For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Limaes]

*knock knock*

Hello? Anyone home? 😃

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[proudfootz]

I had even forgotten there was a thread for those who do not believe SA was framed. I was shocked to see how many agreed in this thread that he was not framed. Since I usually just click on the recent replies in an Avery thread that is always showing on the right of the screen I had no idea so many here doesn't think he was framed and do believe he is guilty. Maybe I need to start searching for this thread now instead.

Most all of the threads are for those who think Avery was framed or is innocent so I mostly read and do not post in those threads very often, although I do read them from time to time.

I am like you, Ranch, I had rather not post in a thread where there is so much friction just because other posters have a different point of view and opinion about SA than those who thinks he was framed. Its just not worth it to me, anyway.

That is why I am a little confused about some of the posts in THIS thread. I thought they were suppose to be posts from those who believe he was not framed?

This is the title to this thread:

For those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

It's tough to keep threads restricted to one topic - people tend to bring other things up in passing which can spark a little discussion back and forth.

If you read the For Those Who Do Think Avery Was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss thread you'll notice some members of WS here have posted there - notably Limaes and RANCH.

But that will happen sometimes in cases that are a bit more complex and people are reading threads that are meant to be off limits. We all just have to be careful which threads we read so as to avoid getting caught up in the moment and making an unwelcome remark.

All IMO, clearly.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It's tough to keep threads restricted to one topic - people tend to bring other things up in passing which can spark a little discussion back and forth.

If you read the For Those Who Do Think Avery Was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss thread you'll notice some members of WS here have posted there - notably Limaes and RANCH.

But that will happen sometimes in cases that are a bit more complex and people are reading threads that are meant to be off limits. We all just have to be careful which threads we read so as to avoid getting caught up in the moment and making an unwelcome remark.

All IMO, clearly.

You wont find me posting on that thread anymore.

 

[Limaes]

I had even forgotten there was a thread for those who do not believe SA was framed. I was shocked to see how many agreed in this thread that he was not framed. Since I usually just click on the recent replies in an Avery thread that is always showing on the right of the screen I had no idea so many here doesn't think he was framed and do believe he is guilty. Maybe I need to start searching for this thread now instead.

Most all of the threads are for those who think Avery was framed or is innocent so I mostly read and do not post in those threads very often, although I do read them from time to time.

I am like you, Ranch, I had rather not post in a thread where there is so much friction just because other posters have a different point of view and opinion about SA than those who thinks he was framed. Its just not worth it to me, anyway.

That is why I am a little confused about some of the posts in THIS thread. I thought they were suppose to be posts from those who believe he was not framed?

This is the title to this thread:

For those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

Yes, that is the title. I haven't read KK's book for myself yet, but from information I've seen from those that have, there may be some more case facts added to this thread.

 

[Limaes]

It's tough to keep threads restricted to one topic - people tend to bring other things up in passing which can spark a little discussion back and forth.

If you read the For Those Who Do Think Avery Was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss thread you'll notice some members of WS here have posted there - notably Limaes and RANCH.

But that will happen sometimes in cases that are a bit more complex and people are reading threads that are meant to be off limits. We all just have to be careful which threads we read so as to avoid getting caught up in the moment and making an unwelcome remark.

All IMO, clearly.

I don't mind that you post in this thread however, it would be nice if you got your facts in order first. Off topic posts being transferred to a different thread is not the same as posting in it, especially to create conflict. Thanks and JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

I like when more info about a case comes out. (IMO) One such piece of info involves SA allegedly telling more people than just his brother, CA, that TH never showed up at the salvage yard that day. Supposedly he said something (or complained) to someone at Auto Trader within the next day or 2 about TH not showing up. No idea if that's true in part or in whole, but that's what I've read. There might be a 3rd or 4th person Avery told in addition (or there might not be).

Then, when SA was meeting with cops at the salvage yard on Nov 3rd he said TH had been there but left after about 5 min, around 2:30pm. Now why lie about TH that day if nothing had happened?

IMO, one of the big reveals in the KK book is that SA wrote to KK, asking KK to take his case on as his defense attorney for his appeal. SA mentioned his sis-in-law, Candy, which sounded in Steve-speak like he was trying to pin something on Candy. The telling remark from SA was his enticement to KK that they could share in the money together after he gets his millions from MTOC.

Now one needs to ask themselves why would Avery, who has supposedly been wrongfully convicted and "railroaded" by this awful prosecutor, want the same guy who "railroaded" him to be his attorney and defend him. And not only that, but it's in SA's own handwriting, so that's proof that SA did ask. In this letter where SA asks KK to represent him, did SA confront KK letting KK know he helped railroad him, lie about him, unlawfully convict him, twist the public perception of him to help convince KK into taking on his case and righting a wrong? He did not, he said nothing of the kind. He told KK that KK 'knows' the case against him and they could make/share a lot of money together if SA wins his appeal. That is quite an interesting view into SA's mind and motivation.

(JMO)

 

[proudfootz]

I don't mind that you post in this thread however, it would be nice if you got your facts in order first. Off topic posts being transferred to a different thread is not the same as posting in it, especially to create conflict. Thanks and JMO

I'm sorry - I didn't see anything on the posts in question which indicated that moderators moved them from someplace else.

Thanks for the correction.

All MOO.

 

[Limaes]

I like when more info about a case comes out. (IMO) One such piece of info involves SA allegedly telling more people than just his brother, CA, that TH never showed up at the salvage yard that day. Supposedly he said something (or complained) to someone at Auto Trader within the next day or 2 about TH not showing up. No idea if that's true in part or in whole, but that's what I've read. There might be a 3rd or 4th person Avery told in addition (or there might not be).

Then, when SA was meeting with cops at the salvage yard on Nov 3rd he said TH had been there but left after about 5 min, around 2:30pm. Now why lie about TH that day if nothing had happened?

IMO, one of the big reveals in the KK book is that SA wrote to KK, asking KK to take his case on as his defense attorney for his appeal. SA mentioned his sis-in-law, Candy, which sounded in Steve-speak like he was trying to pin something on Candy. The telling remark from SA was his enticement to KK that they could share in the money together after he gets his millions from MTOC.

Now one needs to ask themselves why would Avery, who has supposedly been wrongfully convicted and "railroaded" by this awful prosecutor, want the same guy who "railroaded" him to be his attorney and defend him. And not only that, but it's in SA's own handwriting, so that's proof that SA did ask. In this letter where SA asks KK to represent him, did SA confront KK letting KK know he helped railroad him, lie about him, unlawfully convict him, twist the public perception of him to help convince KK into taking on his case and righting a wrong? He did not, he said nothing of the kind. He told KK that KK 'knows' the case against him and they could make/share a lot of money together if SA wins his appeal. That is quite an interesting view into SA's mind and motivation.

(JMO)

Just when I thought this case couldn't get more bizarre, new info comes out. 😊

I haven't read it myself as yet so I will state it as opinion only based on others revelations.

The thing that really blew me away is that the Attorneys for the MaM filmakers also represent BD. If the viewers were aware of this when sitting down to watch, would their perceptions have been different? imo, yes. Would it have still received international spotlight? imo, no.

The letter SA sent KK really blew KZ out of the water. Looking at some of her tweets over the last 12 months, some now appear to be pre-emptive strikes. JMO

It certainly appears that SA's initial plan was to deny to everybody that she didn't show up, or at least it was until he knew BoD had seen her. There has been speculation for months that LE focused on SA because they knew B.Janda on Teresa's phone records was in fact SA. Allegedly, when finding her recent phone records, her friends started calling the numbers that she had called that day which included BJ. Whoever answered this call had told them that it was SA she was coming to see. Not sure if the caller actually spoke to SA, but he allegedly called AT claiming she didn't show up and he doesn't like being accused of stuff. It is all starting to make more sense now. JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

Just when I thought this case couldn't get more bizarre, new info comes out. 

I haven't read it myself as yet so I will state it as opinion only based on others revelations.

The thing that really blew me away is that the Attorneys for the MaM filmakers also represent BD. If the viewers were aware of this when sitting down to watch, would their perceptions have been different? imo, yes. Would it have still received international spotlight? imo, no.

The letter SA sent KK really blew KZ out of the water. Looking at some of her tweets over the last 12 months, some now appear to be pre-emptive strikes. JMO

It certainly appears that SA's initial plan was to deny to everybody that she didn't show up, or at least it was until he knew BoD had seen her. There has been speculation for months that LE focused on SA because they knew B.Janda on Teresa's phone records was in fact SA. Allegedly, when finding her recent phone records, her friends started calling the numbers that she had called that day which included BJ. Whoever answered this call had told them that it was SA she was coming to see. Not sure if the caller actually spoke to SA, but he allegedly called AT claiming she didn't show up and he doesn't like being accused of stuff. It is all starting to make more sense now. JMO

If I was Zellner I'd be upset about these revelations coming out. She did appear to go on a preemptive strike and for good reason. These new facts, including the world now learning that her client tried to hire the very prosecutor who convicted him to handle his appeal and "share the millions that will be made", does not bode well. It's not even hearsay, as there's SA's own handwriting in a letter he sent to KK, saying exactly all that.

Combined with Avery lying to more than 1 person on more than 1 day about TH never showing up to photograph the Janda van, I think it's even more ludicrous that this whole framing/evidence planting/conspiracy continues to be advanced.

It's unfortunate that a heinous murderer was made into a martyr'd poster boy when it's becoming more and more clear just how vile and evil he is.

 

[Limaes]

I wonder if she has had second thoughts at any stage?

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[Madeleine74]

I wonder if she has had second thoughts at any stage?

Can't imagine the thought that her own client has been running his mouth and through his own words on paper in his own handwriting, which no one can claim was planted, hasn't made her case harder. She must be wondering what other evidence or info is going to come to light next. When you take on a client who shoots himself in the foot, and then shoots his other foot too, you must occasionally wonder if this client is the best use of your time and resources.

Turns out Avery is not all that great at keeping his mouth shut, and he's been prolific with his threats to various women including the ex-wife in his letters. His own brother & SIL got a restraining or no-contact order against him while he was in prison. He's been accused by more than 1 young family member (females) of sexual assault, and even his nephew, BD, has accused SA of molestation. Another fact that has come to light is a gf or ex-gf of one of the Dassey boys got a text from Avery the night before TH was murdered, asking her for rough sex at his trailer. That text was seen by at least one other person, perhaps more, and info about that text is in the case file.

For me, SA attempting to lure KK to represent him on appeal, with the promise of sharing the millions that SA anticipated if they could win his appeal, and seeing his own words, in his own handwriting making that offer, has only strengthened his guilt.

IMO no one in their right mind would ever want to work with an attorney they thought was a liar, an attorney they thought ruined their life, who 'railroaded' them, who could not be trusted because 'everything that lawyer says is lies and more lies.' SA wanting KK to represent him indicates SA thought KK did a good job, knew the case well, had some respect for the work KK did, and wanted KK to advocate for him. No way to spin it, Stevie did not share the same opinion of KK that Stevie's supporters did.

 

[Limaes]

As per usual, it isn't SA's fault. Everything that ever happens is not his fault. It is always someone else that is lying. [emoji57]

 

[Madeleine74]

Hello from 30,000 ft. Free WiFi on this flight!

I always know when a case has totally jumped the shark when the allegations are that everyone else lied or is lying except for the killer, who is usually also cast in the roll of martyr. Whatever misfortunes befalling the killer are never his/her fault, it's always that the world is out to get them. Can't tell you how many times I've seen this happen in murder cases I've followed. Or the placating, "well no one ever said he was a great guy or a great husband, or <fill in the blank>, but nothing in this case makes sense and everyone is just out to get him/her, so obviously he/she's been framed."

The thing is, there are people who get wrongfully convicted and it usually has nothing to do with conspiracy or framing. SA doesn't happen to be in that situation in the TH case. Physical and forensic evidence as well as the killer's own lies, lies he got caught in, nailed him.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Steven Avery is a convicted killer. Why should I believe his claims of innocence?

 

[Madeleine74]

Here's a question that needs to be answered:

Why did Avery tell his brother, CA, and also (allegedly) call Auto Trader a day or so later, and during that call claim that TH never showed up to photograph the Janda van that day?

 

[Limaes]

I'm guessing his initial story was going to be that she didn't show up and he never seen her. Then he found out that BoD had seen her and changed his story.

In one of his tv interviews before he was arrested, he said the words she used to come here. How did he know she wouldn't be coming back?



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[Limaes]

I have to wait until the 21st, but I'm interested in finding out more about the alleged phone call from SB.

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[Madeleine74]

I have to wait until the 21st, but I'm interested in finding out more about the alleged phone call from SB.

The 21st? What's occurring on the 21st? Who is SB?

I find it interesting that Avery's lies to more than 1 person are conveniently being ignored. Avery lying about TH never showing up that day are proof of his guilty conscience, otherwise there's no reason to lie. And not only that, Avery lied in his first contact with LE who were looking for TH, claiming she only stayed for about 5 min, maybe 10 at most, he saw her out the window but never talked to her that day.

It's always claimed that Stevie doesn't lie, and Stevie fesses up to all the things he did. And that's yet another lie or "alternative fact."

In claims that only the truth are being sought, why are Stevie's lies ignored? How does ignoring the whole picture get to the truth?

 

[Limaes]

Kratz' book isn't available here until the 21st. Hopefully I can get the Kindle version.

From some comments I've seen, Teresa's room mate allegedly phoned the numbers that she called that day (remember they gave a printout to the cops and the 11.43 call she made to BJ's). No idea at this point who he spoke to, but this is the reason that SA allegedly called AT and told them she didn't show up and that he didn't want to be accused of stuff. It is also the reason that the cops knew the BJ booking was actually SA.

Stevie does lie!

JMO


ETA: SB must have told him she was missing. JMO of course.

 

[CoolJ]

The 21st? What's occurring on the 21st? Who is SB?

I find it interesting that Avery's lies to more than 1 person are conveniently being ignored. Avery lying about TH never showing up that day are proof of his guilty conscience, otherwise there's no reason to lie. And not only that, Avery lied in his first contact with LE who were looking for TH, claiming she only stayed for about 5 min, maybe 10 at most, he saw her out the window but never talked to her that day.

It's always claimed that Stevie doesn't lie, and Stevie fesses up to all the things he did. And that's yet another lie or "alternative fact."

In claims that only the truth are being sought, why are Stevie's lies ignored? How does ignoring the whole picture get to the truth?

where is all of this info coming from?