Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[indicolite22]

When the survivor of the plane jumped out and walked away, I wondered how that was possible when he was sitting next to a wing load of fuel that exploded almost immediately it crashed. Has his miracle escape been explained?

SBM. According to a media article linked earlier, he was ejected from the plane (still in his seat) and landed on the soft ground in a gap between two buildings. There were four buildings in a row. The plane crashed in front of the buildings. In the video taken by rescuers he is seemingly coming from behind a building, which probably shielded him from the fire.

 

[Dotta]

Re Focus on the fuel control switches

"Experts however warn
that it may be an oversimplification to focus on the fuel switch issue
without considering the underlying reasons that led to such a decision.

The pilot who has previously commanded the same Boeing 787 Dreamliner that crashed in Ahmedabad
said on Wednesday
that such as decision (if taken at all)
would only come under extenuating circumstances.

'Captain Sumit and his co-pilot
did not walk from home, come to the aircraft and say:
"Let’s play games with the fuel control switches."
Even if the fuel control switch was cut off and rerun,
there must have been something there,
must have something gone wrong with the airplane.
That’s why they did that.
It’s not something to play around with'.

He also reiterated the impossibility of triggering it by accident —
noting that it could only be
'a deliberate attempt to switch off the fuel control switches'.

He also cited the standard operating procedure outlined by Boeing
in case of a dual engine failure to underscore his point.

'Dual engine failure is a situation
that demands prompt action regardless of altitude or air speed'."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943316055834743001

 

[indicolite22]

According to Boeing 787 procedures, in case of a dual engine failure, the fuel switch "reset" is one of the memory items, along with the manual RAT deployment:

Dual Eng Fail/Stall
1 FUEL CONTROL switches
(both) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CUTOFF, then RUN
2 RAM AIR TURBINE switch . . . . . . . Push and hold for 1 second

Memory Items

B787 technical site

about787.weebly.com

 

[IQuestion]

According to Boeing 787 procedures, in case of a dual engine failure, the fuel switch "reset" is one of the memory items, along with the manual RAT deployment:

Dual Eng Fail/Stall
1 FUEL CONTROL switches
(both) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CUTOFF, then RUN
2 RAM AIR TURBINE switch . . . . . . . Push and hold for 1 second

Memory Items

B787 technical site

about787.weebly.com

Dual Eng Fail/Stall
1 FUEL CONTROL switches
(both) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CUTOFF, then RUN
INDICOLITE22...that makes perfect sense! Pilot turning off the Fuel Control switches because of engine failure (or lack of thrust from the engines) and he was going to attempt to restart them, but there was not enough elevation/altitude to
recover....so the plane crashed before the engines could be restarted? That is how I have interpreted the latest information.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Dual Eng Fail/Stall
1 FUEL CONTROL switches
(both) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CUTOFF, then RUN
INDICOLITE22...that makes perfect sense! Pilot turning off the Fuel Control switches because of engine failure (or lack of thrust from the engines) and he was going to attempt to restart them, but there was not enough elevation/altitude to
recover....so the plane crashed before the engines could be restarted? That is how I have interpreted the latest information.

The problem is that dual engine failure occurred prior to any attempt to restart.

A mechanism by which that happens without identifying a problem with the aircraft on the black box is pointing to either the inadvertent or deliberate action of the pilots.

I looked at auto throttle malfunction in a previous post and asked the question whether that could of turned off the engines. To lose both engines, they must of been turned off. It seems the auto throttle can’t do that, it simply controls fuel flow. Now if it turned fuel flow to a level incompatible with flight and the pilots had to restart the engines, that would be understandable. The auto throttle is a computer. Any computer can be hacked or become unresponsive. Perhaps they had not done a computer reset as recommended by Boeing. We should however see black box data of the engines throttling down. That’s not what has been reported.

I think someone in the cockpit turned the engines off and someone in the cockpit realised what had happened and then turned it back on. That’s why the engine revved.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

bbm above AUSTRALIANWEBSLEUTH You have raised many interesting possibilities and I had just finished reading an article I found "disturbingly odd."
"I told him, ‘Your father is too old to be alone.' And he said, "Just one or two more flights...then I'm just going to be with Papa."'
Captain Sumeet Sabharwal: ‘Just one or two flights left, then I am going to be just with Papa': Air India pilot's last words haunt neighbours as Powai says goodbye to Captain Sumeet Sabharwal | Mumbai News - Times of India
Read more at:
Captain Sumeet Sabharwal: ‘Just one or two flights left, then I am going to be just with Papa': Air India pilot's last words haunt neighbours as Powai says goodbye to Captain Sumeet Sabharwal | Mumbai News - Times of India

Had the captain recently contacted his HR and tell them he wanted to retire? Was he depressed
over his aging Father's health? Why not just consider hiring a caregiver?
Something just seems so "off" for lack of a better word. Family issues (Y) marital issues (N).

So how did he know he had a few more flights. Has it come out he had retired from Air India. If not…..

 

[australianwebsleuth]

The problem is that dual engine failure occurred prior to any attempt to restart.

A mechanism by which that happens without identifying a problem with the aircraft on the black box is pointing to either the inadvertent or deliberate action of the pilots.

I looked at auto throttle malfunction in a previous post and asked the question whether that could of turned off the engines. To lose both engines, they must of been turned off. It seems the auto throttle can’t do that, it simply controls fuel flow. Now if it turned fuel flow to a level incompatible with flight and the pilots had to restart the engines, that would be understandable. The auto throttle is a computer. Any computer can be hacked or become unresponsive. Perhaps they had not done a computer reset as recommended by Boeing. We should however see black box data of the engines throttling down. That’s not what has been reported.

I think someone in the cockpit turned the engines off and someone in the cockpit realised what had happened and then turned it back on. That’s why the engine revved.

If the auto throttle had malfunctioned , the correct decision would be to disengage the auto throttle and apply thrust.

Maybe someone panicked and turned the engines off, thinking they were making the correct decision.

 

[indicolite22]

The problem is that dual engine failure occurred prior to any attempt to restart.

A mechanism by which that happens without identifying a problem with the aircraft on the black box is pointing to either the inadvertent or deliberate action of the pilots.

SBM. It's possible that the switch reset occurred as a reaction to a double engine failure of undetermined origin. It is a suggested action on B787 performed from memory (before checklists) in this type of emergency. (JMO)

 

[Charlot123]

So how did he know he had a few more flights. Has it come out he had retired from Air India. If not…..

Something illogical, hard to accept. He was the only son. Sister married and living separately. Mom died. Dad was 92. By traditions, it fits: it falls on the oldest son to take care of the parents. A very devoted son, all neighbors said. Very quiet and polite. Walking his dad every day. By any logic, he'd have to at least wait till his dad would depart. After that... there are many ways to do it. Way less dramatic. I know people make irrational acts, and there is caretakers' burnout. But in his situation, it would be very irrational. By all logic, he had to wait for dad.

There were two of them. We may never find out.

 

[Spectrix]

I think someone in the cockpit turned the engines off and someone in the cockpit realised what had happened and then turned it back on. That’s why the engine revved.

In the eyewitness video, the only very distinct sound was the Ram Air Turbine.
I believe the noise of the RAT is what the survivor interpreted as revving.

Sadly in the case of dual engine failure or engine flame out, there would not have been time to restart engines. At that low airspeed, the engines could not restart via windmilling, so the Auxiliary Power Unit would need to be started first, same as when the plane is on the ground.
Starting the APU takes around 60 seconds, then starting the engines takes another 30 - 60 seconds. Their entire flight time was 30 seconds.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943626338067501127

"If the error is confirmed,
it would be one of the most serious and unprecedented incidents in recent commercial aviation history.

The captain of the flight,
Sumeet Sabharwal, was an experienced pilot who had more than 10,000 flight hours on wide-body aircraft.
Meanwhile, his co-pilot, Clive Kunder, exceeded 3,400.
The families of both pilots have made no statements so far.

Since the crash,
Air India has been undergoing a delicate transition process after years of being under state control,
and this accident comes at a critical time for the company."

 

[IQuestion]

Kind of had a feeling when I heard the preliminary report was announced for Friday.... I remembered from a PR client that announcing bad news is usually presented on "late Friday afternoons" so employees aren't spending the whole week/day answering phone calls from media and public. (Whereas, good news hits the air on a Monday.) HOWEVER nothing about the horrific loss of so many precious lives will ever assuage the citizenry, IMO. This wasn't a plane that disappeared over an ocean or other remote area....au contraire, broad daylight, populated area and lots of visual documentation...so tragic.

 

[GraceG]

When I wrote this, I didn’t realise the pilot could turn the fuel off to the engines. A fault in both switches seems unlikely unless a power failure can turn them off.

I've avoided commenting too much. I worked some follow up to Emirates Airlines flight EK231, a Boeing 777-31HER, incident in Dec. 2021 and after a lot of time with engineers for the AEG and Boeing I know more about the 777 787 that I really want to (you can read into that what you wish But in this one, it's NOT looking like another potential for mismanagement of the FMA system on takeoff. I'll wait for the prelim report. You all have covered the essential information on the system and checklists very well, and my personal feeling is this is going to be pilot error.

 

[Charlot123]

Since the crash,
Air India has been undergoing a delicate transition process after years of being under state control,
and this accident comes at a critical time for the company."

RSBM

You can say so.

Tata Group - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

J. R. D. Tata - Wikipedia (“The Aviator”, an interesting figure)

Ratan Tata - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is the history of “old money”. In 2024, Ratan Tata, a well-known businessman, died. He had the business acumen and very good relationship with the government. He left no children, so one wonders how the board is functioning, and the company is a mammoth. Maybe it is a too-typical story, and an amazing one, as the initial owners were into steel, and also, cosmopolitan Zoroastrians living in India, so such a long and colorful history.

 

[Charlot123]

Thinking of how many people would take this route, daily. The population of Gujarat is 72.653 million. So while not everyone knew the victims, too many had traveled this way. Very sorry for everyone involved in the accident, in any way.

I don’t feel it was the captain’s choice. We humans think and feel in a similar way, and any caregiver would be afraid of leaving the one dependent on him.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943702948892074071

 

[Dotta]

"A preliminary report
into the doomed Air India Flight 171
that crashed moments after take off
has been submitted to Indian authorities
-
but there is currently no obligation to make it public."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943675816379896045

 

[Spectrix]

If the report isn't to be made public, one has to wonder if it is because the contents of that report is embarrassing, both to the airline and to the government.

You can't sweep this one under the rug, Air India. The world is waiting for answers.

 

[indicolite22]

Would it still be called pilot error in case of pilot sabotage? The Air Current article only mentioned the movement of the fuel control switches being at the center of the investigation, leaving a possibility that they could have been reset. The WSJ piece (with their own sources) goes further and claims that the switches were turned off, leading to the loss of thrust.
If the preliminary report isn't going to be made public, there's a good chance of more leaks to the media.

 

[IQuestion]

Would it still be called pilot error in case of pilot sabotage? The Air Current article only mentioned the movement of the fuel control switches being at the center of the investigation, leaving a possibility that they could have been reset. The WSJ piece (with their own sources) goes further and claims that the switches were turned off, leading to the loss of thrust.
If the preliminary report isn't going to be made public, there's a good chance of more leaks to the media.

Well either scenario is bad, really bad. Intentional vs unintentional...unfortunately the same outcome. I have always said, "Incompetence is the time honored weapon of sabotage." (Of course, I didn't understand its true meaning until my 40's)