For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[dexter75]

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Yes, that is correct~~I do not have any evidence. I have not physically seen, touched or tested any evidence. I have read documents which lead me to conclude that I cannot say with confidence that SA is responsible for TH's death. The same as I cannot conclude that a guy who was convicted 3 times in the murder of Holly Staker is responsible for her death.

Juan Rivera was tried and convicted 3 times in her murder, even after DNA evidence proved he was innocent. Overzealous prosecutors to the point that a judge had to step in and say enough is enough~~this guy cannot be tried again. They just couldn't accept they were wrong, even to the point of planting the perp's DNA and Holly's on Juan Rivera's shoes. Go figure. Dragged this poor 11 year old girls name thru the mud, saying she must have been sexually active. Very sick and twisted.

Reminds me a lot of this case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Rivera_(wrongful_conviction)

Wow, BCA!!
I had never heard of this case.
How awful😟

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[Deleted member 39678]

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Yes, that is correct~~I do not have any evidence. I have not physically seen, touched or tested any evidence. I have read documents which lead me to conclude that I cannot say with confidence that SA is responsible for TH's death. The same as I cannot conclude that a guy who was convicted 3 times in the murder of Holly Staker is responsible for her death.

Juan Rivera was tried and convicted 3 times in her murder, even after DNA evidence proved he was innocent. Overzealous prosecutors to the point that a judge had to step in and say enough is enough~~this guy cannot be tried again. They just couldn't accept they were wrong, even to the point of planting the perp's DNA and Holly's on Juan Rivera's shoes. Go figure. Dragged this poor 11 year old girls name thru the mud, saying she must have been sexually active. Very sick and twisted.

Reminds me a lot of this case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Rivera_(wrongful_conviction)

I'm sorry to say this but your recent posts on this thread don't make much sense to me. There's plenty of evidence (unlike this case) showing Rivera is innocent.

You use a case that has multiple pieces of evidence showing the defendant was innocent and say that it reminds you a lot of this case which has little to no evidence showing the defendant is innocent.

The only way for you to weigh evidence is to physically see, touch or personally test it?


I don't get it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Wow, BCA!!
I had never heard of this case.
How awful

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It is awful. I don't see a correlation to this case though.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm sorry to say this but your recent posts on this thread don't make much sense to me. There's plenty of evidence (unlike this case) showing Rivera is innocent.

You use a case that has multiple pieces of evidence showing the defendant was innocent and say that it reminds you a lot of this case which has little to no evidence showing the defendant is innocent.

The only way for you to weigh evidence is to physically see, touch or personally test it?


I don't get it.

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I guess what I was trying to say was, I'll leave the evidence finding to an expert! I don't consider reading documents or looking at pictures "finding evidence". Certainly, if I suspected something I considered to be important to the case, I would turn it over to an expert to confirm my speculation. Your views may differ, but that's ok.

My view whether right or wrong, based in fact or just pure speculation is that I don't believe he killed TH now.

I'm not sure why my view needs to be based on evidence or why we are even discussing whether or not my view is based on evidence. That's what I believe after reading the documents and formulating my view and/or opinion.

 

[IDK]

It is awful. I don't see a correlation to this case though.

Yes it is awful, and multiple experts do see correlations between the use of inadequately studied testing methods of physical evidence.

"According to a 2009 report of the National Academy of Sciences, many forensic science methods are inadequately validated, which means they have not been sufficiently tested to establish how well they work and how often and under what conditions they fail. Avery’s case provides a dramatic example of the uncertainty and confusion that can arise when experts rely on such methods, especially when the court allows the findings to be introduced as scientific evidence at trial."


The EDTA testing was created by the FBI especially for the Avery case. The testing the FBI did showed the results were accurate only 50% of the time.
This is similar to how the DNA testing in the case mentioned above was "fudged" on the part of the prosecution.
I'm not sure how those similarities are not obvious. Perhaps you would like to read more:

Here is the full article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...iable-as-you-might-think/stories/201603200003

 

[IDK]

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I guess what I was trying to say was, I'll leave the evidence finding to an expert! I don't consider reading documents or looking at pictures "finding evidence". Certainly, if I suspected something I considered to be important to the case, I would turn it over to an expert to confirm my speculation. Your views may differ, but that's ok.

My view whether right or wrong, based in fact or just pure speculation is that I don't believe he killed TH now.

I'm not sure why my view needs to be based on evidence or why we are even discussing whether or not my view is based on evidence. That's what I believe after reading the documents and formulating my view and/or opinion.

This makes sense to me BCA. Discussion and sharing of views is good, IMO. We come here voluntarily and are each entitled to our own methods of discovery and conclusions. Obviously we are not going to "solve" the case here on Websleuths, but I would like to think we could have collaborative discussions without people being attacked or condescended to. (speaking only for myself, of course)

 

[Deleted member 39678]

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I guess what I was trying to say was, I'll leave the evidence finding to an expert! I don't consider reading documents or looking at pictures "finding evidence". Certainly, if I suspected something I considered to be important to the case, I would turn it over to an expert to confirm my speculation. Your views may differ, but that's ok.

My view whether right or wrong, based in fact or just pure speculation is that I don't believe he killed TH now.

I'm not sure why my view needs to be based on evidence or why we are even discussing whether or not my view is based on evidence. That's what I believe after reading the documents and formulating my view and/or opinion.

I'm just curious if there's any evidence that supports your view. So far I haven't seen any.

 

[IDK]

I'm just curious if there's any evidence that supports your view. So far I haven't seen any.

Speaking only for myself here, but if I may mention again: the EDTA testing for one.

 

[dexter75]

This makes sense to me BCA. Discussion and sharing of views is good, IMO. We come here voluntarily and are each entitled to our own methods of discovery and conclusions. Obviously we are not going to "solve" the case here on Websleuths, but I would like to think we could have collaborative discussions without people being attacked or condescended to. (speaking only for myself, of course)

Absolutely
And IMO, BCA explained very well, more than once😉

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[Deleted member 39678]

Yes it is awful, and multiple experts do see correlations between the use of inadequately studied testing methods of physical evidence.

"According to a 2009 report of the National Academy of Sciences, many forensic science methods are inadequately validated, which means they have not been sufficiently tested to establish how well they work and how often and under what conditions they fail. Avery’s case provides a dramatic example of the uncertainty and confusion that can arise when experts rely on such methods, especially when the court allows the findings to be introduced as scientific evidence at trial."



The EDTA testing was created by the FBI especially for the Avery case. The testing the FBI did showed the results were accurate only 50% of the time.
This is similar to how the DNA testing in the case mentioned above was "fudged" on the part of the prosecution.
I'm not sure how those similarities are not obvious. Perhaps you would like to read more:

Here is the full article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...iable-as-you-might-think/stories/201603200003

What's obvious to me is at this point there is no evidence showing LE planted evidence that resulted in SA being found guilty of murder of Teresa Halbach.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Speaking only for myself here, but if I may mention again: the EDTA testing for one.

Are you saying that there's evidence that blood was planted in this case?

 

[IDK]

What's obvious to me is at this point there is no evidence showing LE planted evidence that resulted in SA being found guilty of murder of Teresa Halbach.

Not the "black and white" evidence that you seem to be asking for. However through the use of inference, logic, deduction and research, conclusions can be made.
Also, we are not yet privy to the results of the most recent testing. Can't wait for that to be available!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I apologize for being harsh with you. In fact I have been limiting my posts to this one thread because I'm tired of being attacked on other ones. It appears it's not working. I see IDK is out to get me. I may have to quit entirely.

I like you a lot BCA and I hope you accept my apology.

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Well~~Thank you Ranch. IMO, all of us come here with a purpose (hopefully not a nefarious purpose). For me, I own property not too far from there, I certainly don't want a killer running around. Originally my purpose was to keep this monster in jail for the safety of my family. I have friends and family some of which still believe he is guilty, but after finding everything I could find I cannot reasonably conclude that he is guilty. But again, that is JMHO.

Whether your purpose is in the Avery thread or another, I hope that you stay with WS as I believe good things are being done here.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I have not seen any evidence that shows LE planted blood in this case.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

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Well~~Thank you Ranch. IMO, all of us come here with a purpose (hopefully not a nefarious purpose). For me, I own property not too far from there, I certainly don't want a killer running around. Originally my purpose was to keep this monster in jail for the safety of my family. I have friends and family some of which still believe he is guilty, but after finding everything I could find I cannot reasonably conclude that he is guilty. But again, that is JMHO.

Whether your purpose is in the Avery thread or another, I hope that you stay with WS as I believe good things are being done here.

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I'm just tired of being denigrated on the Avery forum. I been on WS for a number of years and I've never seen a sub forum like this were only one side is in control of the postings. Sad.

 

[CoolJ]

I have not seen any evidence that shows LE planted blood in this case.

When you say "evidence"... please explain what you mean. I see a lot of evidence that this was a frame job.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What do you mean by "only one side is in control of the postings"?

Avery is innocent no matter what is the only mantra allowed by the majority of posters. Anyone who does not abide by that is belittled and mocked. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I'm just tired of being denigrated on the Avery forum. I been on WS for a number of years and I've never seen a sub forum like this were only one side is in control of the postings. Sad.

I had even forgotten there was a thread for those who do not believe SA was framed. I was shocked to see how many agreed in this thread that he was not framed. Since I usually just click on the recent replies in an Avery thread that is always showing on the right of the screen I had no idea so many here doesn't think he was framed and do believe he is guilty. Maybe I need to start searching for this thread now instead.

Most all of the threads are for those who think Avery was framed or is innocent so I mostly read and do not post in those threads very often, although I do read them from time to time.

I am like you, Ranch, I had rather not post in a thread where there is so much friction just because other posters have a different point of view and opinion about SA than those who thinks he was framed. Its just not worth it to me, anyway.

That is why I am a little confused about some of the posts in THIS thread. I thought they were suppose to be posts from those who believe he was not framed?

This is the title to this thread:

For those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

 

[Limaes]

Avery is innocent no matter what is the only mantra allowed by the majority of posters. Anyone who does not abide by that is belittled and mocked. JMO

Well said Ranch. If there was evidence of framing, it would be posted in the "Do" thread.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I had even forgotten there was a thread for those who do not believe SA was framed. I was shocked to see how many agreed in this thread that he was not framed. Since I usually just click on the recent replies in an Avery thread that is always showing on the right of the screen I had no idea so many here doesn't think he was framed and do believe he is guilty. Maybe I need to start searching for this thread now instead.

Most all of the threads are for those who think Avery was framed or is innocent so I mostly read and do not post in those threads very often, although I do read them from time to time.

I am like you, Ranch, I had rather not post in a thread where there is so much friction just because other posters have a different point of view and opinion about SA than those who thinks he was framed. Its just not worth it to me, anyway.

That is why I am a little confused about some of the posts in THIS thread. I thought they were suppose to be posts from those who believe he was not framed?

Thanks for your reply.

Apparently if you have doubts about LE framing Avery you are persona non grata on this forum.