FLDS compound in Texas Court proceedings ONLY please!!!!!

[mollymalone]

A woman was arrested for making a false report of abuse to a former FLDS member. I don't know if it's the same person that made the initial reports that sparked this. But the women is being held and her bail is set a 20K

Is that Swinton in Colorado Springs? Is that a high bail I wonder?

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:08 p.m.
Attorney asks again to compare damage from removing the children from the parents versus giving them back to parents for girls age 5 to 11 in the short run. The witness of the children the young preadolescent girls are most vulnerable because its a time of life when they look to older women to see how to live. They are the most vulnerable because of a community that has sexual abuse, he said.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:15 p.m. Witness said typical foster care placement wold not be ideal environment for the kids from YFZ Ranch. Maybe at some point, it would be reasonable.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Great summary. I too think that's what will occur.

Look out for some violence to erupt when this decision is handed down! Especially when those 84 woman are order to leave there children under 4. Thats going to be coming soon! There is no way the judge will allow them to remain with there kids.

 

[mollymalone]

Look out for some violence to erupt when this decision is handed down! Especially when those 84 woman are order to leave there children under 4. Thats going to be coming soon! There is no way the judge will allow them to remain with there kids.

I'm not sure there will be violence but there will be an uproar and they'll be stepping up their pr campaign.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:20 p.m. - The children from the ranch believe they should not talk about certain things of their life, and should be passive-aggressive in some of their behavior, the witness said.
Now attorneys for boys and girls ages birth through 4 ask questions. Witness said kids are healthy and the medical aspect of their life needs to be investigated and made known to people who care for them.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:35 p.m. - An attorney speaking for lawyers representing the youngest children asks: Would it be worse for the well-being of the younger children to be returned to the FLDS sect home, or to be separated from their familiar environment?
To be taken from their environment would be worse, the psychiatrist says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:45 p.m. - The psychiatrist leaves the stand, and the prosecution rests.
Attorneys for fathers call their first witness.
He reels off his education, including a doctorate in religious studies concentrating on Mormonism.
There's nothing in any of the foundational Scripture that gives the proper age for marriage, he says under questioning.
FLDS considers the Bible the word of God, he says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/


Side note from me(Ladybass) No objections?? State is letting them hang themselves

 

[mollymalone]

True, but this particular branch of the FLDS is in question and they follow Warren Jeff's teachings, and among his directives is the marrying of underage children, the removal of boys who are in competition and the removal of any man he considers competition, or chooses to torment by removing them from their families, thus tormenting the family by their separation from him and being reassigned.

Edited to add: Ladybass, they can put on all the experts they want to talk about OTHER fundamentalists and it won't do any good because their beliefs and lifestyles aren't in question, this group of people's is.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

2:57 p.m. - The FLDS generally expels members who engage in extramarital sex, the religious expert testifies.
In his experience, he says under questioning, parents would not approach a girl balking at marriage by telling her she will go to hell or have to leave the community.
But there could be some spiritual consequences discussed with the female, he says.
"Basically, they're into matchmaking," the expert says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Leila]

1:25 p.m. - Court is still not in session. Lawyers trickle in and huddle in groups, talking about the case. A few people from FLDS sit and wait, and some talk to a reporter.

I doubt they're going to finish this up by 4:00pm, unless the judge has already come to some sort of decision.

I can't see the judge opting to return the children to the YFZ ranch.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

3:06 p.m. - The attorney for Child Protective Services begins cross-examination of the religious expert.
"If the children are reporting that when they marry is when the prophet says, 'You marry,' would that be consistent?" the attorney says.
Among the FLDS, many opinions have been expressed about the right age for a girl to marry, the expert says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

3:11 p.m. - A child's attorney asks the religious expert whether he's saying that differences exist among sect members and their beliefs.
"You cannot treat them all the same. They're not homogeneous," the religious expert says.
The 20,000 FLDS members will probably always recognize a single prophet, but how much they adhere to the prophet's teachings just depends, the expert says.
The attorney asks whether the expert has heard of "lying for the Lord."
"There are times when they can be deceptive - basically, when they feel their survival is at stake," the expert says.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[LinasK]

3:06 p.m. - The attorney for Child Protective Services begins cross-examination of the religious expert.
"If the children are reporting that when they marry is when the prophet says, 'You marry,' would that be consistent?" the attorney says.
Among the FLDS, many opinions have been expressed about the right age for a girl to marry, the expert says.
Some church leaders have said 18, and others have said that when a female begins her menstrual cycle, that's a good time, he says.
They also generally look at the child individually, the expert says. One child might be ready at 16, but a less responsible one "might have to wait until she gets older."

I started at age 11!

 

[mollymalone]

This expert hasn't been there 24/7 and he has no real knowledge of what goes on in that temple, especially if he's an outsider.


"The child's attorney asks about the bed in the temple, an item mentioned in many news reports. The bed is there, the expert says, because the FLDS members might fast, and when hundreds of people fast, there might be incidences of fainting. To his knowledge, he says, no sex has occurred in the temple."

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

3:21 p.m. - An attorney for parents objects to the line of questioning about Jeffs, noting that, "He's in jail somewhere."
It turns out that Jeffs is the father of the child the attorney is representing.
Another child's attorney asks: Isn't it true that Mr. Jeffs not only encourages marriage between older men and underage girls, but he also participates in it himself - a 40-year-old who marries underage girls?
It's not a case of some sort of "leering" yen for underage girls, the expert says. Instead, what probably happens is that Jeffs sees that a girl has reached adulthood as defined by the community, and then he offers the girl the opportunity for marriage.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

3:42 p.m. - Rumors, fueled by the passage of a black limousine, resurface among crowds outside the courthouse that Oprah is in town. Her rumored location is Miss Hattie's.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[mollymalone]

3:42 p.m. - Rumors, fueled by the passage of a black limousine, resurface among crowds outside the courthouse that Oprah is in town. Her rumored location is Miss Hattie's.

(Blowing raspberry) Just what's needed in that town right now. I guess since Fox and CNN and the rest interviewed the FLDS members first she's got to make up for lost time.

Edited to add: I am glad that attorney posed the question about Jeff's and the age of marriage. It said that attorney's client was a child that was fathered by Jeffs.

 

[golfmom]

Live courtroom updates are being provided here: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/18/live-from-the-courthouse-day-2-of-updates-from/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Warren Jeffs may be called to testify in Texas custody case


http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271716,00.html