FLDS - The Children

[mysteriew]

A little more detail but not much. Still it is saying very young, and there are kids with multiple fractures.

"Specifics about the investigation are confidential in order to protect the privacy of the children and others," Cockerell said. "But I can tell you generally, we are further investigating the following findings: historical physical injuries and fractures that we have found via medical exams and medical record review. Several of these fractures have been found in very young children and several had multiple fractures."

Most of the information about the fractures was reported to Child Protective Services by the children or their mothers. Few X-rays have been done on the children, agency officials said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5742558.html

Note the sources of info. Their medical records, medical exams, the mothers and the children themselves. Few xrays have been done.

 

[mollymalone]

Good for them!

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275171,00.html

Two boys who have turned 18 since being placed in state custody have chosen to stay in the foster facilities with the others. Meisner said it isn't unusual for a teenager to "age" out of the system but choose to remain in state care while they continue their education.

"We have transitional housing programs and many other programs to help them and make sure they are armed with the skills to make it on their own," she said. "Texas has done a lot in this area."

 

[mollymalone]

A little more detail but not much. Still it is saying very young, and there are kids with multiple fractures.


Note the sources of info. Their medical records, medical exams, the mothers and the children themselves. Few xrays have been done.

That phrase "very young children" is disturbing. Just "how young" are they referring to? Toddlers or babies...?

 

[mysteriew]

That phrase "very young children" is disturbing. Just "how young" are they referring to? Toddlers or babies...?

How about multiple fractures? How many per child?

 

[mollymalone]

How about multiple fractures? How many per child?

That too! And were they set properly.

 

[Leila]

Good for them!

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275171,00.html

Two boys who have turned 18 since being placed in state custody have chosen to stay in the foster facilities with the others. Meisner said it isn't unusual for a teenager to "age" out of the system but choose to remain in state care while they continue their education.

"We have transitional housing programs and many other programs to help them and make sure they are armed with the skills to make it on their own," she said. "Texas has done a lot in this area."

This is good! Two boys that will have some skills.

 

[Floh]

Good for them!

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275171,00.html

Two boys who have turned 18 since being placed in state custody have chosen to stay in the foster facilities with the others. Meisner said it isn't unusual for a teenager to "age" out of the system but choose to remain in state care while they continue their education.

"We have transitional housing programs and many other programs to help them and make sure they are armed with the skills to make it on their own," she said. "Texas has done a lot in this area."

Marvelous news! these boys won't be lost! :woohoo:

but i am interested to know how come they were still around in the compound at 17? were they special in some way? out of the ordinary? of 'royal' blood?

 

[LinasK]

Good for them!

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275171,00.html

Two boys who have turned 18 since being placed in state custody have chosen to stay in the foster facilities with the others. Meisner said it isn't unusual for a teenager to "age" out of the system but choose to remain in state care while they continue their education.

"We have transitional housing programs and many other programs to help them and make sure they are armed with the skills to make it on their own," she said. "Texas has done a lot in this area."

Yea Texas!:clap::dance:

 

[mysteriew]

What are the medical practices within the group? Dr. David Blodgett is director of public health for the southern Utah region. He said this is a very difficult community to help in terms of public health because it's a very closed community, and they're actually resistant to public health efforts. In fact, he said the public health clinic in the Colorado City/Hildale region was closed because no one was using it.

snip...So what does this isolation mean to public health? An example is they have a raw milk dairy, and Dr. Blodgett said about once a year, they have an outbreak of some type. The outbreak can be hazardous to children and pregnant women. We don't know about that, we don't hear about that, and it would be handled differently if it was happening in the valley. We'd be saying don't drink this milk, but we don't know about that down there.

And a lot of people have asked if the children are vaccinated? The view of the sect tends to be don't get vaccinated, but it's not a blanket policy. So some people do have their children vaccinated. But what that means is that we kind of don't know how the children will do now that they're out in more general populations. It could spell trouble if they are exposed to certain diseases that could have been prevented.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3193024

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have no problem with them drinking raw milk nor do I have a problem with them choosing not to vaccinate.

 

[FlowerChild]

I have no problem with them drinking raw milk nor do I have a problem with them choosing not to vaccinate.

Well then the parents shouldn't get upset with CPS when all the kids get chicken pox, measles, mumps etc. It's fine to chose not to vaccinate, but IF that is your choice and your child ends up dead or severely handicapped from diptheria or polio or ends up with vision issues from measles - well - it was their CHOICE and their chance to take. They cannot blame CPS for something directly resulting from what THEY decided to do.

The raw milk thing is a personal choice - I drank raw milk as a kid and if the herd is healthy and you are diligent with sanitary procedures in the dairy, it's not a problem. You do have to be aware of the possible issues though and be very very clean - take NO CHANCES!

My Opinion

 

[mysteriew]

I have no problem with them drinking raw milk nor do I have a problem with them choosing not to vaccinate.

I confess, I don't have as much of a problem with the raw milk. My grandparents had milk cows and my grandmother made butter. So I grew up drinking raw milk and eating unpasturized butter. Yes, I know that it has been proven to cause illness- but I don't know how high the incidence is.

Vaccinations however could be a bigger problem, especially right now. These kids came from a closed environment and there were limits to the number of persons they came in contact with. As long as they didn't come into contact with a person with a disease, they didn't really need the vaccinations. But the increased exposure to other people now, means an increased risk.

They are exposed to a lot of people. It would only take exposure to one person who carried an illness to cause a widespread illness in the kids. Due to the number of pregnant children, that is especially a concern. Hopefully, with most other people being vaccinated, that won't be a problem.

 

[SewingDeb]

I just read online the comments noted above that 41 kids may currently or previously had broken bones. My initial reaction was thank goodness we removed the kids. Then it occurred to me that that is 10% of the kids. I think that if we go to the general public, the percentage of kids that have ever broken a bone would be higher. I actually agree with the FLDS that this fact is being mentioned in a political fashion against the FLDS. If the broken bones are from accidents and not abuse AND if they were treated propperly and followed up on, then that statistic itself doesn't worry me. That number alone doesn't provide enough information to decide one way or the other whether there was abuse going on - in the form of broken bones that is.

My opinion.

A doctor from John Hopkins said on Nancy Grace last night that 5 in 1000 children break a bone by age 16.

 

[FlowerChild]

A doctor from John Hopkins said on Nancy Grace last night that 5 in 1000 children break a bone by age 16.

Per Dr From J-Hopkins
Broken Bones - Normal kids .05%
Broken Bones - YFZ Kids 8.5%

Theres a big difference between the normal .05% of kids with evidence of broken bones and 8.5% of kids with evidence of broken bones. And that only figures in kids age 0-16 - and we know there are about 30 YFZ kids that are supposedly age 17 - which makes the percentage even HIGHER in reality.

I would certainly say that 8.5% of the YFZ kids with OVERT evidence of broken bones indicates something VERY ABNORMAL TO ME. And I imagine to CPS as well. CPS would be derelict in their DUTY if they didn't investigate further WHY there seems to be evidence of so many broken bones with only the most cursory and minimal of investigation completed. And they did say that broken bones were found among VERY SMALL children - perhaps too young to be ON a trampoline Or "falling" hard enough to break BONES???!!! If that many little kids are falling down something is wrong - you expect such injuries to happen with parents who are drug abusers or alcoholics or mentally ill because of parental negligence - and the FLDS (with multiple Mommies per child) is the LAST group who would seem at risk for that type of negligence - so IT MUST BE SOMETHING ELSE???

41 kids with broken bones out of the 464 from the YFZ Ranch is the equivalent of 85 children in a group of 1000 kids of the same ages in say in Dallas - and 85 kids with broken bones out of 1000 is a LOT of broken bones for normal, healthy kids - normal kids who play organized SPORTS, kids with trampolines and skateboards and skates, kids who play on swings and slides and monkey bars, kids who swim and climb and imitate super-heroes, little girls who aren't weighed down with ankle length dresses and who take gymnastics classes. Normal kids are involved in 100 different activities every day that potentially could result in broken bones - and yet only 5 out of a thousand of them break a bone. YFZ Kids don't do ANY of those activities (except trampoline) and 85 out of 1000 of them SOMEHOW end up with one or more broken bones before age 16....HMMMMM????

My Opinion

 

[thefragile7393]

Well then the parents shouldn't get upset with CPS when all the kids get chicken pox, measles, mumps etc. It's fine to chose not to vaccinate, but IF that is your choice and your child ends up dead or severely handicapped from diptheria or polio or ends up with vision issues from measles - well - it was their CHOICE and their chance to take. They cannot blame CPS for something directly resulting from what THEY decided to do.

The raw milk thing is a personal choice - I drank raw milk as a kid and if the herd is healthy and you are diligent with sanitary procedures in the dairy, it's not a problem. You do have to be aware of the possible issues though and be very very clean - take NO CHANCES!

My Opinion

When was the last time diptheria or polio was in the US? Check out the weekly MMRWR from the CDC first. Measles can be safely treated without the complications, as can all the VADs, including ones that children aren't likely to get here. They CAN blame CPS if something happens because of the vaccines, though it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove it and it would go nowhere, as CPS was, in their mind, acting on the best interests of the children, and no one is held accountable in the vaccine world for damage that supposedly dosn't happen or rarely happens in the first place. And no vaccine is 100% effective in every person...who gets the blame should they get the illness they were vax'ed for? Note, I'm not going to start a debate, nor respond to anyone who wants to try...not the forum for it and I don't debate anyway. It's just very aggrivating to see people taking issue with minor things and slamming them, when really there are bigger issues with these kids then lack of vaccinations and raw milk....especially when there's tons of misinformation and prejudice from the un-educated and ignorant on topics like this. I'm more concerned about treating them for any abuse they may have encountered, not the non-following of mainstream parenting that a lot of people, not just this faction of the FLDS, follow.

 

[Leila]

There's a headline at the Fox News website that there's an outbreak of measles right now.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353800,00.html

 

[c2cd208]

If the state does decide to not let these chidlren return to their parents, and lets all pray they never have to go back to that living h*ll again, what will happen with the children? Will the state place them into foster care with new families or keep them together at some sort of youth ranch or something?

It seems that it may be diffictult to place over 400 children. I know there are tons of children even in my own state that pray daily to be placed with foster families. There is already a huge demand for care for children.

 

[mysteriew]

There's a headline at the Fox News website that there's an outbreak of measles right now.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353800,00.html

This is a problem to be concerned about. Esp. with the number of pregnant girls they have. It can cause problems with any child, but is especially bad for unborn children.

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

German measles can be even worse!

 

[mysteriew]

When was the last time diptheria or polio was in the US? Check out the weekly MMRWR from the CDC first. Measles can be safely treated without the complications, as can all the VADs, including ones that children aren't likely to get here. They CAN blame CPS if something happens because of the vaccines, though it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove it and it would go nowhere, as CPS was, in their mind, acting on the best interests of the children, and no one is held accountable in the vaccine world for damage that supposedly dosn't happen or rarely happens in the first place. And no vaccine is 100% effective in every person...who gets the blame should they get the illness they were vax'ed for? Note, I'm not going to start a debate, nor respond to anyone who wants to try...not the forum for it and I don't debate anyway. It's just very aggrivating to see people taking issue with minor things and slamming them, when really there are bigger issues with these kids then lack of vaccinations and raw milk....especially when there's tons of misinformation and prejudice from the un-educated and ignorant on topics like this. I'm more concerned about treating them for any abuse they may have encountered, not the non-following of mainstream parenting that a lot of people, not just this faction of the FLDS, follow.

Actually I somewhat agree with you. I don't really care that the kids don't have a lot of toys or crayons. I don't care that they don't have TVs. Kids can grow up healthy, strong and well adjusted even without those. Some parents who are not FLDS also choose to parent under these conditions- and do so successfully.

I don't care so much if the kids have had to do chores, even raising a garden or helping to supervise other kids. Kids can grow up healthy and strong even in those conditions- as long as it wasn't taken to excess and as long as they weren't working long hours in commercial ventures. Some kids grow up to be more responsible adults when raised this way. I was born and raised on a farm and helped my parents in the fields at a young age. And I know of a lot of kids who have done the same. But we were all also allowed time to play and to be kids.

Physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse (fear, no bonding, trading parents, no attachments), medical neglect and incest I do think we should be looking at.