FOUND - Argentine submarine goes missing with 44 crew members on board, November 2017

[CARIIS]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5108739/Hopes-fade-finding-crew-alive-missing-submarine.html

Hopes fade for finding 44 crew members alive on board missing Argentine submarine after 'heat stain' picked up by U.S. Navy *is dismissed by officials

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That never made any sense -- heat sensed in a freezing cold ocean??

How would you not be killed instantly if one opens the hatch at that depth??

I remember a Russian fescue years ago

 

[CARIIS]

In one of the posted articles it says that during peacetime the protocol for this sub was to contact the land base twice per day. Which they had been doing. Then they reported an electrical problem but said they had gotten it fixed. Then they were ordered to turn around and go back to the base they had just visited.

During peacetime would there not be any type of a signal/locater device they could have turned on?

Very sad.

Re: Hypoxia death. Awful, just awful.

It now sounds like we are talking about structural failure i would think it might be like an implosion- so I can hope it was fast

 

[DakotaMayi]

Just heard about this from DH. What an agonizing wait for these families.

Praying :candle:

 

[Cryptic]

That never made any sense -- heat sensed in a freezing cold ocean??

How would you not be killed instantly if one opens the hatch at that depth??

I remember a Russian fescue years ago

Sub hunting ships and airplanes have extremely sensitive heat, magnetic anamoly, and sound detection systems. In the case of heat, a submarines engines etc. would radiate more heat than the surrounding cold ocean.

Also, they are not talking about opening the main hatch. Rather, submarines are equipped with special escape chambers that contain two hatches and where the water level can be raised or lowered slowly.

Ideally (there are a lot of "ifs" involved such as depth, training, type of safety equipment, functioning of safety equipment, presence of rescue divers as guides etc.), crewmen can escape from the submarine by way of the chamber.

 

[LadyL]

so if they had managed to surface then there may still be hope but if not, then they have definitely run out of oxygen

so sad

 

[Jax49]

Argentina says sound detected in search for missing submarine is consistent with non-nuclear explosion

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/1...is-consistent-with-non-nuclear-explosion.html

"They sent a piece of crap to sail," Itati Leguizamon, wife of submarine crew member German Suarez told the Associated Press. "They inaugurated a submarine with a coat of paint and a flag in 2014, but without any equipment inside. The navy is to blame for its 15 years of abandonment."

"They haven't come back and they will never come back," said Jesica Gopar, wife of submarine officer Fernando Santilli, choking back tears. "I had a bad feeling about this and now it has been confirmed."

 

[DakotaMayi]

Families of missing Argentine submarine crew reportedly told that all 44 have died

Families of crew members aboard the Argentinian submarine ARA ‘San Juan’ have reportedly been told there is no chance that 44 sailors on the ill-fated vessel are alive. The news comes after a violent underwater explosion was reported in the search area.The submariners’ families were beginning to receive the grim update on Friday morning, according to media reports. Itati Leguizamon, whose husband German Suarez was aboard the ‘San Juan,’ told ABC News that families had been told their loved ones were dead.

Leguizamon also said relatives of the crew, camped at Mar de Plata naval base, voiced cries of anguish and calls for military commanders to be held to account. She said the authorities “attacked” a person who was reading out a report that “the Austrian team had detected a strong explosion” near the missing sub.

Everyone started saying that they were liars and wretches,” the military wife said, adding she will file a lawsuit “on civil and criminal responsibility for all of this” against her deceased husband’s commanders.Luis Tagliapietro, whose son Damian, a Navy lieutenant, was aboard the doomed submarine, told Argentina’s La Nacion newspaper that he had also been informed that the crew did not survive. “They are all dead,” he said.
“I cannot talk much. They called me 15 minutes ago to tell me that it exploded,” he said through tears. “There's no human being who survives that.” Asked again if the crew on board had died, Tagliapietro said: “Yes, yes, yes, yes. 100 percent. My son's boss confirmed that they are all dead.”

Outside the submarine’s home base in Mar del Plata, where family members gathered, a brother of one of the missing sailors was heard screaming, "They killed my brother!" ABC reported.

https://www.rt.com/news/410832-argentine-submarine-crew-dead/

 

[LadyL]

I was fervently hoping but it was not to be.
RIP sailors and sympathy to their families.

 

[Corina]

Very sad news.
Rest in peace, brave sailors.
I'm so sorry for the families in their grief.

 

[Tssiemer]

Now wait a gosh darn minute.

Other sounds have been said to be one thing and then it’s not. How do they know it was the sub?


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[Tssiemer]

Also, I can’t believe the families are giving up like that!


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[silverjug]

That never made any sense -- heat sensed in a freezing cold ocean??

How would you not be killed instantly if one opens the hatch at that depth??

I remember a Russian fescue years ago

That was the Kursk. Russia would not accept help until it was far too late, they spent a lot of time denying there was anything wrong.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

That was the Kursk. Russia would not accept help until it was far too late, they spent a lot of time denying there was anything wrong.

I suspect that the humiliation of Russia as a nation and Putin personally over that incident is at least partly reponsible for Putin's obsession with building Russian power and prestige. The country has become increasingly agressive since then.

 

[Cryptic]

I suspect that the humiliation of Russia as a nation and Putin personally over that incident is at least partly reponsible for Putin's obsession with building Russian power and prestige. The country has become increasingly agressive since then.

Though I think the loss of the Kursk has fueled Putin, I think the main source of the fuel was Kosovo. Serbia has been a Russian ally for centuries. Likewise, even with an Albanian majority, Kosovo was part of Serbia for centuries. Russia strongly objected to breaking Kosovo away from Serbia, yet was powerless to stop it.

I think what made it even worse for Putin is that Russia was grudgingly willing to accept NATO's use of force to stop Serbia's ethnic cleansing campaign and was also willing to accept a Kosovo only loosely tied to Serbia. But.... NATO went for full independence and totally humiliated Putin.

 

[Jax49]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...opelessness-in-submarine-search-idUSKBN1DP0NI

Argentina faces 'hope and hopelessness' in submarine search

Saturday marked the 10th day since the ARA San Juan submarine reported its last position off Argentina’s southern coast. Reports of a sound detected underwater near the last known position of the vessel suggest it might have imploded after reporting an electrical problem.

But citing respect for the families, navy spokesman Enrique Balbi declined to say anything to confirm the now-common belief that the crew had perished.

“We are at a stage of hope and hopelessness at the same time,” Balbi told reporters. “We will not speculate beyond the facts as we know them.”

 

[MsFacetious]

It always amazes me that these things don't have GPS locators... someway to be found immediately if they vanish. We have them on our personal vehicles but not air and water craft. :dunno:

 

[JerseyGirl]

Water entered missing Argentine sub's snorkel, causing short circuit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-snorkel-causing-short-circuit-idUSKBN1DR2B3

 

[Cryptic]

Water entered missing Argentine sub's snorkel, causing short circuit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-snorkel-causing-short-circuit-idUSKBN1DR2B3

Yikes, other submarines have been lost from this malfunction as well.

The snorkel contains a safety mechanism to snap it closed if it begins to draw in water. Another safety mechanism then instantly turns off the diesels if the snorkel is snapped shut. But, both safety mechanisms can malfunction- especially on an older submarine that has not been maintained well.

The result is not only water coming into the submarine, as indicated in the article, but diesel fumes being vented into the submarine as well (snorkels allow the diesels to run while submerged). The running diesels sucking air from inside the boat can also cause a very painful, debilitating suction effect on the crew's ears.

In short, the poor crew was probably struck by salt water coming and shorting the batteries out, most likely causing a fire. Now, there is water, a fire, smoke and quite possibly diesel fumes in a cramped, airtight environment. At the same time, the pressure effect from the diesel on the crew's ears is said to be strong enough to cause some crew members to collapse.

A well trained crew in an otherwise well maintained submarine that had been constantly drilled for such emergencies could still save the submarine. Sadly, the submarine in question was not otherwise well maintained and the Argentine Navy lacked the funds to produce well trained submarine crews (Very expensive, as each submarine needs two crews. One crew trains ashore, while the other crew sails the submarine. They then switch positions).

 

[PrairieWind]

It always amazes me that these things don't have GPS locators... someway to be found immediately if they vanish. We have them on our personal vehicles but not air and water craft. :dunno:

These vessels are intended to be invisible. They usually do have devices however that can be released to provide the subs locations. However, I believe that is something that the crew must initiate themselves, it doesn't happen automatically. Perhaps there simply wasn't time to do it, or it didn't work. It sounds like these Argentine subs were pretty short on maintenance, so probably a few things didn't work.

 

[PrairieWind]

Good analysis, Cryptic. Indeed, I am guessing there was some mechanical failure and that poor training and inexperienced crew didn't allow them to deal with the problem. I am a little confused about the article though. It says that one battery was short circuited, then isolated and the sub was ordered to return, submerged, using the other battery. So, if that article is correct (a big IF, for sure) it sounds like things were stable at that point. I would think the logical action would have been to surface the submarine and proceed to port under diesel power. Why didn't they do that? Second, do we know the water depth in this area? There was lots of speculation that the explosion heard was the submarine imploding. That would imply it had descended below its crush depth. What is this sub's crush depth and how deep is the water in this area? Even if the snorkle had continued to leak water, it should have been something they could have dealt with. Perhaps the explosion was one of the batteries exploding as a result of being flooded with sea water. That would have released poisonous gases into the submarine, leaving little chance for an inexperienced crew to save themselves. Regardless, I think too much time has now passed for there to be any survivors, even if they had just settled on the ocean floor. I'm sure their oxygen has long since run out. Personally, I think they probably all died on the 15th, as a result of whatever that "explosion" was. Very sad. God Bless them and their loved ones.