Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[thinker47]

Pre and Post Flight duties aren't included in flight time limitations, at least not in the US. Flight time starts when the airplane moves under power (as noted in ACRS) and ends when the plane comes back in.to "rest". I remember short (reduced rest) overnights where by the time we got our post flight duties done, and waited for the hotel van, it would be 2 hours before we got to the hotel but that 2 hours was considered our allowed "rest" time because our duty ended when we left the plane. (THAT reg has been amended thank goodness, too many nights over the years flying on 4 hours of sleep).

Thanks for explaining - but wouldn't that also apply to the scheduled flight time, so that still takes the flying period over the 10 hours. (The CAA differentiates between flying hours and duty hours - maybe that's what confused me )

 

[thinker47]

Again I have to prefix with JMO , but crew hours start from hotel pick up (in case of overnight ) so you can easily see how the problems would occur . In any case the issue revolves around , again IMO , operating a 2 crew in the flight deck . There's no relief during the flight so their hours work as continuous .
Some airlines , on such route , operate at least 3 flight deck crew so they can rotate during the actual flight .
Actual flight time has an impact , but crew hours don't get calculated with flight time only (as in NOT from takeoff to landing )

No, that was my point (although I may very well be wrong!)... that if the actual scheduled flight time is, as I gather, 10hrs 50, then the crew are already rostered over their hours before they even leave home.

 

[indicolite22]

AI171 crash debris removal mishap in Ahmedabad: Plane tail gets stuck in tree near ACB office, road closed briefly - Ahmedabad News

A strange incident occurred in Ahmedabad during the removal of the AI171 plane crash debris. A truck carrying the aircraft’s tail section got stuck in a tree near the ACB office at Shahibaug Dafnala, creating a brief roadblock. | A strange incident occurred in Ahmedabad during the removal of the...

www.bhaskarenglish.in

Also from the article:

During the earlier debris clearance at the crash site, a shocking discovery was made inside the tail of the aircraft. The body of an air hostess was found trapped in the wreckage.

 

[emirates1957]

I'm sure the crew don't need passengers misbehaving at this time as well:

Dr Mohanbhai allegedly demanded that cabin crew carry her hand baggage, which she had left in the front row, to her designated seat at 20F.

The situation quickly deteriorated when she is said to have shouted alarming statements, including a threat to bring down the aircraft. The cabin crew promptly informed the pilot, who attempted to de-escalate the matter. However, the passenger allegedly continued to behave disruptively, leading to her removal from the plane before take-off.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/bengaluru-news/doctor-removed-from-air-india-flight-at-bengaluru-over-threats-to-bring-down-plane-report-101750383501590.html

Your spot on the point is when a passenger is non compliant, the last thing you need is having that pax on your flight for hours. Best to have them removed on the ground rather than divert. Sometimes professional folk don’t like being told what to do !!! ….. until there is an emergency, have witnessed same numerous times.

 

[emirates1957]

"Regulator asks Air India for training data on pilots and dispatcher of crashed plane.​

India's aviation regulator, the DGCA,
has requested detailed training records for the pilots and dispatcher of the Air India Dreamliner that crashed last week, killing more than 270 people.

The move is part of a broader investigation into the tragedy,
led by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB).

The DGCA also asked flying schools nationwide
to carry out compliance checks on safety procedures, training, and coordination,
and told airports
to hold full-scale emergency drills by 30 June.

While no specific concerns have been raised about Air India's operations yet,
the requests are standard post-crash procedures."

Air India latest: Airline says one engine was new; damaged black box to be sent to US

Indian aviation regulator finds no major safety flaws in Air India Dreamliners but flags maintenance and coordination issues

www.independent.co.uk

Thanks Dotta I was wondering who they were. Here in Australia we have CASA….Civil Aviation Safety Authority. Aircraft/Airline would be shutdown immediately due non compliance.

 

[emirates1957]

Sorry emirates1957... I can't remember where I read it. It was in a post here from MSM, where I think a so-called expert was discussing what the survivor had said and he (survivor) said he'd heard a bang and it was around the time that people started to notice the RAT in the video and the 'expert' speculated that the bang might have been the RAT deploying.

Many thanks Thinker - had no idea about the RAT device. However I might have some mice in the garage and that’s about as far as it goes !!!

 

[emirates1957]

I'm confused because the flight time from Bengaluru to London is 10hrs 50... then you have the pre- and post-flight etc to add to that. So that wouldn't be an extended flight time but would have had to be rostering crew who already didn't have the available flying hours left.

Yes, yes and yes,

 

[emirates1957]

Pre and Post Flight duties aren't included in flight time limitations, at least not in the US. Flight time starts when the airplane moves under power (as noted in ACRS) and ends when the plane comes back in.to "rest". I remember short (reduced rest) overnights where by the time we got our post flight duties done, and waited for the hotel van, it would be 2 hours before we got to the hotel but that 2 hours was considered our allowed "rest" time because our duty ended when we left the plane. (THAT reg has been amended thank goodness, too many nights over the years flying on 4 hours of sleep).

Thanks GraceG…..ours was sign on to sign off. We had several U.S. Pilot’s whom I might say were bloody brilliant. Hard working and extremely competent. How do you make rational decisions on 4 hours sleep, thank goodness for the amendment.

 

[indicolite22]

it's so over the top it makes me think it was staged - it doesn't even look like a real airplane interior

You were right! Apparently the incident with the passenger was real, but the video is unrelated. One of the clues: the unruly passenger was 36 and the woman in the video looks older.

From the source below:
The viral video does not depict a real incident. It is scripted and was originally posted by Fly-High Institute, Nagpur, as part of a training demonstration.

A scripted video is falsely being shared as a real incident of passengers fighting over seat 11A on a flight - FACTLY

A scripted video is falsely being shared as a real incident of passengers fighting over seat 11A on a flight.

factly.in

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks for explaining - but wouldn't that also apply to the scheduled flight time, so that still takes the flying period over the 10 hours. (The CAA differentiates between flying hours and duty hours - maybe that's what confused me )

One personal observation, having traveled to India from the US PNW in November of 2024. Our flight was not direct, but perhaps it applies to most flights to/from India now.

To Istanbul: flight was longer than usual because we basically flew over Western Poland and Romania (bypassing one major conflict in Europe).

From Istanbul to Mumbai: two hours longer than usual because of the ME conflicts.

Now, looking at the flight from Ahmedabad to London (and assuming that we are talking about June of 2025), I think that safety consideration made the flight longer than it used to be.

Conflicts create changes in schedules. Knowing that air travel industry might be in lack of trained experienced pilots post-Covid, adding two more hours of flight might put such direct flights on the cusp of “maximum allowed in-air time for pilots”, or even over it. A few months is a very short time to adjust for the industry. (And, I wouldn’t blame them, tbh). Just look at the map of the regular flight. I don’t know how it looks now.

 

[LadyL]

You were right! Apparently the incident with the passenger was real, but the video is unrelated. One of the clues: the unruly passenger was 36 and the woman in the video looks older.

From the source below:
The viral video does not depict a real incident. It is scripted and was originally posted by Fly-High Institute, Nagpur, as part of a training demonstration.

A scripted video is falsely being shared as a real incident of passengers fighting over seat 11A on a flight - FACTLY

A scripted video is falsely being shared as a real incident of passengers fighting over seat 11A on a flight.

factly.in

ok yeah her crazy eyes were just a bit too crazy lol

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I just checked in for our holiday next month and one of my kids got randomly allocated seat 11A on the way out and the other kid got 11A on the way back. What are the chances!!

 

[thinker47]

I just checked in for our holiday next month and one of my kids got randomly allocated seat 11A on the way out and the other kid got 11A on the way back. What are the chances!!

Most airlines won't allow children in the exit rows, in case participation is needed in an emergency. Just saying...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Most airlines won't allow children in the exit rows, in case participation is needed in an emergency. Just saying...

It’s not an exit row on our flight, it’s a window seat

 

[Dotta]

"Authorities identify all ​

but one of 260 victims of Air India plane crash.​

The death count was below the authorities' earlier estimate of 270
but officials remained cautious on the final toll.

'We have identified 259 victims.
They include 240 passengers
and 19 non-passengers.
<modsnip: copyright>

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/authorities-identify-all-one-260-victims-air-india-plane-crash-2025-06-24/

 

[Dotta]

"Black Box Of Crashed Air India Plane In India Being Examined.​

Civil Aviation Minister
K Rammohan Naidu on Tuesday said
the black box of the Air India plane,
which crashed in Ahmedabad earlier this month,
was being examined by
the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau,
and dismissed speculation
that it would be sent abroad for an inquiry.

'The black box is very much in India,
and it is currently being investigated
by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB)'."

Black Box Of Crashed Air India Plane In India, Being Examined: Minister

The London-bound Air India plane crashed into a hostel complex in Ahmedabad moments after taking off from the Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport on June 12.

www.ndtv.com

"All a speculation': ​

Black box of crashed AI plane not sent abroad, says Naidu; ​

currently with AIIB.​

When asked about the timeline for retrieving the black box data,
Naidu said it was a technical matter and that the bureau is following proper procedures.

'Let the AAIB conduct the probe and go through the entire process',
he added."

'All a speculation': Black box of crashed AI plane not sent abroad, says Naidu; currently with AIIB - Times of India

Civil Aviation Minister K Rammohan Naidu refuted media reports claiming the Air India Ahmedabad crash black box was sent abroad. He confirmed the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) is analyzing it in India. The London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner crashed on June 12, killing 241, and...

timesofindia-indiatimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Officer Dibble]

I wish I could "freeze frame and copy" a picture from a video. But, V Ramesh the lone survivor of
the crash did not have any flip flops or shoes on as he walked away from the crash. He had a dark
sock on his right foot and his left foot was bare. (I know it was confusing when I first viewed the
tapes.) But it makes sense if he was thrown from the wreckage, where the plane broke in half, still strapped in his seat and "I think" his cell phone would have been in his back pocket, not damaged and easily accessed.
Adding a link to a short video and WS'ers can see his feet and he also has a slight limp.
***This poor man has gone through so much. And, will eventually have to get back home to England? I can't even imagine going to an airport again.

Only this man walked away from fiery Air India plane crash: 'I have no idea how I exited the plane'

'There were bodies all around me. I was scared. I stood up and ran. There were pieces of plane all around me,' Vishwash Kumar Ramesh said.

nationalpost.com

That is really interesting as I saw the lines where a red coloured flip flop was (or would be). I have terrible eyesight though so you are probably correct.

 

[Officer Dibble]

where did you see that?

It has been many days since but iirc I think it was on the video of him walking out from the area alone

 

[IQuestion]

Some people may wonder about the "black box/boxes" who , what & where it is examined. I learned the following info about US manufactured planes involved in international accidents. (I was researching how the investigators worked the investigation into LAPA 3142. Fascinating. and tragic.) From AI generated info:
When a plane manufactured in the United States crashes, investigators from the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) are indeed frequently involved in the process, especially when it comes to the "black box" (flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder). The NTSB is the primary agency responsible for investigating civil aviation accidents in the US, and they are often invited to participate in investigations of US-built aircraft accidents that occur internationally. While the country where the crash occurs leads the investigation, the NTSB's expertise is highly valued, and they may be involved in analyzing the black box data, regardless of the accident's location.

PS... This info is known to the pros...but a lot of us are not in that industry.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I just want to bring up something about the survivor. I get the feeling there's some skepticism about him being relatively unharmed when the crash was so horrible and the death toll so high, both here and on other websites.

Sometimes things just line up like that. We've all heard the stories of the house fire that consumed everything down to the foundation, yet a bible is found in the ashes that's only lightly charred. Every once in awhile, there's a pocket that escapes the havoc and if you happen to be tucked into that pocket, well, good for you.

Remember on 9/11, the waving woman? She didn't even appear injured. My theory is that she had bent down for something against or near the side of the tower that was initially penetrated by the nose of the plane, and all the debris and devastation flew right over her and somehow missed her. She was in the pocket that morning.
Sometimes the holes in the Swiss cheese line up perfectly and a person or item slips through.

The poor guy is having a hard enough time without adding unfounded skepticism to the weight. He's already suffering greatly from survivor's guilt, I hope he can get the help he needs.

I would like to point out, that I pointed out when mentioning his feet, that I believe him but was confused by his footwear situation, given the circumstances. Please don't put me in the box of skepticism. Thank you. JMO MOO