Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[Dotta]

Theoretically, there is a lucky and unlucky seat in every accident. Also, Ramesh's own presence of mind and reaction time seem to be discounted by assigning all luck to the seat alone.

Exactly!

There was a test analyzing a dozen or so different accidents that occurred over a 15-year period.

"The analysis showed that the greatest chances of surviving an air crash
are for seats located at the back of the plane.
In their case,
the mortality rate in the study was 32 percent.

In the case of seats at the front of the plane, it was 38 percent,

and in its middle section 39 percent.

Analysis also shows that statistically,
passengers in the middle seats,
not those by the window or the aisle, survived the crashes most often."

It must be emphasized, however, that

"many factors influence how safe a given seat ultimately turns out to be,
including, above all,
the circumstances of the accident."

Które miejsca w samolocie są najbezpieczniejsze? Zbadano to

Latanie od lat pozostaje najbezpieczniejszą formą transportu. Zdarzające się katastrofy lotnicze sprawiają jednak, że mimo to budzi ono obawy niektórych pasażerów. Czy w razie wypadku są w samolocie bardziej i mniej bezpieczne miejsca? Analiza wypadków z przeszłości wskazuje, że tak.

tvn24.pl

BBM

 

[Dotta]

"Regulator asks Air India for training data on pilots and dispatcher of crashed plane.​

India's aviation regulator, the DGCA,
has requested detailed training records for the pilots and dispatcher of the Air India Dreamliner that crashed last week, killing more than 270 people.

The move is part of a broader investigation into the tragedy,
led by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB).

The DGCA also asked flying schools nationwide
to carry out compliance checks on safety procedures, training, and coordination,
and told airports
to hold full-scale emergency drills by 30 June.

While no specific concerns have been raised about Air India's operations yet,
the requests are standard post-crash procedures."

Air India latest: Airline says one engine was new; damaged black box to be sent to US

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

 

[CriLondon]

"Regulator asks Air India for training data on pilots and dispatcher of crashed plane.​

India's aviation regulator, the DGCA,
has requested detailed training records for the pilots and dispatcher of the Air India Dreamliner that crashed last week, killing more than 270 people.

The move is part of a broader investigation into the tragedy,
led by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB).

The DGCA also asked flying schools nationwide
to carry out compliance checks on safety procedures, training, and coordination,
and told airports
to hold full-scale emergency drills by 30 June.

While no specific concerns have been raised about Air India's operations yet,
the requests are standard post-crash procedures."

Air India latest: Airline says one engine was new; damaged black box to be sent to US

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

I have to prefix this with JMO , but Air India operate with a CLC ( Centralized Load Control ) policy , whereby a dispatcher operates remotely and releases the Loadsheet via ACARS once the load has been distributed and confirmed by a Ramp Agent or Turnaround Coordinator at the aircraft .
So the investigation will have to probe in bith directions .
I am not a fan of this procedure as it enhances the risk of mistakes ( more than one operator ) but these are the times we live in (I'm old school!) And they are definitely NOT the only airline doing this.

 

[emirates1957]

I believe it was noted as early as Day 2 that the RAT appeared to be active and that the surviving passenger had heard what was likely to be that activating before impact.

How would he know that Thinker?

 

[Dotta]

"Air India pays poignant tribute ​

to ‘cherished’ cabin crew killed in 787-8 crash.​

'With hearts full of sorrow,
we remember the cabin crew members we lost –
beloved colleagues,
cherished friends,
and the soul of every journey they were a part of.

Their grace, warmth, and unwavering care touched thousands of lives in the skies and on the ground.

To passengers, they were calm and comforting faces',
the tribute read.

The airline added:

'To us,
they were family.

Senior leaders from the Tata Group and Air India
continue to stand beside their families and loved ones –
to honor their memory,
share in their grief,
and offer quiet strength in a moment that words cannot ease.

Their kindness, spirit, and dedication
will forever remain a part of who we are'.”

Air India pays poignant tribute to ‘cherished’ cabin crew killed in 787-8 crash – AeroTime

www-aerotime-aero.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Dotta]

"India to decide ​

on overseas analysis of Air India crash flight recorders.​

India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB)
is yet to decide
whether flight data and cockpit voice recorders from the Air India flight that crashed last Thursday
will be sent overseas for decoding and analysis."

Air India crash: India to decide on overseas analysis of flight recorders - BBC News

Media reports in India have suggested that the flight's recorders will be sent overseas for analysis.

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Air India plane crash: Location for decoding black box data of Boeing 787 Dreamliner yet to be decided, says Civil Aviation Ministry - Times of India

Following the Air India Ahmedabad Dreamliner crash that tragically killed approximately 270 people, the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has launched a thorough investigation.

timesofindia-indiatimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[emirates1957]

"Air India says ​

one engine on crashed plane was new.​

View attachment 596410

One of the engines of the Air India plane that crashed last week was new,
while the other was not due for servicing until December,
the airline's chairman has said.

In an interview with an Indian news channel,
N Chandrasekaran said that both engines of the aircraft had 'clean' histories.

'The right engine was a new engine put in March 2025.
The left engine was last serviced in 2023
and due for its next maintenance check in December 2025,'
he told Times Now channel."

Air India crash: N Chandrasekaran says one engine on plane was new - BBC News

The plane that crashed last week had a "clean" engine history, the airline's chairman told a TV channel.

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

There is no way that 1 X engine would be checked in 2023 and the other in 2025 impossible….like your front car tyres checked and the other later several years later. No such word as “clean histories”.

 

[Spectrix]

I believe it was noted as early as Day 2 that the RAT appeared to be active and that the surviving passenger had heard what was likely to be that activating before impact.

How would he know that Thinker?

The survivor reported hearing a bang, some suggest that noise may have been the Ram Air Turbine dropping and being locked into place. Some of them are spring loaded and can make quite a noise when they are deployed.

 

[GraceG]

I believe one records flight data and the other records cockpit voices

Normally they are separate devices. But the 787 may have had the EAFR (Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder (one unit). The EAFR as a design has the capability to record datalink messages and cockpit imagery but don't know if Air India's had this ability.

I have personally accompanied one (a single CVR) on a flight to the NTSB lab at L'Enfant Plaza (they aren't that large but they are HEAVY - and they're not black, they're orange, not sure where the term "black box" term came from). The CVR detects from different sources and will also note unclear words, and unknown sources. For example, the CFR transcript for the Air France Concorde crash listed as sources of the transcript as follows:
CAM-1= Voice identified as Captain
CAM-2= Voice identified as First Officer
CAM-3 = Voice identified as Engineer
RDO- = Radio transmission
CTL = Charles de Gaulle Control
ARFF = Fire brigade
VHF-? = Unknown source from radio
(*)= Unclear words
>> = English translation

 

[indicolite22]

I'm sure the crew don't need passengers misbehaving at this time as well:

Dr Mohanbhai allegedly demanded that cabin crew carry her hand baggage, which she had left in the front row, to her designated seat at 20F.

The situation quickly deteriorated when she is said to have shouted alarming statements, including a threat to bring down the aircraft. The cabin crew promptly informed the pilot, who attempted to de-escalate the matter. However, the passenger allegedly continued to behave disruptively, leading to her removal from the plane before take-off.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/doctor-removed-from-air-india-flight-at-bengaluru-over-threats-to-bring-down-plane-report-101750383501590.html

There's a video of the altercation:

Moment woman threatens to CRASH Air India plane mid-flight days after disaster

THIS is the shocking moment a woman allegedly threatened to crash a plane in India during a row with cabin staff. The incident comes just days after the tragic Ahmedabad disaster, in which at least…

www.the-sun.com

I was about to comment that there is a lot of shouting but then the woman (a doctor) starts hitting a fellow passenger for no apparent reason. People like this should be banned from flying.

 

[indicolite22]

Sacked crew blame Air India, DGCA for ignoring safety warnings before AI-171 crash; seek PM’s help - Meghalaya Times

New Delhi: In a dramatic turn following the tragic Air India Flight AI-171 crash in Ahmedabad on June 12, two former senior cabin crew members wrote to

meghalayatimes.in

Two Air India flight attendants were fired after refusing to change their testimony about the 2024 incident involving the Dreamliner VT-ANQ in which an emergency slide inadvertently deployed on the ground in London. They claim a door malfunctioned, while the airline is blaming the crew's actions.

According to the letter, the door’s slide raft had deployed on landing in London without manual input, a claim initially supported by the pilot and crew.

 

[Dotta]

and they're not black, they're orange, not sure where the term "black box" term came from).

The answer to this question is simple....

Tradition!

The term "black box"
comes from the time
when the first flight data recorders had dark housings.

"The first 'black boxes' appeared in the 1950s,
just after jet airliners took off.

The first one, the Comet,
naturally had its fair share of technical problems—
five serious failures were reported in two years.

So there was a need to start collecting flight data somehow.
That way, it could be learned
under what conditions the plane would start having problems."

More...
From my country's MSM I already sent here once:

"It is important that both boxes are tightly closed.
Pilots cannot interfere with them,
they cannot open them or turn them off -
they operate continuously during the flight.

However,
it rarely happens that "black boxes" are opened after the flight.
This is done primarily when a serious failure occurs.

The box can withstand an overload of up to 3400 G
and temperature of 1100 degrees Celsius.

There is no need to even mention immersion in water.

What's more -
even deep underwater,
such box sends a radio signal
so that it can be found."

Czarne skrzynki... nie są czarne. Ich zawartość też może zaskakiwać

Wielu osobom czarne skrzynki kojarzą się z tajemniczymi, nieoznaczonymi kuframi z sekretną wiedzą w środku. Okazuje się, że nie tylko nie są tajemnicze, ale też dobrze oznaczone. Przynajmniej wiedza pozostaje sekretna – aby się do niej dostać, trzeba przedrzeć się przez bardzo gruby materiał.

www.komputerswiat.pl

 

[Spectrix]

There's a video of the altercation:

Moment woman threatens to CRASH Air India plane mid-flight days after disaster

THIS is the shocking moment a woman allegedly threatened to crash a plane in India during a row with cabin staff. The incident comes just days after the tragic Ahmedabad disaster, in which at least…

www.the-sun.com

I was about to comment that there is a lot of shouting but then the woman (a doctor) starts hitting a fellow passenger for no apparent reason. People like this should be banned from flying.

Whoa! Those crazy eyes, that woman is terrifying.

 

[indicolite22]

There is no way that 1 X engine would be checked in 2023 and the other in 2025 impossible….like your front car tyres checked and the other later several years later. No such word as “clean histories”.

They are referring to the C-check in 2022 and engine replacement/inspection in 2025:

Sources said the VT-ANB 787-8 Dreamliner that was operating flight AI171 underwent a major maintenance check (C check) in June 2022 and was due for its next check in December 2025. The right-hand engine returned from the shop, overhauled, and installed in March 2025, while the left-hand engine was inspected as per the manufacturer’s protocol in April 2025.

Crashed AI171 had recent engine checks, no faults reported, says Air India sources - CNBC TV18

Sources said the VT-ANB 787-8 Dreamliner that was operating flight AI171 underwent a major maintenance check (C check) in June 2022 and was due for its next check in December 2025. The right-hand engine returned from the shop, overhauled, and installed in March 2025, while the left-hand engine...

www.cnbctv18.com

Google AI:

In aviation, a C-check is a comprehensive and extensive maintenance inspection of an aircraft, typically performed every 18-24 months or after a specific number of flight hours. It involves a thorough examination of the aircraft's structure, systems, and components, requiring the aircraft to be temporarily taken out of service for a period of one to four weeks.

 

[LadyL]

Whoa! Those crazy eyes, that woman is terrifying.

it's so over the top it makes me think it was staged - it doesn't even look like a real airplane interior

 

[CriLondon]

Air India warned by watchdog over pilot scheduling breaches

Flights on 16 May and 17 May exceeded the allowed pilot flight time limit of 10 hours, according to the report.

news.sky.com

Crew apparently exceeding flying hours , this is very likely due to operating a 2 flight deck therefore no relief during flight.

P.S. edited to add that this is probably an issue due to longer flights as Pakistani airspace is not usable for AI flights currently

 

[thinker47]

How would he know that Thinker?

Sorry emirates1957... I can't remember where I read it. It was in a post here from MSM, where I think a so-called expert was discussing what the survivor had said and he (survivor) said he'd heard a bang and it was around the time that people started to notice the RAT in the video and the 'expert' speculated that the bang might have been the RAT deploying.

 

[thinker47]

Air India warned by watchdog over pilot scheduling breaches

Flights on 16 May and 17 May exceeded the allowed pilot flight time limit of 10 hours, according to the report.

news.sky.com

Crew apparently exceeding flying hours , this is very likely due to operating a 2 flight deck therefore no relief during flight.

P.S. edited to add that this is probably an issue due to longer flights as Pakistani airspace is not usable for AI flights currently

I'm confused because the flight time from Bengaluru to London is 10hrs 50... then you have the pre- and post-flight etc to add to that. So that wouldn't be an extended flight time but would have had to be rostering crew who already didn't have the available flying hours left.

 

[GraceG]

I'm confused because the flight time from Bengaluru to London is 10hrs 50... then you have the pre- and post-flight etc to add to that. So that wouldn't be an extended flight time but would have had to be rostering crew who already didn't have the available flying hours left.

Pre and Post Flight duties aren't included in flight time limitations, at least not in the US. Flight time starts when the airplane moves under power (as noted in ACRS) and ends when the plane comes back in.to "rest". I remember short (reduced rest) overnights where by the time we got our post flight duties done, and waited for the hotel van, it would be 2 hours before we got to the hotel but that 2 hours was considered our allowed "rest" time because our duty ended when we left the plane. (THAT reg has been amended thank goodness, too many nights over the years flying on 4 hours of sleep).

 

[CriLondon]

I'm confused because the flight time from Bengaluru to London is 10hrs 50... then you have the pre- and post-flight etc to add to that. So that wouldn't be an extended flight time but would have had to be rostering crew who already didn't have the available flying hours left.

Again I have to prefix with JMO , but crew hours start from hotel pick up (in case of overnight ) so you can easily see how the problems would occur . In any case the issue revolves around , again IMO , operating a 2 crew in the flight deck . There's no relief during the flight so their hours work as continuous .
Some airlines , on such route , operate at least 3 flight deck crew so they can rotate during the actual flight .
Actual flight time has an impact , but crew hours don't get calculated with flight time only (as in NOT from takeoff to landing )