Flippy Esso: what do we know?

[sissi]

Originally posted by Ivy
[Bajt...a midget? Who said anything about a midget? Sure, an intruder could have worn gloves, but please explain why an intruder would feed JonBenet pineapple in the first place.. Even Toth, the Ramseys' most loyal and ardent supporter here, finds that idea ridiculous. [/B]

There are many scenarios that would allow for pineapple to be served and each would include only those I mentioned above.
Santa for example,could have promised a trip to the north pole,grabbed a blanket ,a book,a nightie to pack the suitcase. The pineapple points away from a stranger,yet doesn't point to the family. The family could as easily have said she arrived home,had a snack ,prepared for bed and was never seen again.
At least two hours ,at minimum, before she was killed she was fed pineapple,this is difficult to fit into a rage with mommy scene,it rings more of a lure by friend.

IMO

 

[ajt400]

You said it, sissi. I wasn't saying it was a midget, I was point out the implausibilty of Burke feeding her pineapple. I do think the pineapple is a red herring....

Why would her parents feed her pineapple, then lie and say they didn't? How would they have the criminal sophistication to know how to stage a scene successfully enough to throuw detectives off tier case and not be tried or arrested for years, but not know that an autopsy is going to show pineapple? That makes no sense....Maybe JBR got the pineapple herself.

 

[sissi]

AJT,yes that would be possible as well,however they claim her prints aren't on the bowl. I don't know how independent she was,but it would be possible to slip downstairs grab a snack while knowing her brother and father were nearby fixing a model. This would be different than coming down alone in the middle of the night,she would have felt safe.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

ajt, JonBenet's fingerprints weren't on the pineapple bowl. Did she wear gloves--and also suddenly grow tall enough to reach the pineapple in the fridge? Burke's fingerprints were on the pineapple bowl, along with Patsy's. Even though you find it implausible, Burke could have given JonBenet the pineapple.

Yes, sissi, if John or Patsy had given JonBenet the pineapple, they surely would have included that in their story. They didn't include it in their story because they didn't give her the pineapple, and they didn't know Burke had.

 

[sissi]

Okay Ivy,let's say he gave her pineapple,how did he manage this without providing a serving dish or spoon? Could it be the tupperware container upstairs was her serving dish,and someone brought it up to her?

IMO

 

[Ivy]

sissi, I think Burke took the bowl from the fridge, set it on the table, and JonBenet ate the pineapple with her fingers.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Jayelles
I'm not sure actually that the case snapper theory is viable.

The only viable theory is stun gun marks! The other set of marks is on the back, the 'missing' stun gun mark is on the duct tape.

Nothing about 'snaps' is relevant.

 

[Ivy]

Stun gun? What stun gun?

The only way to determine if a stun gun made the marks on JonBenet's body would be to examine them to see if they are electrical burns...and the Ramseys oppose exhuming her body to do that. LE hasn't pushed for exhumation because even if the marks turned out to be from a stun gun, it wouldn't accomplish anything toward solving the case, and going against the Ramseys' wishes would make LE appear cruel. Besides, one of the Ramseys could have stunned JonBenet. Proving the marks came from a stun gun wouldn't indicate one of them did, much less which one, but it wouldn't indicate an intruder did either.

The stun gun theory is a waste of time.

 

[sissi]

Maybe not a waste of time if what Toth is saying is relevant.
The tape is in custody,it may have the missing mark,and surely it wouldn't be difficult to prove by stunning another piece of duct tape to examine the effect. There were many excupatory findings that the public has not been told,this may be one.

IMO JMO

 

[ajt400]

A stun gun would point to an intruder because a parent wouldn't need to subdue a child, other than that it points to premeditation.

Secondly, were JBR's prints not found on the bowl, I thought they were. Why would BR need to lure his sister? When would the pineapple come into play, before or after the sexual molestation? Also, What if they pineapple was eaten before JBR went to bed? Then it would have no relevance, right?


And kids eat with their fingers, they dont care.

 

[Toth]

You don't have to inject any anesthetic into duct tape in order to conduct experiments with a stun gun.

 

[Imon128]

Whah?

 

[sissi]

Originally posted by Toth
You don't have to inject any anesthetic into duct tape in order to conduct experiments with a stun gun.

HA! this is true

 

[Ivy]

sissi, if you hear anything about Keenan and Ko. zapping a strip of tape with a stun gun, be sure to let us know. I hope they don't put the tape on a pig's mouth when they zap it, because enough pigs have suffered already because of the Ramseys.

Speaking of the tape, why would an intruder put a little strip of tape over JonBenet's dead mouth? Obviously it wasn't placed over her mouth when she was alive. There's no saliva on the tape, nor any indication that she'd even tried to move her lips. If she had worked her mouth a little, the short strip of tape would have come right off. The tape was staging. If the DA proves that a stun gun mark is on the tape, the Ramseys would be in deep poop if the DA and her man Smit weren't both confirmed intruder theorists.

ajt...JonBenet's fingerprints were not found on the bowl. Only Burke's and Patsy's were.

What makes you think that if Burke gave JonBenet pineapple that he was luring her? I think that on their way to the basement to play, she wanted some pineapple and he got it out for her...it was as simple as that. I see nothing devious in Burke giving his little sister pineapple.

Yes, kids often eat with their fingers, and as I said in another post, I think JonBenet ate the pineapple with hers. If she ate it before she went to bed, why did John and Patsy insist that she was asleep when they returned from the Whites' and that she'd been carried upstairs to bed?

 

[twilight]

Admiting you know when JB ate whatever she ate...possibly pineapple fixes the time of death. And lets say, for the sake of argument, that the pineapple/whatever was eaten 10 minutes before she died...they can figure that sort of stuff out by location in the digestive tract...but for the sake of argument 10 minutes does not allow the Rams to safely tuck in and get to sleep before the event. That is why they deny knowledge of the food consumption. Probably they know she ate whatever she ate very close to the time of her death. If they watched her eat it, they were very close to her at her time of death...not a particularly safe place to be...distance...they crave distance. Denying the food creates a nice space to distance themselves from the crime.

Now, we know who's close to the pineapple...Patsy, Burke (fingerprints) and JB (gut). And we know that JB ate the pineapple close to her death.

What Patsy is actually saying is I wasn't there and neither was Burke. So, is it a coincidence that three people who ate/handled the same substance did so at different times in a very short window of opportunity. I don't think so.

And there was no stun gun. That is a red herring. And to make it swim you need to exhume the body...and they have not, so that fish is dead in the water. No stun gun.

 

[sissi]

That's the problem,it wasn't ten minutes it was at least two to four hours between the time she ate the pineapple and the hour she was killed. What could this prove,within the family? Nothing..IMO

 

[ajt400]

So why would Burke and JOBR go to the basement to play? That makes so much more sense.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by ajt400
So why would Burke and JBR go to the basement to play?

Considering the rigors of that day's schedule and the late hour delivering presents, I would say that neither JonBenet nor Burke would have been inclined to wake up or go wandering around that night on their own.

 

[Ivy]

I think it's possible Burke and JonBenet didn't go to the basement. After snacking on pineapple, they might have gone back upstairs to one of their bedrooms. Just because JonBenet's body was found in the basement doesn't mean that's where she died. She might have died in very own bedroom, or in Burke's. Regardless of where in the house JonBenet died, I think her death was unintentional--the result of sibling sex play that went horribly wrong.

 

[Toth]

Place of death was in the basement.