Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[Spectrix]

If there is an urgent issue, I hope they aren't waiting for months to address it.

As Boeing is a US company, the NTSB are involved. There will be a preliminary report within four weeks from the date of the accident.

 

[Skigh]

Air India investigators probing whether crash that killed 260 was sabotage

INVESTIGATORS are probing whether the Air India crash which killed 260 people was caused by sabotage. A total of 52 Brits died when the Boeing 787 Dreamliner slammed into a medical college after bo…

www.thesun.co.uk

India’s Minister of State for Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol said: “The Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has begun a full investigation. It is being probed from all angles, including any possible sabotage.”

Although there has previously been speculation of potential sabotage, this is the first time officials have formally acknowledged it as a possible cause of the crash.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Both engines shut down at exactly the same time. An interesting problem to solve.

Maybe there was an electrical issue that stopped the fuel pumps could be an explanation. Also explains the deployment of the Ram air turbine.

Computer glitch is another possibility. Maybe the aircraft was hacked. It’s looking more like a central electrical failure. I would have thought a jet like that would have redundant systems that would kick in to prevent hull loss. Maybe it was unlucky that it happened at a time when recovery was impossible.

A fuel issue or vapour lock looks unlikely as the engines were running ok before takeoff.

The engines turned off. I would not be surprised if we don’t actually get an answer.

 

[meanmaryjean]

My daughter (20 + years an FAA licensed mechanic) mentioned a potential math error in a fuel additive when fueling the aircraft. The people.who fuel aircraft are not typically licensed or trained in any significant manner. She hesitates to speculate in these cases but in her mind it could explain the known facts and timeline.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939434159417561425

"The aircraft spent less than 40 seconds in the air
before exploding upon impact
and numerous explanations have been put forward for the plane's premature descent.

While there has been feverish speculation around the reasons for the crash,
this is the first time
that sabotage has been acknowledged
as a possibility by an official source.

Another factor cited is the fact that the plane suffered a double engine failure,
a very rare occurrence in natural conditions.

Besides sabotage,
some analysts have suggested a catastrophic technical fault could be responsible for the crash.

However,
there has been concerns about the model's engines,
including a mid-air drive on a LATAM Airlines flight last year
which was reportedly caused by a faulty seat in the cockpit
and left more than 50 passengers injured."

 

[IQuestion]

DOTTA!, great information, thank you.
Snipped for focus:
While there has been feverish speculation around the reasons for the crash,
this is the first time
that sabotage has been acknowledged
as a possibility by an official source.
A mechanical problem, maintenance, training, software issue....all those can be addressed, fixed or improved and help to make aviation safer for all. But...sabotage?? That's a whole different issue...

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Just trying to rationalise the engines stopping at the same time. I have been reading about FADEC. Full authority digital engine control.

A malfunction of the FADEC looks most likely. Given that there are redundant systems (more than one FADEC) on most commercial aircraft again points to a failure in the power supply to these units.

They all turned off and stopped the fuel supply to the engines.

I am surprised that there is not redundancy in power supply systems to FADEC.

If there is redundancy then we could be looking at computer hack that disabled the power or the FADECS themselves. It really can’t be a single system failure.

Addit: There is redundancy in FADEC power supply with supply coming directly from magnetos attached to the engine as well as aircraft power systems.

For both engines to fail at the same time and the Ram turbine to deploy, the power supply to throttle and aircraft had to have been turned off. The power to the aircraft is from both engines.

I am starting to think this is a computer failure or someone has hacked the aircraft. It would be interesting to know when the software was last accessed. How connected are aircraft computers to the net?

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Here is another possibility with malfunction of the radio altimeter leading to controlled flight into terrain.

FAA Issues Airworthiness Directive for Boeing 787 Dreamliners Due to Autothrottle and Radio Altimeter Issues

Now this explains why an aircraft makes a controlled descent but does not explain why the RAM turbine deployed. I wonder whether Air India complied with this directive.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

So basically, switch it off and back on again.

And if that does not work, just bang the side of the computer a few times.
Seriously this could be the problem.

I was on an aircraft about 20 years ago. A Saab turboprop. You could see into the cockpit. The pilot could not get the engine to start (starboard). He banged on the console 3-4 times and it then started. Did the same with the port turboprop.

As we were on the taxi run, the pilot apologised for being late as they were having trouble getting the undercarriage down.

Never flew on that airline again.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939570131035652604

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939971830875304221

 

[Dotta]

"Ahmedabad Air India plane crash:​

Preliminary report on AI171 likely soon, ​

say sources.​

Nineteen days after the fatal crash of Air India flight AI171,
the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) is expected to release its preliminary investigation report this week or early next week.

The report would provide the first official insight into the final moments of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner
before it went down shortly after take-off.

Sources said the report is unlikely to conclude the cause of the crash but will detail:

• A timeline of the flight's final minutes
• Recorded cockpit conversations
• Control inputs made by the pilots
• Aircraft system data
• Weather conditions and ATC communications."

Ahmedabad Air India plane crash: Preliminary report on AI171 likely soon, say sources - CNBC TV18

The sources told CNBC-TV18 the report will detail a timeline of the flight's final minutes, recorded cockpit conversations, control inputs made by the pilots, aircraft system data, and weather conditions and ATC communications.

www-cnbctv18-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Sherlock437]

I have a major doubt. There have been posts how the airline AI-171 had returned from a short trip to Ahmedabad and the immediate next trip was an international trip from Ahmedabad to London - implies comparatively a long-distance flight. Don't the authorities check thoroughly for all possible small details before taking-off again ? And in one report it was mentioned that this plane in particular - AI 171 during take-off, it used almost the entire runaway - a 3.5km distance to take off as opposed to an ideal 2.5-3.0 kms. If an airline is not getting enough thrust, then don't the pilots automatically halt the airline or focus to see what the problem is instead of attempting to trying a take-off? Sorry, not sure how the mechanics or working of the airlines / planes work !

 

[Sherlock437]

My daughter (20 + years an FAA licensed mechanic) mentioned a potential math error in a fuel additive when fueling the aircraft. The people.who fuel aircraft are not typically licensed or trained in any significant manner. She hesitates to speculate in these cases but in her mind it could explain the known facts and timeline.

Don't they have a range for the fuel to be filled up ? I always thought they'll be given a range to fuel up and have to stay within that .
Also, it was mentioned that a few of the passengers couldn't make it to the flight due to various reasons, so even taking that into consideration, the weight should've been compensated or lighter with the missing passengers on board, right ? Plz can you see if you can get these clarified if no problem

 

[indicolite22]

I have a major doubt. There have been posts how the airline AI-171 had returned from a short trip to Ahmedabad and the immediate next trip was an international trip from Ahmedabad to London - implies comparatively a long-distance flight. Don't the authorities check thoroughly for all possible small details before taking-off again ? And in one report it was mentioned that this plane in particular - AI 171 during take-off, it used almost the entire runaway - a 3.5km distance to take off as opposed to an ideal 2.5-3.0 kms. If an airline is not getting enough thrust, then don't the pilots automatically halt the airline or focus to see what the problem is instead of attempting to trying a take-off? Sorry, not sure how the mechanics or working of the airlines / planes work !

I also remember a longer than normal takeoff run being mentioned, which was based on the videos released. One possible explanation listed was a single engine failure during the takeoff run. A plane can take off with one operating engine. If a problem is detected below a certain decision speed (while still on the runway), it can safely stop, but if above that speed, the takeoff continues. A much bigger problem occurs if the second engine quits as well or doesn't give enough power in the critical moment.
On one of my last flights (only a passenger) we had a single engine bird strike on the takeoff run. Luckily it was below the decision speed and we stopped after heavy braking. Perhaps only a few seconds later, we would have taken off (and later returned to the airport).

I wonder if any theories of the dual engine failure will be correct. The failure doesn't have to be simultaneous.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I have been reading about the Autothrottle on Boeing aircraft. To get simultaneous engine loss of thrust as well as electrical failure, the auto throttle must of turned the engines off. I am surprised that this would be possible. If it happened at any other time in the flight envelope it would be recoverable. Happening within seconds of rotation left no time to recover.

I guess we will have to wait for the report. This is my best bet at the moment.

 

[Sherlock437]

I also remember a longer than normal takeoff run being mentioned, which was based on the videos released. One possible explanation listed was a single engine failure during the takeoff run. A plane can take off with one operating engine. If a problem is detected below a certain decision speed (while still on the runway), it can safely stop, but if above that speed, the takeoff continues. A much bigger problem occurs if the second engine quits as well or doesn't give enough power in the critical moment.
On one of my last flights (only a passenger) we had a single engine bird strike on the takeoff run. Luckily it was below the decision speed and we stopped after heavy braking. Perhaps only a few seconds later, we would have taken off (and later returned to the airport).

I wonder if any theories of the dual engine failure will be correct. The failure doesn't have to be simultaneous.

But if a plane if flying long distance (checked on Google and it says that the distance and time from Ahmedabad to London, Gatwick) is approximately 6,859 km (4,261 miles). A direct Air India flight on this route typically takes around 9 hours and 40 minutes. If a plane, while taking off has only a single engine, then is it ideally safe to fly the same plane (with only one engine working) to a distance of 6,859 km and can travel for 9hrs 40 mins without any other possible mishap ? What if after the take off, the plane in the air, gets a bird strike, then the only engine that is left stops working too.. That also is a dangerous situation, no ??

Edited to add->
Also, if I am not wrong, the Mayday call said No thrust. So if a plane doesn't receive its full / complete thrust in a 3.5km runway, would they still attempt to try to lift the plane instead of halting it ?

 

[australianwebsleuth]

But if a plane if flying long distance (checked on Google and it says that the distance and time from Ahmedabad to London, Gatwick) is approximately 6,859 km (4,261 miles). A direct Air India flight on this route typically takes around 9 hours and 40 minutes. If a plane, while taking off has only a single engine, then is it ideally safe to fly the same plane (with only one engine working) to a distance of 6,859 km and can travel for 9hrs 40 mins without any other possible mishaps. What if after the take off, the plane in the air, gets a bird strike, then the only engine that is left stops working too.. That also is a dangerous situation, no ??

No one would fly a plane 9 hrs after losing one engine. They would fly to the closest suitable runway.

 

[meanmaryjean]

My daughter (20 + years an FAA licensed mechanic) mentioned a potential math error in a fuel additive when fueling the aircraft. The people.who fuel aircraft are not typically licensed or trained in any significant manner. She hesitates to speculate in these cases but in her mind it could explain the known facts and timeline.

I need to clarify something about my post above. There is a fuel additive (think that carburetor cleaner we used to put in our cars- STP it was called) that is put into fuel tanks WITH the fuel that help inhibit microbial growth / gunk / sludge in fuel tanks. THIS is the additive I referred to, and my daughter's thought is with the minimal training given to fuelers, an error of a factor of ten or even 100 in calculating the volume to put in the tank might have been made. This additive, in proper amounts does its job and nothing else. IF an error was made and the aircraft was 'overdosed' as it were, it could shut down the engines.

 

[Sherlock437]

No one would fly a plane 9 hrs after losing one engine. They would fly to the closest suitable runway.

Exactly ! That is my doubt as well. My comment was a reply to the below post.

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indicolite22 said:
I also remember a longer than normal takeoff run being mentioned, which was based on the videos released. One possible explanation listed was a single engine failure during the takeoff run. A plane can take off with one operating engine. If a problem is detected below a certain decision speed (while still on the runway), it can safely stop, but if above that speed, the takeoff continues. A much bigger problem occurs if the second engine quits as well or doesn't give enough power in the critical moment.
On one of my last flights (only a passenger) we had a single engine bird strike on the takeoff run. Luckily it was below the decision speed and we stopped after heavy braking. Perhaps only a few seconds later, we would have taken off (and later returned to the airport).

I wonder if any theories of the dual engine failure will be correct. The failure doesn't have to be simultaneous.
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