Flippy Esso: what do we know?

[Ivy]

Toth, you may very well be right, but do you know of any evidence indicating that JonBenet died in the basement?

 

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Toth
Place of death was in the basement.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It has been said that the last place JonBenet urinated was on the floor outside the windowless room, and that this was an indication she died there, yet no urine stains are visible in close-up photos of the area. Presuming JonBenet died around 1 in the morning, nobody noted the smell of six- to twelve-hour-old urine when in the basement. Lack of photo evidence and lack of odor are supposed to be rock-solid certain evidence of no wet sheets on her bed, so why are these things thrown away as necessary components of bodily waste being shed on carpet in the basement? If we follow the evidence, and if the evidence is supposed to say she was ultimately killed by the blow to the head, then following the evidence would indicate a possibility she was killed in the kitchen, where the Maglite was. It would explain a notably missing element of the crime, an abundance of basement carpet fibers on the front of JonBenet's face, shirt and leggings, fibers which ought to be there if she was rubbed about on the floor in the area for any length of time.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Ivy
Toth, you may very well be right, but do you know of any evidence indicating that JonBenet died in the basement?

Cops cut away and took a portion of carpeting with urine stain from basement; this was thought to be the place of death since bladder most likely emptied there and then.

 

[Ivy]

Toth, I remember reading about the urine stain, but I didn't know the police took the stained carpet piece into evidence, or that the stain established for certain that she died there. Sometimes bladders don't empty immediately after death.

Why_nutt, insightful post! I hadn't thought of the kitchen as part of the crime scene, even though the Maglite was found there. And I hadn't considered the lack of basement carpet fibers on JonBenet's body as particularly telling, either.

 

[SisterSocks]

Originally posted by twilight


And there was no stun gun. That is a red herring. And to make it swim you need to exhume the body...and they have not, so that fish is dead in the water. No stun gun. [/B]

I disagree Twi, I do believe in the stun gun. The reason being.... No one has come up with a good enough theory to cover those odd abrasions.

 

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Toth
Cops cut away and took a portion of carpeting with urine stain from basement; this was thought to be the place of death since bladder most likely emptied there and then.

Photos have shown carpet cut from JonBenet's bedroom, and from John Andrew's room, but photos taken by Ramsey investigators well after investigators took forensic evidence away show the carpet outside the basement hallway, and no carpet appears to be missing. At best a picture shows pink stains on the intact carpet there. Your source fails you.

 

[Toth]

In those other areas the cops took the carpeting and the backing and actually cut out an entire segment of carpeting.

In the basement they took fibers from the carpeting. From the urine stained area.

I don't think they took the backing or cut out an entire segment from the basement.

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by twilight
Admiting you know when JB ate whatever she ate...possibly pineapple fixes the time of death. And lets say, for the sake of argument, that the pineapple/whatever was eaten 10 minutes before she died...they can figure that sort of stuff out by location in the digestive tract...but for the sake of argument 10 minutes does not allow the Rams to safely tuck in and get to sleep before the event. That is why they deny knowledge of the food consumption. Probably they know she ate whatever she ate very close to the time of her death. If they watched her eat it, they were very close to her at her time of death...not a particularly safe place to be...distance...they crave distance. Denying the food creates a nice space to distance themselves from the crime.

Now, we know who's close to the pineapple...Patsy, Burke (fingerprints) and JB (gut). And we know that JB ate the pineapple close to her death.

What Patsy is actually saying is I wasn't there and neither was Burke. So, is it a coincidence that three people who ate/handled the same substance did so at different times in a very short window of opportunity. I don't think so.

And there was no stun gun. That is a red herring. And to make it swim you need to exhume the body...and they have not, so that fish is dead in the water. No stun gun.

DEAD IS "DEAD?" RIGHT?...DITTO DITTO!!; WHY WON'T THE R'S EXHUME JONBENET'S BODY? ///...is it a LAZARETH-THING?

 

[Blazeboy3]

FYI.. probably a REPEAT huh
http://crimemagazine.com/jonbenet.htm
Patsy would not be the first mother to lose control in such a situation. One of the doctors we consulted cited toileting issues as a textbook example of causing a parental rage. So, in my hypothesis, there was some sort of explosive encounter in the child's bathroom sometime prior to one o'clock in the morning, the time suggested by the digestion rate of the pineapple found in the child's stomach [during the autopsy]. I believe JonBenét was slammed against a hard surface, such as the edge of a tub, inflicting a mortal head wound. She was unconscious, but her heart was still beating. Patsy would not have known that JonBenét was still alive, because the child already appeared to be dead. The massive head trauma would have eventually killed her.

 

[Blazeboy3]

PINEAPPLE INFO/FYI:

http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa081798.htm

Fleet and Priscilla White were friends of the Ramseys. Fleet was with John Ramsey when he found -- or "found" -- JonBenet's body]

MrsBrady:
pineapple doreen
alienwatcher:
One cop even said that when John carried the body up the stairs, he was holding it like a doll
LfromJ7:
and how does she treat Burke now?
tman:
alien: back up your statement about John Andrew
brother:
i once new a women who abused her son i had no clue when the boy was 16 he killed her she
lived on my street the father must have known and did nothing
red:
what strawberries
doreen:
strawberries found in the stomach
lou:
I think Patsy killed herself when she killed JonBenet
MrsBrady:
pineapple!
mert:
it was pineapple in the stomach
doreen:
they were served at the party they went to
alienwatcher:
It was in the news at one point that friends of John Andrew's when saying to him to cheer him
up that they thought his parents were innocent
BigEasy:
thought it was pineapple
alienwatcher:
in particular patsy,
doreen:
ok pineapple
mert:
pineapple
tman:
no strawberries, folks, just pineapple
alienwatcher:
got visibly upset and stormed off
WhodunitCO:
no pineapple at Whites'
BigEasy:
right Who
doreen:
there were not pineapples in the ramseys fridge
pip:
No, doreen, no pineapple was served at the party - which is why it's important info
Madeline:
White needs to participate in this letter campaign
tman:
pineapple the day before at party. It digests very slowly
MrsBrady:
that's why the bowl cup and spoon are on the evidence list
BigEasy:
right madeline
Shendoh:
Just read the parents' body language. They're in denial and hate each other.
doreen:
then she was awake when she got home
alienwatcher:
yes Shendoh
WhodunitCO:
pineapple was always in Ram frig...JonBenets fav snack
pip:
doreen I read there WAS pineapple in Ramsey's fridge
ergo:
I thought someone said that no pineapple was served at the White's. ?
alienwatcher:
i agree
doreen:
so she came home and ate pineapple
tman:
yes, inconsistencies in PR's statements about putting JB to bed
alienwatcher:
It might be more important the fact that the pineapple was there at all and in what condition
doreen:
then john did not carry her up to bed
pip:
doreen - yea- that's the point!
alienwatcher:
that could lead to clues about the time of death
MrsBrady:
the (excuse me) grapevine says that pineapple was not served at the White's
BigEasy:
yeah thought the pats backed ham for someone day before and had can of open pineapple
BigEasy:
baked.....sorry
alienwatcher:
yuck, canned pineapple
alienwatcher:
pineapple
doreen:
john is lying
pip:
right MrsBrady - PB said that
doreen:
burke heard all

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
FYI.. probably a REPEAT huh
http://I believe JonBenét was slamm...led her. [/B][/QUOTE] Where is the blood?

 

[Imon128]

The head wound didn't break the outer skin, from what we know. The ME didn't discover it until he pulled the skin back from the skull.

 

[ajt400]

So then would that have been enough to kill her without the garrote?

 

[Imon128]

Very likely. I think JB died, or nearly died, from asphyxiation from another source and the garrotte was just a red herring. The head wound could have come from a fall JB took when she began to be asphyxiated.

 

[ajt400]

If there was ashpyxiation from a source other than the garrote, where are the marks on her neck?

 

[Imon128]

The asphyxiation I'm thinking of didn't involve any marks on the outer body.

 

[ajt400]

Okay, so what are you talking about? Holdiing a pillow over her face? (after she is unconcious?)

 

[Imon128]

No. I'm talking about the original asphyxiation which I believe came from a sex act. That caused JB to pass out, fall and hit her head, and it's hard to ascertain what killed her because they happened too close together. Just a thought.

 

[ajt400]

Like what? What would they use? You are talking about auto-erotic asphyxiation, right??

 

[Ivy]

The ME noted petechial hemorrhages present on the eyelids and on the neck. Autopsy photos show the neck petechiae directly above and below the cord device. I don't think the cord device (the so-called "garotte") is a red herring.

Here is a link to an autopsy photo showing the petechiae above and below the "garotte." WARNING: The image is quite graphic and may be disturbing to some.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetneck.jpg

I think JonBenet was strangled with the cord device but that the head blow was delivered while she was being strangled, and that the head blow is what killed her. However, I think she was near death from being strangled and would have died even if she hadn't been struck on the head.

What could have made the large triangular abrasion on her neck?