FLDS - The Children

[Leila]

Carolyn didn't identify who Merilyn's father was did she? She resembles Warren Jeffs.

The name Merilyn is also the name of Warren Jeff's mother. Presumably she was named after her.

Carolyn Jessop only identified her as Merilyn Jeffs and said she had known her since she was very young. If the age of Merilyn is correct - 32, and considering that Carolyn Jessop was married to Merrill Jessop for 17 years before her escape 5 years ago, Carolyn may have known Merilyn since Merilyn was about 9 or 10 years old.

Carolyn didn't mention any parentage, but Merilyn does look like Warren Jeffs. It's the shape of her face.

 

[mollymalone]

Carolyn Jessop only identified her as Merilyn Jeffs and said she had known her since she was very young. If the age of Merilyn is correct - 32, and considering that Carolyn Jessop was married to Merrill Jessop for 17 years before her escape 5 years ago, Carolyn may have known Merilyn since Merilyn was about 9 or 10 years old.

Carolyn didn't mention any parentage, but Merilyn does look like Warren Jeffs. It's the shape of her face.

Yes, and in certain features.

BTW Annette Barlow Jeffs is Warren Jeff's legal wife, and there's an "Annette" who spoke out in the media and she was "away" when the children were removed, and Annette, WJ's wife gets to see him on visiting days. There's an Annette Jeffs who was listed on the public subpoena. I'm wondering whether they're all the same "Annette" or not. If she is, then some of the children removed probably were his.

 

[Leila]

Yes, and in certain features.

BTW Annette Barlow Jeffs is Warren Jeff's legal wife, and there's an "Annette" who spoke out in the media and she was "away" when the children were removed, and Annette, WJ's wife gets to see him on visiting days. There's an Annette Jeffs who was listed on the public subpoena. I'm wondering whether they're all the same "Annette" or not. If she is, then some of the children removed probably were his.

One article described Annette as having five children of her own and 6 nieces and nephews. If Annette is the Annette that's married to Warren Jeffs, then there's 5 children to begin with.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Perhaps she has been 'reassigned' to a new husband?

I was thinking that, or, that she was born a Jeffs and as she isn't legally married, that is her legal name?

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.star-telegram.com/245/story/620718.html
Arguments that children should not be separated from their mothers simply have no purchase when it is apparent that the mothers are incapable of protecting their children from sexual or other abuse, or unwilling to do so."

"If the already-disseminated knowledge about the FLDS is not enough, there were reports last week alleging an FLDS baby graveyard with 200 graves between the Arizona and Utah compounds. Advocates are telling us that these graves are the result of brutal abuse of young children to obtain their obedience, and probably medical neglect and the genetic deformities that result from generations of inbreeding. Yet many have asserted a violation of due process, as though the authorities are required to be intentionally ignorant about communities within their jurisdiction."

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.star-telegram.com/245/story/620718.html
"FLDS lawyers have been floating to the media and public the bizarre notion that authorities were required to enter the compound with a mental blank slate, as though they knew absolutely nothing about the FLDS. It is a position that defies common sense."

"Authorities in Arizona, Utah and South Dakota, where other FLDS compounds are situated, have made it very clear that they would never follow the Texas authorities' lead of taking all of the children away from obvious danger. Indeed, the Utah attorney general was peeved that Texas would make such a bold move, because it could undermine his increasingly friendly relations with the FLDS in Utah. Arizona's attorney general sent out a news release essentially telling Arizonans not to expect any dramatic rescue of children obviously at high risk of abuse, because Arizona law just does not permit it. The latter has yet to explain precisely why he believes that children at imminent risk of harm cannot be brought to safety in that state. (And if he believes that is the law, surely he should call for a change in it!) In South Dakota, the authorities say they are awaiting some triggering event that will permit them to check on the girls and women.

It really is remarkable: American law enforcement routinely infiltrates criminal organizations in which the issues are drugs and money, but when the issue is widespread child abuse, they "have to" sit on their hands until somehow, some
way one of those on the inside of a cult invites them inside.

 

[mollymalone]

Yesterday I was struck by several different comments I'd heard. One comment was from several of the flds women stressing that their children were "clean and pure." At first I took that to mean that they were uncontaminated by outside all the usual "corrupting influences" of society. But after hearing the other comments, I don't think that anymore.

The other comments I heard were to the effect "Jeffs was trying to create a pure race"; "they don't accept members from outside the church, believing that only their blood is "pure." I posted previously that this smacked of the nazi breeding programs. That their beliefs regarding incest, that it is right and proper in order to achieve this "purity" is chilling. It's merely a euphemism to cloak their crimes against children in catch phrases.

 

[mysteriew]

Yesterday I was struck by several different comments I'd heard. One comment was from several of the flds women stressing that their children were "clean and pure." At first I took that to mean that they were uncontaminated by outside all the usual "corrupting influences" of society. But after hearing the other comments, I don't think that anymore.

The other comments I heard were to the effect "Jeffs was trying to create a pure race"; "they don't accept members from outside the church, believing that only their blood is "pure." I posted previously that this smacked of the nazi breeding programs. That their beliefs regarding incest, that it is right and proper in order to achieve this "purity" is chilling. It's merely a euphemism to cloak their crimes against children in catch phrases.

Good point, they aren't actually referring to their children- they are referring to their children's blood being "clean and pure" ie descended from the prophet.

 

[Leila]

http://www.star-telegram.com/245/story/620718.html
"FLDS lawyers have been floating to the media and public the bizarre notion that authorities were required to enter the compound with a mental blank slate, as though they knew absolutely nothing about the FLDS. It is a position that defies common sense."

"Authorities in Arizona, Utah and South Dakota, where other FLDS compounds are situated, have made it very clear that they would never follow the Texas authorities' lead of taking all of the children away from obvious danger. Indeed, the Utah attorney general was peeved that Texas would make such a bold move, because it could undermine his increasingly friendly relations with the FLDS in Utah. Arizona's attorney general sent out a news release essentially telling Arizonans not to expect any dramatic rescue of children obviously at high risk of abuse, because Arizona law just does not permit it. The latter has yet to explain precisely why he believes that children at imminent risk of harm cannot be brought to safety in that state. (And if he believes that is the law, surely he should call for a change in it!) In South Dakota, the authorities say they are awaiting some triggering event that will permit them to check on the girls and women.

It really is remarkable: American law enforcement routinely infiltrates criminal organizations in which the issues are drugs and money, but when the issue is widespread child abuse, they "have to" sit on their hands until somehow, some
way one of those on the inside of a cult invites them inside.

The authorities in Utah and Arizona have been using the soft approach with the FLDS for years, and it's gotten nowhere. It's only allowed the FLDS to proliferate and allowed for further abuses, and the abuses seem to be getting worse.

 

[Leila]

Yesterday I was struck by several different comments I'd heard. One comment was from several of the flds women stressing that their children were "clean and pure." At first I took that to mean that they were uncontaminated by outside all the usual "corrupting influences" of society. But after hearing the other comments, I don't think that anymore.

The other comments I heard were to the effect "Jeffs was trying to create a pure race"; "they don't accept members from outside the church, believing that only their blood is "pure." I posted previously that this smacked of the nazi breeding programs. That their beliefs regarding incest, that it is right and proper in order to achieve this "purity" is chilling. It's merely a euphemism to cloak their crimes against children in catch phrases.

The concept of creating a "pure race", and the belief that other races - blacks and Jews - were inferior, was a basic belief of Hitler and Nazism. Hitler also sought to exterminate anyone who was handicapped, and performed horrific experiments on them before they died. I see a lot of similarities between the beliefs of Hitler and Warren Jeffs.

 

[mollymalone]

The concept of creating a "pure race", and the belief that other races - blacks and Jews - were inferior, was a basic belief of Hitler and Nazism. Hitler also sought to exterminate anyone who was handicapped, and performed horrific experiments on them before they died. I see a lot of similarities between the beliefs of Hitler and Warren Jeffs.

Warren is reportedly a fan of and fascinated by hitler. It's not too far a stretch for me to believe that he's modeling his twisted practices on hitler's experiments.

 

[SweetPea2]

That goes to show you how much she wants her kids back she lies about her last name & who she is.

Unibrow is 1 of 21 wives & helps house 36 kids.

I wonder if there is any proof anyplace as to how old they actually are? Its easy for the Bishops list to say the wives are 16 / but how old are they really?

Even with birth certificates they could lie about who they are. They're masters at deceit.

Alot of these women go by their maiden names and not the married name so she may not be lying.

 

[yolorado]

The authorities in Utah and Arizona have been using the soft approach with the FLDS for years, and it's gotten nowhere. It's only allowed the FLDS to proliferate and allowed for further abuses, and the abuses seem to be getting worse.

In addition to acting in what the state felt were the best interests of the children at the El Dorado compound, I think that they also intended to fire a big shot across the FLDS's bow. Not in Texas...it ain't happening here. Maybe in Arizona or Utah. Not here. If you want to mess with Texas, get ready to deal with a more prickly entity that you've been used to up until now. Frankly, I'm glad Texas is playing hardball. It's about time someone did.

 

[FlowerChild]

In addition to acting in what the state felt were the best interests of the children at the El Dorado compound, I think that they also intended to fire a big shot across the FLDS's bow. Not in Texas...it ain't happening here. Maybe in Arizona or Utah. Not here. If you want to mess with Texas, get ready to deal with a more prickly entity that you've been used to up until now. Frankly, I'm glad Texas is playing hardball. It's about time someone did.

The Local and State Govt.'s of AZ and UT are FILLED with mainstream LDS members. How many of these "official" speaking out are LDS members? The LDS Church has traditionally tried to ignore the FLDS away - all they ever say is THEY don't allow polygamy - but they don't seem to do much else to discourage the splinter groups like FLDS from practicing it (and the other abusive practices they embrace). Say "WE" don't do it doesn't really have much of an effect on ANYTHING. They won't even engage in a dialog about it.

And the officials have a RELATIONSHIP with the FLDS??? My butt! What good does THAT DO? We have a relationship?? Oh yeah, you lie to us, we believe your lies and go away...some RELATIONSHIP that is! Opening up up communication and "building trust" - oh yeah - we need to build the FLDS's trust in LE and he State Govt - that's important :bang:

Texas isn't going to budge on this - we don't have entire TOWNS where every person is a member of the FLDS and we really do not spend a lot of time worrying what the LDS Church members here might say about the YFZ Raid. These "men" who say they would NEVER do what Texas did mean it - they wouldn't - because the LDS Church and it's members (80% of the population - and they VOTE) would be embarrassed and unhappy to have the LDS Church get some of the FLDS dirt splashed on THEM! The FLDS is very secretive...but so is the LDS - and the two share MANY of the same tenets and practices.

The AZ and UT folks are taking orders from their OWN PROPHET and PRESIDENT - and that (don't dig up any dirt lest some spill on YOU) approach doesn't work in Texas. I never has and it never will. Most of Texas is descended from ancestors who didn't fit the mold to begin with - outlaws, cowboys, madams and mail order brides. We ain't buying what the FLDS is selling - we wanna see the "horse's mouth" before we talk about buying him.

I guess AZ and UT will now welcome back the FLDS members with open arms. They all but said "Move back here and we'll keep ignoring you like always..oh and here's your aid and a subsidy check...because you are now HOMELESS and we must "help" you get back home again.

Somebody should be taking names...really!

My Opinion

 

[mykodiak]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

We ain't buying what the FLDS is selling - we wanna see the "horse's mouth" before we talk about buying him.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Well said.

 

[biggirl]

:clap::clap::clap:

Well said.

I agree with you mykodiak, Flowerchild nailed it. It isn't always pleasant or "sweet" to hear, but some States aren't going to turn a blind eye to the FLDS and allow the abuse to continue. If I were a taxpayer in AZ or UT I would be appalled that some of my hard earned tax money was going to these people that hate and despises the very hand that feeds them. Enough is enough!!! Yea Texas!!!!!!!!:clap::clap:

 

[Pepper]

I'm concerned that some in the media played the sympathy angle on the kids being "wrenched from their mother's arms" and I sure hope it doesn't turn into a big sympathy fest like in the Short Creek raid.

Merril Jessop and others proved that a father with 30+ kids can't be a father, in the sense of one-on-one relationship when he doesn't even know the names and birthdates of most of them. Likewise the mothers who have 10+ kids each with several sister wives with lots of kids cannot bond to those children in a healthy and dedicated way. These children, from the time they are born, are denied the love to which they are entitled anyway, by virtue of their religious beliefs.

I will never believe that very large families of 10+ kids can experience the same degree of bonding as stable families with fewer kids. There just isn't enough of mommy and daddy to go around to make each child feel special and equally loved. The older kids, by necessity, take on the additional task of raising the younger ones. I just believe that the more kids, the less personal is the relationship.

So while the children may be initially upset in the change in their surroundings, I seriously doubt that many of them long for their mother's caress, especially if they don't even know which one is their mother.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm concerned that some in the media played the sympathy angle on the kids being "wrenched from their mother's arms" and I sure hope it doesn't turn into a big sympathy fest like in the Short Creek raid.

Merrill Jessop and others proved that a father with 30+ kids can't be a father, in the sense of one-on-one relationship when he doesn't even know the names and birthdates of most of them. Likewise the mothers who have 10+ kids each with several sister wives with lots of kids cannot bond to those children in a healthy and dedicated way. These children, from the time they are born, are denied the love to which they are entitled anyway, by virtue of their religious beliefs.

I will never believe that very large families of 10+ kids can experience the same degree of bonding as stable families with fewer kids. There just isn't enough of mommy and daddy to go around to make each child feel special and equally loved. The older kids, by necessity, take on the additional task of raising the younger ones. I just believe that the more kids, the less personal is the relationship.

So while the children may be initially upset in the change in their surroundings, I seriously doubt that many of them long for their mother's caress, especially if they don't even know which one is their mother.

I totally disagree. My father was one of 16 children. Of course the older children take on some responsibility for the younger ones. What's wrong with learning responsibility???? If ya ask me...far too many children in small families are raised with NONE and they grow up to be selfish & immature. My fathers side of the family was always extremely close and always there for each other. There isn't enough of those kinds of sibling relationships now in my opinion.

 

[MCDRAW]

Large families get a bad rap now a days. Years ago they were the norm. It's amazing that there wasn't near the crime rate that we have now. I come from a large family....we are all very close. My husband only has one sister and they are not at all close. We live 15 miles from her and they only see each other at Christmas. They never talk to each other. I on the other hand talk to at least one of my siblings every day. I think it has more to do with how you are raised then how many are in your family.

 

[Pepper]

http://helpthechildbrides.com/news/teddybear.htm

Teddy bears, pigtails, 13-year-old girls. . .and Marriage!


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In April, a 13-year-old girl described to a Utah jury the horror of her father marrying her off to a 48 year old man when a prosecutor asked if she could have fabricated having sex with older men.
``There's no way my imagination could make up what I went through,'' she answered, while clutching a teddy bear.

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