enough about it in about three phone calls.

We had a murder this summer that I wasn't that interested in because it was in a drug neighborhood. The murderer was an out-of-towner and an innocent got killed. I felt it was not a threat to my family and the community at large, so not much interest.

People I knew ,knew the victim. The murderer is on trial now. There was an incident that started the whole downhill slide. It turns out that I know the people who were involved. Had I wanted to know about it, I could have found out .

I think it is totally strange that there is nothing out there in rumor land.
 
  • #708
Thank you ... because I wasn't sure what anyone was thinking. People keep posting that statement by the Sheriff as if it is still true today.

I don't think that is true. I just think the Sheriff has not made public ANY of those who have been cleared. Because to clear them, he may have had to reveal why parts of the investigation made it seem they could be the one.

JMO

Yes, Noway (lol, look at those 2 words together), ...reveal why parts of the investigation made it seem they could be the one...?

I feel that way about the autopsy report, too, and even the viewing of the body, after I spoke at length with the Funeral Director. He mentioned that parent(s) or closest loved ones usually would at least be able to touch a hand or a foot...and we know Somer's legs were intact ... more than anything to gain closure. That many families could not accept/believe the child was dead until they had actually seen the child, touched the child. That it was amazing how thorough reconstruction could be unless a person had been deceased for a long, long time. And even then, it was possible.

"We're not going to be allowed to see her," and
"I don't know anything (autopsy) ... not even the day she passed away,"
have always been strange, to me. Sad, but strange.
 
  • #709
Yes, Noway (lol, look at those 2 words together), ...reveal why parts of the investigation made it seem they could be the one...?

I feel that way about the autopsy report, too, and even the viewing of the body, after I spoke at length with the Funeral Director. He mentioned that parent(s) or closest loved ones usually would at least be able to touch a hand or a foot...and we know Somer's legs were intact ... more than anything to gain closure. That many families could not accept/believe the child was dead until they had actually seen the child, touched the child. That it was amazing how thorough reconstruction could be unless a person had been deceased for a long, long time. And even then, it was possible.

"We're not going to be allowed to see her," and
"I don't know anything (autopsy) ... not even the day she passed away,"
have always been strange, to me. Sad, but strange.

You spoke with the funeral director for Somer?
 
  • #710
Yes, Noway (lol, look at those 2 words together), ...reveal why parts of the investigation made it seem they could be the one...?

I feel that way about the autopsy report, too, and even the viewing of the body, after I spoke at length with the Funeral Director. He mentioned that parent(s) or closest loved ones usually would at least be able to touch a hand or a foot...and we know Somer's legs were intact ... more than anything to gain closure. That many families could not accept/believe the child was dead until they had actually seen the child, touched the child. That it was amazing how thorough reconstruction could be unless a person had been deceased for a long, long time. And even then, it was possible.

"We're not going to be allowed to see her," and
"I don't know anything (autopsy) ... not even the day she passed away,"
have always been strange, to me. Sad, but strange.

I think some people would consider that further mutilation of the body and would not have it done.
 
  • #711
RUMOR HALLUCINATION: Where did I read that Somer had been at her Mom's office at one point?

ETA:
Was it Hillary the Coworker RUMOR? brb

No. It was a comment left on a blog where the poster had a neighbor who worked with DT at the OP office. She said the neighbor had given Somer a ride home from the office about two weeks or so before she was killed.

She did not state why the co-worker gave Somer the ride home and DT did not.
 
  • #712
Yes, Noway (lol, look at those 2 words together), ...reveal why parts of the investigation made it seem they could be the one...?

I feel that way about the autopsy report, too, and even the viewing of the body, after I spoke at length with the Funeral Director. He mentioned that parent(s) or closest loved ones usually would at least be able to touch a hand or a foot...and we know Somer's legs were intact ... more than anything to gain closure. That many families could not accept/believe the child was dead until they had actually seen the child, touched the child. That it was amazing how thorough reconstruction could be unless a person had been deceased for a long, long time. And even then, it was possible.

"We're not going to be allowed to see her," and
"I don't know anything (autopsy) ... not even the day she passed away,"
have always been strange, to me. Sad, but strange.


Maybe after going through this DT had the common decency not to put her daughters body through any more torture.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lquNKu5uN3k[/ame]
 
  • #713
1. Why don't you think that it is not the one?

2. Anything else that you have heard?

I live out side of a city of 85,000. If there is anything here that happens and I want to know about it, I can find out enough about it in about three phone calls.

We had a murder this summer that I wasn't that interested in because it was in a drug neighborhood. The murderer was an out-of-towner and an innocent got killed. I felt it was not a threat to my family and the community at large, so not much interest.

People I knew ,knew the victim. The murderer is on trial now. There was an incident that started the whole downhill slide. It turns out that I know the people who were involved. Had I wanted to know about it, I could have found out .

I think it is totally strange that there is nothing out there in rumor land.

I don't think it's the one because I heard this not too long after her funeral. I would think if this employee was just freely telling customers, the rumor would be circulating much more. Maybe it is, and I just haven't heard it. But I've heard the Hooters dumpster from many more people.

As for rumors, like I said maybe I would hear more if I lived closer to that neighborhood or knew someone with some connection to the case. I heard rumors early on about WLK as a suspect, but we've discussed that here before and I don't doubt many locally were on here reading and repeating theory as truth, KWIM? Some of the info seemed to be taken word for word from things I saw written here, and I heard nothing that wasn't already talked about here.

I saw someone post awhile back (or am I hallucinating?) that Orange Park has a population of about 9000 and is a small town. Let me see if I can explain this without confusing anyone more---Clay County, where Orange Park is, is about 650 square miles. There are a few incorporated areas of the county, including the town of Orange Park (incorporated area is about 5 sq. miles, population of 9000), town of Green Cove Springs (about 8 or 9 sq. miles) and two other small incorporated areas.

The rest of the area is unincorporated (the majority of the county). I have an Orange Park address, but don't live in the town of Orange Park. Last estimate I saw for population on Clay County was about 185,000 people, most of which live in unincorporated areas. So while some neighborhoods can have a "small town" feel to them, it's not such a small town that everyone knows everyone and hears everything....did I explain this clearly?
 
  • #714
A general FYI regarding school protocol:I have mentioned that my son is a teacher (special education, grades K-5).
I asked him several questions without disclosing the reason:

Q: If you knew of a child age 6 or 7 who walked home with a twin and a 9-10 year old, would that be cause for alarm?

A: Not really, we have a lot of kids (that age) who walk...but usually with an older child.

Q: If the girl ran off a lot and you knew about it, would you investigate it?

A: Depends on other factors, like, you know, if the she had bruises, things like that...

Q: What about a child that got into a fight at school, hit another child with a backpack or something like that?

A: Well, in any case where there is hitting or physical contact involved, we have to deal with that...first of all, I would try to determine what happened. Then I would contact one or both parents and inform them.

Q: And you would document it?

A: Document, everything.

Q: If you suspected a child was at risk - say two or more of these factors (above) were involved, what would you do?

A: We have what is called a SWAT TEAM. If one of us is concerned, we get the team together - teacher(s), guidance, social worker. We all know the child and we determine what we should do.

Q: Are the parents invited to that?

A: No it is our team. Parents can come if they want to.

Q: To what extent do you involve the parents?

A: Inform the parent of incidents or concerns and schedule a conference with them, with or without the team, depending on where in school the problems are happening. If it is a lot of things like you said, have the parents meet with the team and make recommendations.

Q: What is the protocol for abuse. You have called DCFS?

A: I did not (do not) personally call DCFS. I alert the guidance and social worker and they make that call.

Q: They do not call the police?

A: No, the procedure is to call DCFS.

Q: Is there a file kept on the child?

A: Of course there is a file/files, because everybody involved documents everything.

Q: What are some reasons you have alerted DCFS?

A: Suspected incest or sexual abuse, child filthy, body odor, child talking about drug use at home, suspicious marks on the child, child saying there is nobody at home, things like that. (A lot of the kids he has have no parents, live with grandparents, have parent(s) in jail or parents so high when they come in they can hardly walk/talk).

Q: Have you had to call more than once on a child?

A: Of course, because the parent had a disconnected phone, or didn't respond to any calls, refused to come in, or do anything about the problems, yes. Whenever we suspect there is anything happening, we discuss it and the call is made.

Q: And of course the principal is made aware of this.

A: The principal is aware of anything outstanding about any child, especially when the child is at-risk.

I then told him about the situation with the DCFS call. He stated that is exactly how it happens. I told him about the "unfounded" status and the suggestions about day care, etc., and how it was declined.

A: Mom, I hate to tell you this, but in my school, the majority of parents are like her.

Q: Is there anything else you can tell me?

A: I am very tired and will be working from 7:45 a.m. till after a school board meeting at 8:30 can I go home now?
 
  • #715
You spoke with the funeral director for Somer?

No, I did not. I spoke with a well-known funeral director here in FL who is familiar with child death, child homicide and every other kind of death in the most gruesome of circumstances. He shared that regarding viewing of the deceased child, the parent is carefully and professionally prepared, and that it is handled with the utmost delicacy and compassion.
 
  • #716
I asked earlier if anyone had a timeline in mind. No one responded. I take that to mean no one has one. So it's pretty nebulous in your mind when she was nabbed as some of you say, and killed when? Right then? Or do you imagine she was kept overnight? When do you think this person found the right moment in your theory of the crime to dispose of Somer's body? For most people on here it begins and ends with someone grabbing her. Details people, details. If you can not work it out, how do you expect to solve anything?
 
  • #717
Maybe after going through this DT had the common decency not to put her daughters body through any more torture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lquNKu5uN3k

As I stated previously, we know that Somer's legs were intact and her upper body covered in refuse, nothing has been said about her being compacted, and most recently here it has been debated as to whether she was even placed in a dumpster....and just for the sake of your arugment, Dr. F., I am amazed at the indelicacy and cruelty of your posting this gruesome photo of some human being who would probably have not wanted his or her mangled body viewed on WS or elsewhere. I don't see the point of this photo at all except for shock value.

Re-read your statement and explain to me how DT touching her hand or her foot would have constitued her "putting her daughter's body through any more torture."
 
  • #718
A general FYI regarding school protocol:I have mentioned that my son is a teacher (special education, grades K-5).
I asked him several questions without disclosing the reason:

Q: If you knew of a child age 6 or 7 who walked home with a twin and a 9-10 year old, would that be cause for alarm?

A: Not really, we have a lot of kids (that age) who walk...but usually with an older child.

Q: If the girl ran off a lot and you knew about it, would you investigate it?

A: Depends on other factors, like, you know, if the she had bruises, things like that...

Q: What about a child that got into a fight at school, hit another child with a backpack or something like that?

A: Well, in any case where there is hitting or physical contact involved, we have to deal with that...first of all, I would try to determine what happened. Then I would contact one or both parents and inform them.

Q: And you would document it?

A: Document, everything.

Q: If you suspected a child was at risk - say two or more of these factors (above) were involved, what would you do?

A: We have what is called a SWAT TEAM. If one of us is concerned, we get the team together - teacher(s), guidance, social worker. We all know the child and we determine what we should do.

Q: Are the parents invited to that?

A: No it is our team. Parents can come if they want to.

Q: To what extent do you involve the parents?

A: Inform the parent of incidents or concerns and schedule a conference with them, with or without the team, depending on where in school the problems are happening. If it is a lot of things like you said, have the parents meet with the team and make recommendations.

Q: What is the protocol for abuse. You have called DCFS?

A: I did not (do not) personally call DCFS. I alert the guidance and social worker and they make that call.

Q: They do not call the police?

A: No, the procedure is to call DCFS.

Q: Is there a file kept on the child?

A: Of course there is a file/files, because everybody involved documents everything.

Q: What are some reasons you have alerted DCFS?

A: Suspected incest or sexual abuse, child filthy, body odor, child talking about drug use at home, suspicious marks on the child, child saying there is nobody at home, things like that. (A lot of the kids he has have no parents, live with grandparents, have parent(s) in jail or parents so high when they come in they can hardly walk/talk).

Q: Have you had to call more than once on a child?

A: Of course, because the parent had a disconnected phone, or didn't respond to any calls, refused to come in, or do anything about the problems, yes. Whenever we suspect there is anything happening, we discuss it and the call is made.

Q: And of course the principal is made aware of this.

A: The principal is aware of anything outstanding about any child, especially when the child is at-risk.

I then told him about the situation with the DCFS call. He stated that is exactly how it happens. I told him about the "unfounded" status and the suggestions about day care, etc., and how it was declined.

A: Mom, I hate to tell you this, but in my school, the majority of parents are like her.

Q: Is there anything else you can tell me?

A: I am very tired and will be working from 7:45 a.m. till after a school board meeting at 8:30 can I go home now?

What does this have to do with Somer?

Your convo is generic. His statement " but, in my school, the majority of parents are like her".

Her and about a million other parents. Other parents who have not lost a child to a murder.
 
  • #719
RUMOR HALLUCINATION: Where did I read that Somer had been at her Mom's office at one point?

ETA:
Was it Hillary the Coworker RUMOR? brb

I had recently posted that it is possible for employees at some friendly places (and I understand the dentist was very kind) would allow a parent to bring a child for a short while before or after school; we do that where I work as long as the child is well-behaved. I suggested that it wouldn't be unusual for Somer to wait there and have a snack, or color or otherwise occupy herself playing till DT could escort her home.

This would not solve the problem of the other 2 children walking unsupervised, but the walking was not so much of an issue, IMM, as Somer's specific behavior of running off. Perhaps the Somer at work came from that post?
 
  • #720
I think some people would consider that further mutilation of the body and would not have it done.

If you are talking about an autopsy, it is a mandatory thing whenever there is a child homicide. Automatic.
 
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