FLDS - The Children

[Floh]

I couldn't care less about large families so long as they function in a healthy way supporting all children a part of their family. and can be financially supported by the parents of large families without 'bleeding the beast'. :furious:

but the large families displayed by the FLDS are in no way healthy at all.

IMO.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/showthread.php?t=48360
Fumarase deficiency began to manifest in the community when three sets of Joseph Smith Jessop and Martha Moore Yeates' great-grandchildren married each other..... The children afflicted with fumarase deficiency from these three marriages include the grandchildren of Dan Barlow and his brother, the late Louis Barlow, and Merill Jessop, a top aide to fugitive prophet Warren Jeffs. It is Merill Jessop who is overseeing construction of a massive FLDS temple in Eldorado, Texas, where many believe Prophet Jeffs plans to move his faithful eventually. Dan Barlow, who has been excommunicated from the FLDS, and Merill Jessop could not be reached for comment. But Isaac Wyler, a former FLDS member who was excommunicated from the church last year, says he has firsthand knowledge of multiple fumarase deficiency children in each of the three families. "I know this off the top of my head," Wyler says. "I know these people personally.

 

[mollymalone]

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/
According to a court document..... The document reflects the difficulty Texas is having figuring out the parents of each child. In some instances, two different women are listed as the mother of a child. There also are instances of two different fathers being listed for a child. Some children have an ''unknown father.'' There also are cases of ''unknown mother." Many men listed as fathers do not appear in the Bishop's Record documents, which I guess means they were not living at the YFZ Ranch or had even been exiled from the FLDS sect.

Several names are notable. Here is one: Lloyd Wall, listed as the father of boy. Lloyd Wall also is the father of Elissa Wall, the key witness in Utah's criminal conviction of Warren S. Jeffs, and Becky Musser..."

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/polygamous.htm
In 2005, Flora Jessop and Linda Walker, director of the Child Protection Among the 324 marked graves were 180 of children under the age of eighteen. In addition, there were 58 unmarked graves of babies. Jessop and Walker also list 74 FLDS members who they know have died, but whose headstones are not in the Carling or Babyland cemeteries. Among them are 18 minor children plus eight stillbirths. Some of these children may be in the unmarked graves, they note. Jessop says she saw and heard of many deaths of children while she was growing up in the FLDS towns." (more at link!).........." Her room was next to the sect’s birthing center, which her uncle was in charge of; Jessop says she became aware during that period that many babies died and were buried in the backyard of the birthing center.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/polygamous.htm
She also has seen many children with severe birth defects. Two of her siblings have cleft palates. Another sister was born with dislocated hips. No*thing was done about it until the baby was about 18 months old. Then both of her hips had to be bro*ken, and she was put in a body cast for months. Two defectors claim that some FLDS women pray to have Down’s syndrome children because such children have docile temperaments and be*cause the mothers get $500/month in public assistance for a handicapped child.

They love their children SO much they'll NOT get them proper medical care right away.

 

[Pepper]

http://www.examiner.com/a-1387835~Second_sect_baby_born_in_state_custody.html

SAN ANTONIO (Map, News) - A mother taken from a polygamist sect and being held as a minor in state custody gave birth Monday to a baby boy who was immediately taken into child-protective custody.

State officials acknowledged the mother may be an adult, and said they were trying to determine her true age. Since state officials raided the sect's West Texas ranch on April 3, child welfare officials have taken custody of all its children on the grounds that they were endangered by the sect's underage and polygamous spiritual marriages.

 

[mysteriew]

It does concern me that they may have women in protective custody who are thought to be minors but who are actually adults. Not so much concern for the women as concern for Texas.

If they have a woman in protective custody, if it is eventually determined that she is over 18, what are the legal ramifications?

 

[FlowerChild]

It does concern me that they may have women in protective custody who are thought to be minors but who are actually adults. Not so much concern for the women as concern for Texas.

If they have a woman in protective custody, if it is eventually determined that she is over 18, what are the legal ramifications?

None - the state believes her to be under 18 and pregnant and they err on the side of caution because the girl has no legitimate proof of age....like a LEGITIMATE BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR a LEGITIMATE SOCIAL SECURITY CARD/#.

Since SHE cannot PROVE that she is over 18 the state MUST keep her in custody until her age/ID can be established LEGALLY. The FLDS doesn't believe in filing birth certificates and getting social security numbers for their children (and those children DO grow up). The result is that without any way for CPS to establish this girl's age, if she LOOKS under 18 the burden of proof of age falls on the GIRL. Right now she obviously does not have the necessary documents to establish her identity or age. She is also pregnant and the CPS may have been keeping her in custody to insure she didn't "run" with her "celestial husband" and have the baby in another FLDS stronghold.

There has been no violation of this girl's rights because it is UP TO HER to prove who she is...and she can't because she grew up the the FLDS and likely has NO legal documentation of her age. All a NORMAL person would have to do is give a SS# or show a registered copy of their birth certificate from the state they were born in - this girl obviously has neither. And I DO SUSPECT some of the members DO HAVE fake documents - those might work for a quick "look" but I am sure LE has reviewed the documents presented and found many of them were forgeries or fraudulent.

The mothers of nursing babies are allowed to STAY (if the want) with their babies in a shelter - so even if this girl is over 18, she would probably stay anyway - for her baby. If she IS over 18 and doesn't agree to stay voluntarily then her child would be placed in foster care immediately.

MOST of the issues that have arisen from this raid could have been resolved almost immediately -- IF the FLDS permitted ALL it's members to have a registered Birth Certificate and apply for a Social Security Number. Then the authorities would have had MUCH of the information they needed about maternity and paternity and AGE of the children within a few days. The FLDS is kvetching about "injustices" and "false imprisonment" and it is their own FAULT many of these things are happening.

One minute WE are the bad guys and the next minute they are pleading with the President for help...and they can't even provide a SS# for most of the members? The FLDS talks out whatever side of their mouth is the most manipulative and gathers the most sympathy - but it isn't sincere OR truthful.

My Opinion

 

[mollymalone]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD90L2KV80
"We were presented with credible evidence that this minor is, in fact, an adult," said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.

She declined to say what the evidence was or how old the woman is. According to an FLDS spokesman, the new mother, Pamela Jeffs, is 18.

She was one of two pregnant sect members who state officials had said were minors. The other sect member, who gave birth to a son Monday, also may be an adult, state officials have said.

Both mothers are with their babies, who are in state custody.

 

[MCDRAW]

I couldn't care less about large families so long as they function in a healthy way supporting all children a part of their family. and can be financially supported by the parents of large families without 'bleeding the beast'. :furious:

but the large families displayed by the FLDS are in no way healthy at all.

IMO.

I came from a large family, we knew who our parents were, we knew our age, had birth certificates and social security numbers. So I agree with you, the FLDS do not appear to be healthy.

 

[Fairy1]

The authorities in Utah and Arizona have been using the soft approach with the FLDS for years, and it's gotten nowhere. It's only allowed the FLDS to proliferate and allowed for further abuses, and the abuses seem to be getting worse.

I will bet money that the FLDS members are significant campaign contributors for elected officials in both Utah and Arizona. And, I don't care what they say in the media....LDS/FLDS - the apple did NOT fall far from the tree.

 

[Fairy1]

I live in Las Vegas and the FLDS has been in the news a great deal since Warren Jeffs was on the run. Last night, I saw on the NBC national news broadcast, a couple who claim to be living out of their pick up truck while they attempt to regularly visit their 5 children who are supposedly in foster homes across the entire state of Texas. I couldn't help but wonder where this fellow's other "wives" and children were. More fake tears and feigned hardship. They are spinning, nothing more.

 

[Leila]

It does concern me that they may have women in protective custody who are thought to be minors but who are actually adults. Not so much concern for the women as concern for Texas.

If they have a woman in protective custody, if it is eventually determined that she is over 18, what are the legal ramifications?

I find this concerning too, not only from the legal perspective, but also the negative publicity this will generate.

Earlier today I checked out some newspaper sources and came across this article from the Salt Lake City Tribune. This is a very negative report on the Texas CPS and is generating a lot of commentary on the newspaper's website.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9238520

We all know the terrible conditions the FLDS women and children are subjected to within the FLDS communities. We know the crimes these people have committed. We know these men who've entered into "spiritual marriages" with young underage teenagers, should be charged with rape and suffer the consequences. We know the children deserve better than a life of servitude and fear. But it appears the FLDS have the resources to run a propaganda campaign.

 

[mysteriew]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD90L2KV80
"We were presented with credible evidence that this minor is, in fact, an adult," said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.

She declined to say what the evidence was or how old the woman is. According to an FLDS spokesman, the new mother, Pamela Jeffs, is 18.

She was one of two pregnant sect members who state officials had said were minors. The other sect member, who gave birth to a son Monday, also may be an adult, state officials have said.

Both mothers are with their babies, who are in state custody.

According to that article individual hearings start next week.

 

[yolorado]

I totally disagree. My father was one of 16 children. Of course the older children take on some responsibility for the younger ones. What's wrong with learning responsibility???? If ya ask me...far too many children in small families are raised with NONE and they grow up to be selfish & immature. My fathers side of the family was always extremely close and always there for each other. There isn't enough of those kinds of sibling relationships now in my opinion.

My mom was one of 12. Her dad was a school teacher in a country school when he had younger kids and not only did he know the names of all his own kids but he knew all his students names as well. I think it's just a matter of importance and focus. My mom's family is almost all gone now, but they got along remarably well. As adults, they really never fought about anything. My mom and her just older sister and brother and her just younger brother took care of younger siblings in town during the school year while my grandparents farmed. It apparently worked out well for everyone. The older kids got straight A's in college and med school while helping the younger kids with their homework and housework. The younger kids got a better education in town than they would have on the farm. Everyone became teachers, famers, nurses, doctors, etc.. No one ended up in jail. My surviving aunts consider themselves to have been raised by their older sibs as well as their parents and comment that was a good thing.

 

[cheko1]

On GMA they are stating the FLDS is using there website for propaganda to gain sympathy.

Here are the Children's Daily Schedules.

 

[mykodiak]

On GMA they are stating the FLDS is using there website for propaganda to gain sympathy.

Here are the Children's Daily Schedules.

The FLDS is using whose website? Did GMA sound as if they were against the FLDS doing this...or for it? I know that NBC Evening news AND Dateline are MASSIVELY slanted towards the FLDS.

 

[FlowerChild]

The "Children's Daily Schedule" is a work of fiction - the smiling happy, joy filled children sound like a book from the 50's. The kids get up at 5AM and the food is described in detail. And in THIS fairy tale the mothers and "caretakers (sister wives?) are always smiling and gentle and sweet. Older children drive (without a license?) and have "computer time" (where are these computers?) and the boys and girls have similar activities - I betcha the BOYS never do housework or prepare dinner...
Oh, and they FAIL TO SAY that the kids stop school at 8th grade - the "High School" part is a BIG LIE we know girls are married at 14-15-16 and the boys are working (or GONE).

Some Excerpts
General Guidelines for FLDS Children Ages 0-2 Years
-We strive tobe ahead of the children’s needs so they do not have to cry before they get their food, or before their diaper is changed. Our lives are centered around our children and our joy is to take care of them.
-Suggested Activities: Children who are just learning to walk love to help wash doorknobs,benches, cupboards, etc. Blocks, (too big to swallow), puzzles that have true pictures, alphabet magnets, etc., are used in the child’s development. Digging in the dirt with a small shovel, jumping on a re-bounder, pushing a wagon, planting seeds, folding washcloths, etc., are things the children can do to grow up healthy and strong.
-Prayer Times and Religious Training: Children of this age are gently encouraged to kneel up for prayer, fold their arms, close their eyes, etc.

A General Daily Schedule for FLDS Children Ages 2-6 Years
-6:00 am Family Prayer Time: Children are gathered together, sing and pray, then read a sermon of Leroy S. Johnson, (usually 20 to 30 minutes.
-7:30 am 10:00 am: General Activities: Children who do not go to school have a variety of jobs they do throughout the morning hours. They may do household chores, such as: clean bathrooms, dust furniture, sweep floors, wash and fold laundry, wash doorknobs and straighten bookshelves, etc., or they may do outside activities, such as: weeding flower gardens, watering gardens, sweeping sidewalks, building stools, picking up trash, etc. A mother is always nearby.The mothers are very patient and understanding, giving the children room to learn and grow. Mothers strive to explain each situation as clearly as possible to the children, and the children feeling the love in the mothers tone of voice, her actions, and smiles love to respond. Young children do not have a long attention span so mothers gently guide them from job to job, activity to activity, so that the children do not grow bored but are sweet and happy
-1:00 -- 3:00 pm General Activities: Consistent, sweet mothers will be thinking ahead.Children will have certain activities assigned to them to do each day, such as: practice the piano or violin, sewing, knitting, wood working, building skills, etc.
-3:00 -- 4:00 pm Preschool: It is very important to FLDS parents that their children be well educated in the necessary skills needed to make a living and become a useful people.
-Mothers do not just dump out toys and leave the children to play. The children are taught activities that enlarge their horizons. Children become very selfish, self-centered and irritable when they play with toys all day.
-Our motives are to raise our children to be honest, true, chaste and benevolent, God-fearing, American citizens.
-5:00 pm Dinner Time: Busy, healthy children are very hungry, come dinner time. Mashed potatoes with butter, salt, and sour cream; tender turkey cooked just right; and flaky rolls with jam; topped off with delicious pumpkin pie brings smiles from hungry children! Yet, its not just the food that brings smiles, it is the kind hands and friendly smiles of mothers and caretakers that make the children feel comfortable and happy.
-5:30 pm Clean Up: Because mothers and caretakers are sweet and gentle, the children are happy to help with the meal clean up, and nightly straightening of their homes.

A General Daily Schedule for FLDS Children 1st - 3rd Grades
-Because our children have been protected from the great evils of the world and are taught to be busy and industrious, they act mature for their age. School age children are capable of taking on more responsibilities, and as children are, they are anxious to grow up and be like the “big guys”.
-5:00 am Early Morning Duties: Children arise early, say private prayers, dress, comb hair, make beds, etc. Sisters give sisters hugs, brothers give brothers a handshake, and all say “Good Morning”.
-6:00 am Family Prayer Time: Mothers, caretakers, and children gather to sing, pray, and read a sermon of President Leroy S. Johnson. Older children are encouraged to sit properly and quietly, and to be good examples to younger children. The class lasts 15-30 minutes.
-7:30 am Morning Class: Children who are in 1st through 3rd grades usually sit in their classrooms and listen to the Morning Class, which is a religious training. The training begins with song and prayer, then the principal of the school speaks, or calls on others to bear testimony.
-11:45 am Lunch Time / Family Time: School children are let out of school at 11:45 in the morning so that they can make it to their homes for lunch prayer. It is very important that the families have their family times together. Preschoolers wait by the windows to watch older brothers
and sister come skipping home for lunch. “What did you do in school this morning?” younger brothers and sisters ask. School children rattle off the exciting things their class has been doing, while they quickly gobble down their lunch. Mothers stand by and smile, happy that their children
enjoy life and pray to be good mothers to them always.
-12:45 – 2:45 pm Back to School: “Mother, please walk with me to school before I’m late. I want to go early before my teacher gets there so I can surprise her.” This is commonly heard in the homes of the FLDS. It is true, FLDS children are not perfect, yet they are teachable, and mothers delight in the privilege to raise up their children in light and truth.
-Students in 1 st through 3rd grades are given recess times and often extra outside time, because they are full of energy. Instead of just playing with toys, or spending time on the streets, the children are taught to use their time wisely. Weeding the garden, cracking nuts, reading true stories, feeding the chickens, visiting the grandmothers, helping with community projects, etc., are some of the things the children do during their recess times.
-Mothers chat with their children about the daily happenings, and children confide in their mothers the successes and challenges they have. Mothers listen with understanding hearts,and turn the children to prayer and obedience to the laws of God.
-4:00 – 5:00 pm Something to Bless Others: Depending on the age group and the homework load, the children are encouraged to help out with the housework and family duties.
-6:00 pm Stories and Family Training: Our children are not told fables, fairy tales,or other untrue stories. Mothers read the Bible and Book of Mormon stories, then simplify it so the children can understand.
School age children are also given more detailed training on our religious beliefs. They are taught scripture memorizations and read Church literature.
- 7:00 pm Family Prayer Time: Children gather with the family to join in song and prayer before retiring. Saying “good- night” to grandmothers, mothers, brothers and sisters is a delightful time for the children. They seldom have bad or frightful dreams, just sweet dreams of a happy family living together.

A General Daily Schedule for FLDS Children 4th grade – Highschool
- 7:30 am Morning Class: Breathless, smiling children file into the schoolhouse about ten minutes before starting time. They are anxious to learn, and greet their teachers and friends with cheerful a “hello”. Morning Class is a 45 minute to one hour long religious class. After a song and prayer, the school principal takes charge and calls on teachers, guests, or children to stand up and bear testimony of what they believe. Freedom of speech is honored in our society.
-School children from 4th to 12th grades are separated into boys classes and girls classes.
-7th to 12th grade students are often used to help with the younger grades. Every day is filled with exciting, new, character-building experiences.
-4:00 – 5:00 pm Family Duties/Personal Projects: Children have ideas and dreams as well as adults. There is time in the bustle of the day for the children to work on their personal projects such as sewing, painting, journal writing, trying out new cooking recipes, visiting, computer work, building projects, etc. Boys and girls of age like to drive
-5:00 pm Dinner Time: Many of the older children help with the cooking in the home, and often decide the menu, etc. The children are taught to live by the Word of Wisdom as revealed by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

 

[faw720]

I know that NBC Evening news AND Dateline are MASSIVELY slanted towards the FLDS.

This morning the Today Show had an interview with the mom who gave birth this past Monday. She was talking in that little girl whiney voice that so many of the women use. She said that CPS finally acknowledges that she is 22 years old & is free to leave. She says she cannot leave as CPS is going to keep the baby & she refuses to leave her baby.

 

[cheko1]

The FLDS is using whose website? Did GMA sound as if they were against the FLDS doing this...or for it? I know that NBC Evening news AND Dateline are MASSIVELY slanted towards the FLDS.

The Flds is using their own website to put out propoganda so people will feel sorry for them.

I thought GMA was NOT slanted towards the FLDS they brought up the fact they had been charged with sexual child abuse & child abuse.