OK Foss lake Discovery

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Just curious. How do you know that? Can you provide evidence of that kiind of attitude?

I have no proof of this either but have to say growing up In the 70's, missing teens were no treated at all like they are today. A lot were thought of as runaways and it was a time when teens hitchhiked all over.

Just a different era nothing like today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

 

[Betty P]

Less clear is why did the adults go there? All three were from different places, I think. Places that were fairly close together by car, but maybe that is why they were in that area... it was on the way to one of their homes.

Respectfully, snipped for clarity

One of the articles about Nora Duncan said she told others she was going fishing with her friends, something they did fairly regularly. Apparently, she left early in the morning, as it was customary to do when the weather is hot.

 

[December]

Respectfully, snipped for clarity

One of the articles about Nora Duncan said she told others she was going fishing with her friends, something they did fairly regularly. Apparently, she left early in the morning, as it was customary to do when the weather is hot.

Wait.. I thought that it was in February? And they were leaving a restaurant that she and another guy in the car worked at? (I assumed the third guy was a regular customer.) I guess they could have been scouting out where they were going to fish?

 

[Betty P]

Wait.. I thought that it was in February? And they were leaving a restaurant that she and another guy in the car worked at? (I assumed the third guy was a regular customer.) I guess they could have been scouting out where they were going to fish?

According to this article, they went missing on April 8, 1969.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/us/oklahoma-lake-car-bodies/index.html

Checking weather history at Weather Underground, the high temperature that day was 88 degrees.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...ity=Sayre&req_state=OK&req_statename=Oklahoma

I recall another article said LE guessed she had left after breakfast because they found a coffee cup and pot of coffee sitting on her table.

In warm weather season, fishing is usually better in the early morning and evening. Those are the times when fish are biting.

 

[December]

According to this article, they went missing on April 8, 1969.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/us/oklahoma-lake-car-bodies/index.html

Checking weather history at Weather Underground, the high temperature that day was 88 degrees.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...ity=Sayre&req_state=OK&req_statename=Oklahoma

I recall another article said LE guessed she had left after breakfast because they found a coffee cup and pot of coffee sitting on her table.

In warm weather season, fishing is usually better in the early morning and evening. Those are the times when fish are biting.

Wow. I had their whole situation totally mixed up. Thanks for the information.

So, I guess maybe they got there when it was still dark. Maybe they hadn't been to that part of the lake yet and didn't know about the way the dock just went on into the lake.

I know some people who like to get there really early and have everything all set up even if they don't start until daylight.

It is sad what happened to them.

 

[PFF]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-Lake-deaths-now-a-town-whispers-murder.html

http://www.ok.gov/ocme/Missing_Persons_and_Unidentified_Bodies/index.html

 

[killarney rose]

Sorry, I'm not buying it and apparently of the families, only Jimmy's niece is the one saying it could be murder, and she never knew him. Till LE shares evidence I'm going with tragic accident.

 

[December]

That Telegraph article was rude

o.k., thanks phone. to continue...

I believe they misrepresented people's concerns.

I think people just wanted the two vehicles investigated properly and not dismissed right off the bat as an accident. But, this is not the same thing as thinking it was murder. This is saying here are two cars with three occupants each. The cars went into the lake at separate times. We need to look into the circumstances of each car and determined, as best as can be done, what happened. (And I think this has taken place.)

At this point, it really does looks as if it was two accidents. However, the accidents didn't happen in exactly the same way according to the damage to the cars (that the mechanic discovered... or lack of damage for the older vehicle). I think they need to continue investigating (which would probably just be some research) to determine why that particular time period saw these two tragic events occur. Just to give a more complete explanation to the families.

I don't know when the quotes from family were made. I do recall that IMMEDIATELY after the cars were found some felt that ruled out any foul play. Well, there may have been no foul play, but it's good to at least glance over the evidence before making that determination. The instant jump made by some people seemed kind of odd to me... the people have been missing for years, surely a few days can be spent investigating what happened. I think this is what spawned some theorizing, but as more evidence has come out that specifically supports that these were accidents, I think this theorizing has likely died down.

Unfortunately, at this point, there are things we will never know. If Jimmy was driving fast because he had this cool new car or if there is another reason won't be known. The best they most likely can do now is determine he was driving fast and unintentionally drove into the lake. But, there does not seem to be any evidence anyone else pushed the car into the lake.

 

[December]

Also, the Telegraph was rude about Leah's family. I thought they were a respectable newspaper?

 

[EmmaliLucia]

So my friend had a good theory that I realize just got discredited about a page and a half back.

He said that in Minnesota they would take their cars onto frozen lakes and go ice fishing, unfortunately a lot of cars go in the water that way. Many people died doing that, I know it was about 80 degrees out when the older group went fishing, but since it was in April is there any chance that that lake was frozen over after a really intense winter freeze? Or is that highly unlikely?

 

[wfgodot]

So my friend had a good theory that I realize just got discredited about a page and a half back.

He said that in Minnesota they would take their cars onto frozen lakes and go ice fishing, unfortunately a lot of cars go in the water that way. Many people died doing that, I know it was about 80 degrees out when the older group went fishing, but since it was in April is there any chance that that lake was frozen over after a really intense winter freeze? Or is that highly unlikely?

Highly unlikely. As a general rule lakes don't freeze in OK and none would be frozen over in April or November.

 

[December]

Highly unlikely. As a general rule lakes don't freeze in OK and none would be frozen over in April or November.

also, people would never expect the ice to be thick enough to drive their car onto..

 

[kline]

Just curious. How do you know that? Can you provide evidence of that kiind of attitude?

Well I was alive back in those days.
Parents of victims of the Houston Mass Murders and John Gacy and many others from that era when contacting authorities over their missing kids were given that attitude almost verbatim.
Go to the Doe Network and look at' Unexplained Disappearences' between 1960 and-1978 and see how many cases end with the words "authorities originally thought (fill in the name) was a runaway but it is now thought Foul Play Was involved."
Really.
Not just making it up for the fun of it.

 

[December]

Well I was alive back in those days.
Parents of victims of the Houston Mass Murders and John Gacy and many others from that era when contacting authorities over their missing kids were given that attitude almost verbatim.
Go to the Doe Network and look at' Unexplained Disappearences' between 1960 and-1978 and see how many cases end with the words "authorities originally thought (fill in the name) was a runaway but it is now thought Foul Play Was involved."
Really.
Not just making it up for the fun of it.

My cousin who was 12 and left home to go roller skating carrying a pair of roller skates and $1 in her purse was 'originally thought to be a runaway'. This makes no sense, but that is what the police insisted in the first however many hours. She was only missing 36 hours. She didn't run away.

Pretty much any kid was 'originally thought to be a runaway' no matter how little sense it makes. My cousin was abducted. The newspaper reports have the 'originally thought to be a runaway' stuff in them. I think in the wee hours when it was 23 degrees outside that the police started to consider maybe her mother was right.

So, if they're saying that about a 12 year old who was on foot and had only $1... I can't imagine how much more ridiculous it was for teenagers who had cars and gas money.

And I've seen it on a lot of other kids/teens who went missing during that time period (on their missing reports). No matter how unlikely... it is very weird. And kids/teens probably lost their lives due to it. I wonder if my cousin would've been saved if the police immediately started searching as soon as her mother reported her. Saying, 'she's a good girl, she would never do that' didn't help matters.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Brother of missing Sayre teen believes foul play a possibility

http://thedailyelkcitian.com/local-...g-sayre-teen-believes-four-play-a-possibility

 

[dotr]

Brother of missing Sayre teen believes foul play a possibility

http://thedailyelkcitian.com/local-...g-sayre-teen-believes-four-play-a-possibility

Great article, gives lots of detail and things to consider, thanks for posting!
From the link ..
bbm.
"The 69 Camaro was mistakenly reported to the media to be found in first gear. Closer investigation revealed that the cars transmission was actually in neutral, which is consistent with a backwards roll in.

The fact the car was in neutral has been confirmed by a certified mechanic obtained by OHP.

It is common knowledge among many mechanics who worked on the 1969 Camaros, that the motor mounts were defective from the factory. A recall issued by General Motors in 1971 to replace the motor mounts in the 1967 to 1969 Camaros lends credence to mechanics claims.

It is a fact that both driver and passenger side motor mounts, and the transmission mount in Jimmy’s Camaro were broken"

 

[December]

Great article, gives lots of detail and things to consider, thanks for posting!
From the link ..
bbm.
"The 69 Camaro was mistakenly reported to the media to be found in first gear. Closer investigation revealed that the cars transmission was actually in neutral, which is consistent with a backwards roll in.

The fact the car was in neutral has been confirmed by a certified mechanic obtained by OHP.

It is common knowledge among many mechanics who worked on the 1969 Camaros, that the motor mounts were defective from the factory. A recall issued by General Motors in 1971 to replace the motor mounts in the 1967 to 1969 Camaros lends credence to mechanics claims.

It is a fact that both driver and passenger side motor mounts, and the transmission mount in Jimmy’s Camaro were broken"

Holy cow. That is an entirely different kind of "accident".

 

[gp93]

What I've noticed about the two cars is that the older chevy had a door open and a rear window wound down as if the occupants had tried to escape, with the camaro there seems as if there was no attempt to escape. Also the camaro was facing the boat ramp the car was also in neutral, no damage to the front of the car, the rear damage looks like it was caused by being dragged from the lake bed.

The engine being pushed forward could of happened as the car sank, cars with an engine in the front and air in the boot always sink nose first.

As far as I can see the first chevy was an accident the occupants tried to escape but didn't make it.

The camaro is a different story, I dont believe that not one of the teenagers made it out, I can't imagine all three of them being knocked out from a collision, when your a teenager you are made from rubber and magic.

Also the corvette found burnt out 2 days later, Its a long way from California to Oklahoma, just a coincidence? I don't believe in coincidence.

 

[dotr]

What I've noticed about the two cars is that the older chevy had a door open and a rear window wound down as if the occupants had tried to escape, with the camaro there seems as if there was no attempt to escape. Also the camaro was facing the boat ramp the car was also in neutral, no damage to the front of the car, the rear damage looks like it was caused by being dragged from the lake bed.

The engine being pushed forward could of happened as the car sank, cars with an engine in the front and air in the boot always sink nose first.

As far as I can see the first chevy was an accident the occupants tried to escape but didn't make it.

The camaro is a different story, I dont believe that not one of the teenagers made it out, I can't imagine all three of them being knocked out from a collision, when your a teenager you are made from rubber and magic.

Also the corvette found burnt out 2 days later, Its a long way from California to Oklahoma, just a coincidence? I don't believe in coincidence.

Welcome to Ws gp93!
Curious about the burnt out corvette in California - sounds interesting, also love your line " when you're a teenager you are made from rubber and magic"

 

[DNW]

What if the Camaro motor mounts were broken BEFORE the car entered the water? The self perpetuating chain of events that happen when these mounts break are what forced Chevrolet to issue a recall in 1971. It could also explain why the car was found in neutral as it was the only way to stop the acceleration.

http://www.autosafety.org/chevrolet-motor-mounts

Engine mount breakage causes a self-perpetuating chain of events. When the left-side mount breaks, engine torque causes the engine to rise up, pulling open the accelerator linkage; this causes even more upward movement, and consequently more opening of the accelerator linkage, until the engine's movement is stopped by the closed hood. Moreover, the engine's upward movement pulls the power brake booster vacuum hose loose, thus greatly increasing the force needed to stop the car.