For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[BigCityAccountant]

Property Tag#8429 - Map page with MapQuest on it of the immediate area at N44 degrees 15.020 and W87 degrees 47.215, collected at 0913 hours

Wasn't it RH that printed out MapQuest maps of the search area? I would love to see what date was on that mapquest map that was taken into custody.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Well... there is another Salvage yard that apparently has done quite well since all of this took place. It's called Cleveland Auto and Salvage... can probably find lots of info about that in the links in the new Ricky Hochstetler thread.

Tangled web indeed

This is very true. I believe it is owned by the Herman's, but I'm not for sure. As a child we traveled to see my grandparents often further up North. I always saw the junkyard cars along I-43 (old cars). I don't know if they were the Avery's or not..but I also saw billboard signs for Avery Auto Salvage. I don't see those anymore, I think I might have saw one? I'll have to check next time I go up. In any event, there is a big yellow billboard for Cleveland Auto Salvage. I'll try to get a picture next time I go and its location as well. I think the billboard is near the Avery's.

 

[Wendy101]

Hum...never noticed this before....on 11/5/05, the day they found the RAV4....

"Upon walking away from that object, I did locate, what appeared to be, fresh blood in gravel. Medical Examiner Klaeser did arrive at my location and did confirm that he did believe it also to be blood". I informed Medical Examiner KLAESER I had some concerns due to the fact we did have a substantial amount of rain within the past couple of days and felt it to be very odd that this could possibly be blood from the case we were working on. CASO Reports, page 219.

To my understand, this location was found walking away from where the rag with the brownish red colored stain on it was found. IIRC, the rag was found in the quarry.. I found it, just a few minutes ago~~but I can't seem to find it again~~~Missy, you got this at your fingertips???

Just talking out loud here~~and of course, all JMHO~~~

Do you suppose the blood was taped to the RAV4, using the duct tape and the rag actually has SA's blood on it and when the blood was planted it dripped into the gravel by whoever was planting it? (BTW~I couldn't find where the rag was tested, thus I lost the document where the rag was found in the gravel...LOL)

Fresh blood, right after it rained on the day they found the Rav4, hum???

Wait - i thought Medical Examiner was banned from the Avery site.. where was he...and why was TH's vehicle there?

 

[Karinna]

Well... there is another Salvage yard that apparently has done quite well since all of this took place. It's called Cleveland Auto and Salvage... can probably find lots of info about that in the links in the new Ricky Hochstetler thread.

Tangled web indeed

Yeah, it seems like there was enough motive with all that going on there. But i still can't fathom why TH was killed if that's exactly what happened, because i don't see her being involved with any of the salvage yard businesses except to photograph vehicles. Maybe people that knew her well could of shed some light on that, or some of the locals? Who were her best friends etc.? Problem with this case is we know hardly anything about what might have really been going on in TH's life apart from what her family has said about her, and people that worked with her. I just can't see anyone murdering her just for the heck of it.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Wait - i thought Medical Examiner was banned from the Avery site.. where was he...and why was TH's vehicle there?

The day the bones were found the 8th, the ME from Manitowoc was banned. This appears to be the ME from Calumet??? and he was there on the 10th...although I not sure if he was at the burn pit or just the quarry....If I understand it correctly, the burn pit had already been altered by the 10th.

 

[missy1974]

Wait - i thought Medical Examiner was banned from the Avery site.. where was he...and why was TH's vehicle there?

He wasn't at Avery's, he was at the quarry, where the blood stain was found. IIRC it's item CX in the lab reports and was tested, it is unidentified male DNA, didn't match SA or anyone in his family that they had DNA from.

The only mention of him in the CASO reports is about the quarry. Other than the death certificate.

No way, no how would we not have heard if there was a Coroner there at the burn pit LOL Kratz, among others, would have whined that it was left out of the documentary

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So I thought I would post this for interest's sake. These are the GPS coordinates from the CASO reports, Page 172. I used the coordinates to find where the Gun Shells were found.

Interesting enough, the coordinates for the 11 shells found in Avery's garage do not appear in the CASO reports.

Also, the GPS location for these shells was not taken also or at least not documented in the CASO reports.

On 11107105 at approximately 1135 hours, Fire Fighter PAUL HUIZENGA, DOB 06122167,located four shotgun shells. These shells were approximately 30" south of the conveyor near an entrance to a gravel pit. These shells were approximately 20' east of the sock. These shells were red plastic and a shiny aluminum. The shells did not show any rust. They appeared to have been placed there recently. The area where these shells were located was marked with cones.

 

[dexter75]

So I thought I would post this for interest's sake. These are the GPS coordinates from the CASO reports, Page 172. I used the coordinates to find where the Gun Shells were found.

Interesting enough, the coordinates for the 11 shells found in Avery's garage do not appear in the CASO reports.

Also, the GPS location for these shells was not taken also or at least not documented in the CASO reports.

On 11107105 at approximately 1135 hours, Fire Fighter PAUL HUIZENGA, DOB 06122167,located four shotgun shells. These shells were approximately 30" south of the conveyor near an entrance to a gravel pit. These shells were approximately 20' east of the sock. These shells were red plastic and a shiny aluminum. The shells did not show any rust. They appeared to have been placed there recently. The area where these shells were located was marked with cones.

More of that there " Evidence "
No disrespect toward anyone here, however, those " notes " or description of shells, look like they were written by a 3rd grader🙄

Thanks again BCA!😉
YOU guys are the best!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

November 8th BCA

So my poor hubby is trying to watch a movie and I asked him about the insulation... tubular burned insulation. He said there is no way there would be anything left of it if the fire was hot enough to burn her body in that manner. He's an electrician ;-) I will say JMO or JMHO (just my hubby's opinion) because I'm not going to look for links lol

Hello there sir, Mr.1974!😉
Thanks for loaning us your wife!..
( Since January at least )

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

reading your post again.... HUH???? They had a Medical examiner at the quarry???? but not at the fire pit 'crime scene'????

you can't make this stuff up, seriously!

I don't think they did test it BCA, I am pretty sure the blood stain is the unidentified male DNA from the quarry though.

Nope.
Not making it up at all.
Just following evidence & testimony.
*whistles away *

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

So,
Being the open minded person that I am ( I really DO look at many sides to an issue, always have. Strength, weakness, IDK? ) I thought I would check out the " Framing a Murderer " for the first time.

30 seconds in, couldn't do it, nope.:facepalm:

 

[Jaiddie]

http://fox11online.com/news/local/lakeshore/state-requests-hearing-in-avery-case 'State Requests Hearing in Avery Case' "This should give the State ample time to locate and inventory all items which are the subject of the Defendant's Motion. Additionally, this should provide the State with time to determine which items are covered by the April 4, 2007, Preservation of Blood Evidence and Independent Defense Testing Order entered by Judge Patrick L. Willis at the conclusion of Defendant's trial,". So, in other words, they are going to need a month to "locate and inventory" the evidence? I believe that when Zellner put in the motion to test the evidence a month ago, that she had also made a special trip to Manitowoc to request that the courts transfer the "evidence" from Manitowoc Co. to Calomet Co to ensure that no funny business went on with said "evidence", IIRC. Yet, now they are going to need another additional month? Second of all, the state is apparently only going to agree to testing to certain items instead of all of it? That is something else that speaks volumes to me, when a convicted (supposedly guilty) man wants EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE TESTED, be tested, but the state does not want some of that testing done. JMO. Nothing suspicious here, folks, as usual it would seem.:shakehead:

 

[missy1974]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fallon-Letter-to-Judge-9-19-16.pdf

Here is the link to the letter sent to the Judge.

I agree Jaiddie, test it all, what are they afraid of?

If I was KZ, I would be saying 'screw you', what do you mean locate and inventory??!!?? KZ didn't make a special trip to Manitowoc to find out about the evidence, but she did call and it is referenced in the Motion to test.

Here is a copy of the order dated April 4, 2007, ORDER ON PRESERVATION OF BLOOD EVIDENCE AND INDEPENDENT DEFENSE TESTING

It seems pretty clear in that order (which btw Gahn, the special prosecutor, agreed too)

For purposes of facilitating the relief allowed in paragraph 4 above and
without further order of a judge or court, the State shall transfer without delay to a
laboratory or scientist designated by the defense any or all of the materials described in
paragraphs 1 through 3 above as necessary to permit the
defense to undertake independent scientific testing.

BBM above, from the order... this shouldn't even be an issue and shouldn't need a hearing, hand it over IMO

 

[dexter75]

http://fox11online.com/news/local/lakeshore/state-requests-hearing-in-avery-case 'State Requests Hearing in Avery Case' "This should give the State ample time to locate and inventory all items which are the subject of the Defendant's Motion. Additionally, this should provide the State with time to determine which items are covered by the April 4, 2007, Preservation of Blood Evidence and Independent Defense Testing Order entered by Judge Patrick L. Willis at the conclusion of Defendant's trial,". So, in other words, they are going to need a month to "locate and inventory" the evidence? I believe that when Zellner put in the motion to test the evidence a month ago, that she had also made a special trip to Manitowoc to request that the courts transfer the "evidence" from Manitowoc Co. to Calomet Co to ensure that no funny business went on with said "evidence", IIRC. Yet, now they are going to need another additional month? Second of all, the state is apparently only going to agree to testing to certain items instead of all of it? That is something else that speaks volumes to me, when a convicted (supposedly guilty) man wants EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE TESTED, be tested, but the state does not want some of that testing done. JMO. Nothing suspicious here, folks, as usual it would seem.:shakehead:

This really ticks me off! Grrrr!
Avery is WILLING, sitting there in prison, willing saying bring it on ( more or less)

Yet the state, good Ole trustworthy Manitowoc County shouts " but, we need more time and by the way, you can only test this this and this?!" ( more or less)
Are we going by the same judicial system here or???

And really, how much TIME does one, or a team, need to locate evidence that should be stored appropriately.
Documented, labeled, and alphabetically or numerically put on a shelf?!?!

IMO, the good Ole boys in Manitowoc are being much more careful in defending all of this corruption and crooked mis conduct, than they were with dear Teresa's remains.

And to think there will be those who sit by, watch, and think it's perfectly ok.

All JMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[missy1974]

Ok, I have a few thoughts ... first, I guess I should have been more clear in my last post and it's too late to edit it.... IMO there should be no issue or hearing about the evidence that was ruled on back in 2007, it's a clear order and honestly, I bet if I took a half hour or so and went through the evidence list and lab reports, I could make them a list pretty damn quickly of what should be handed over to KZ. (I might just do it later for fun haha)

I somewhat expected them to argue about some of the other testing.... and I hope a hearing will provide us with more information from Zellner, in a purely selfish "I wanna know" kind of way LOL

On another note..... anyone else think it's odd that Kratz has gone silent???? He doesn't work for the State any longer, so I don't think he has been hushed.... evidence from his spewing his misinformation for the last 8 or so months... well, up until BD's decision came out, I don't think I have read a thing about him commenting or anything.

Oh and.... Fallon asking for a hearing the weeks of October 24 or October 31, or November 7

the October 31st thing didn't sit well with me at all. If there is a hearing that day, I think it will be in poor judgement, and that day should be for the Halbach's and they shouldn't be burdened by a hearing that day. JMO

 

[missy1974]

Ok so... for fun, I went and looked at the reports, and here is what I came up with, in accordance with the order dated April 4, 2007 in the first 3 paragraphs.

Exhibit 311 is the report that shows what evidence was taken from the RAV4 and the Grand AM. There are some preliminary results, but further testing provides more conclusive reporting by SC.

Exhibit 312 shows the results for A6, A8, A9, A12, being SA's DNA.

Exhibit 313 shows the results for A7, A10, again being SA's DNA.

It should be noted that A6 is a cut stain from the drivers seat and A7 is described as a blood crust, A9 is a cut from the passenger seat. I believe that paragraph 1 in the order covers those.

A8, A10, A12 are swabs and I believe are covered under paragraph 2 of the order.

Paragraph 3 refers to what was sent to the FBI.

Exhibit 435


from the FBI EDTA testing:

Q46 Swab Item 9569
Q47 Swab Item 9574
Q48 Swab Item 9572
Q49 Liquid blood same from SA Item 9803

K2 Two Control swabs Item 9802
K3 Two Control swabs Item 9801
K4 Two Control swabs Item 9800

Note: the item number is the number that it was logged in as evidence at CASO. Photo's of these can also be found here.

This took me less than a half hour, actually took me longer to do the formatting LOL This should not be that hard for the State to comply with IMO

 

[dexter75]

Ok so... for fun, I went and looked at the reports, and here is what I came up with, in accordance with the order dated April 4, 2007 in the first 3 paragraphs.

Exhibit 311 is the report that shows what evidence was taken from the RAV4 and the Grand AM. There are some preliminary results, but further testing provides more conclusive reporting by SC.

Exhibit 312 shows the results for A6, A8, A9, A12, being SA's DNA.

Exhibit 313 shows the results for A7, A10, again being SA's DNA.

It should be noted that A6 is a cut stain from the drivers seat and A7 is described as a blood crust, A9 is a cut from the passenger seat. I believe that paragraph 1 in the order covers those.

A8, A10, A12 are swabs and I believe are covered under paragraph 2 of the order.

Paragraph 3 refers to what was sent to the FBI.

Exhibit 435


from the FBI EDTA testing:

Q46 Swab Item 9569
Q47 Swab Item 9574
Q48 Swab Item 9572
Q49 Liquid blood same from SA Item 9803

K2 Two Control swabs Item 9802
K3 Two Control swabs Item 9801
K4 Two Control swabs Item 9800

Note: the item number is the number that it was logged in as evidence at CASO. Photo's of these can also be found here.

This took me less than a half hour, actually took me longer to do the formatting LOL This should not be that hard for the State to comply with IMO

I rest my case.:loveyou::cheers::blowkiss::goodpost:

Thank you, Missy. You're the best!

 

[dexter75]

Ok, I have a few thoughts ... first, I guess I should have been more clear in my last post and it's too late to edit it.... IMO there should be no issue or hearing about the evidence that was ruled on back in 2007, it's a clear order and honestly, I bet if I took a half hour or so and went through the evidence list and lab reports, I could make them a list pretty damn quickly of what should be handed over to KZ. (I might just do it later for fun haha)

I somewhat expected them to argue about some of the other testing.... and I hope a hearing will provide us with more information from Zellner, in a purely selfish "I wanna know" kind of way LOL

On another note..... anyone else think it's odd that Kratz has gone silent???? He doesn't work for the State any longer, so I don't think he has been hushed.... evidence from his spewing his misinformation for the last 8 or so months... well, up until BD's decision came out, I don't think I have read a thing about him commenting or anything.

Oh and.... Fallon asking for a hearing the weeks of October 24 or October 31, or November 7

the October 31st thing didn't sit well with me at all. If there is a hearing that day, I think it will be in poor judgement, and that day should be for the Halbach's and they shouldn't be burdened by a hearing that day. JMO

Kratz, silent?..hmmm:thinking: Now that you mention it..* hops on pogo stick, over to Google " where are they now? " * as I had this VERY same thought just minutes ago, while reading S. Culhanes " results " while looking over HER lab reports:facepalm:

 

[missy1974]

I rest my case.:loveyou::cheers::blowkiss::goodpost:

Thank you, Missy. You're the best!

Meh... I was avoiding doing the dishes LOL

 

[dexter75]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fallon-Letter-to-Judge-9-19-16.pdf

Here is the link to the letter sent to the Judge.

I agree Jaiddie, test it all, what are they afraid of?

If I was KZ, I would be saying 'screw you', what do you mean locate and inventory??!!?? KZ didn't make a special trip to Manitowoc to find out about the evidence, but she did call and it is referenced in the Motion to test.

Here is a copy of the order dated April 4, 2007, ORDER ON PRESERVATION OF BLOOD EVIDENCE AND INDEPENDENT DEFENSE TESTING

It seems pretty clear in that order (which btw Gahn, the special prosecutor, agreed too)



BBM above, from the order... this shouldn't even be an issue and shouldn't need a hearing, hand it over IMO

One or more of them there " good ole boys " from the trusted Manitowoc County " profession, " probably all of a sudden remembered something incriminatinghone:
Yep, JMO..HOWEVER, what could they possibly need a month longer for? Especially if they don't want it all tested anyway? Should take less time to locate less evidence, right?:thinking:
Unless, perhaps, whatever it is they do not want tested needs, shall we say " tweaked " somehow?