France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #3

[Hope4More]

ISIS attacks in Paris, Beirut, Iraq, in the past weeks, and about two weeks ago against a Russian airliner in the Sinai are all spectacular attacks against regional countries and international powers under the guise of ISIS’s “Storm” operation.

Snip

Thus, ISIS’s Storm is found in the group’s recent statements that, I believe, were not taken seriously by intelligence officials or analysts of ISIS. This lack of reading and analysis is tragic and cannot be repeated again. Electronic monitoring may not have picked up any traffic regarding potential attacks. It may be that ISIS is using better encrypted messaging platforms or had possibly gone back to the old way of face to face communications. Drone attacks to target ISIS leaders is not going to deter ISIS one iota.

Let’s be clear: the recent release of two ISIS messages to the world show the group’s intent. ISIS’s Russian language “Soon Very Soon” video clearly showed threats to Russia and to Europe:

These are our words
In your major cities
We will corner you.
You won’t be able to escape.
Nor spread your corruption.
You will live a life of humiliation
Only from now on.
In the hereafter,
Hellfire awaits you.

Hellfire is an important word: In connotes the end times, part of ISIS’s horrific apocalyptic outlook. The ISIS claim on the Paris attacks specifically target the UK and other countries in the same violent language including Rome.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vie...8/The-ISIS-Storm-and-policy-implications.html

LMAO. We're supposed to go all wobbly kneed after we hear that sophomoric drivel? Their PR dudes need to watch some more current movies to get the fear factor language right.

Or maybe they should consider learning how to rap it out?

 

[FindHG]

It does seem ISIS wants boots on the ground. Will the air strikes be enough? I hate to think of sending troops in but.......thoughts?

Some thoughts, but who knows if they make any sense. Ultimately, a more secure, lawful and tolerant world works better. Everybody gets that, so destabilizing provocations playing on vulnerabilities of free countries and challenging tolerance requires really smart responses that work. Knowing as much as possible may help, good un-spun information? Daesh is made up of Sunni Baathist and AQ combined functionally with a brand and brutality that works for them, for now, to get new recruits. The groundwork has been laid for that mindset too well and for too long, kind of genie is out of the bottle, and now the Arab nations, Iraq and Iran can't deal with it. The landscape and players in that region don't change much, just progressions of the same dynamics in various groupings, it seems to me, for example on the other side are the Shia revolutionaries of Iran and Shia Baathists, with Putin of the old Soviet school. Baathist are efficient genocidal commies, basically. A lot of people die as a result, people who shouldn't die, but that hasn't been a problem for their leaders for a while, given the history of the past three decades.

 

[Hope4More]

No, no and no IMO

Boots on the ground? Add one more NO!!!

 

[Mindmatters]

Definitely not. I'm not sure why we got involved in Syria in the first place; it wasn't our fight, was it?

That depends on who you ask--research the Iraq vacuum, the "Red Line" debate, The rise of ISIS, and US/Syria relations over the last 5 years, this may answer your question Trident-My advice is to be especially diligent and choose only reliable, valid and vettable sources for your research.

I don't think it is our fight but if I were completely candid I think US Foreign Policy since 2010 significantly contributed to the current problems in Syria and played a part in the rise of Isis.

 

[Trident]

Hi Trident, thanks for the link. Gotta say it is a little disturbing to see that 11%, this is a country founded on the First Amendment, which just so happens to be my favorite amendment.

I’m not sure exactly which part worries you, but I believe it may be:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . .”
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about-the-first-amendment

Not sure if I'm correct or not.

 

[Gigi-G]

Lesson learnt from Saddam era in Iraq. Boots on the ground led to 10 years of expense. Expense in costs. And lost lives of 'our serving hero's'
I don't know how much it costs to make an all singing all dancing laser guided missile. . I'm sure I read somewhere on the 'wonderweb' that to load a Fighter jet for a raid. Runs into hundreds of thousands of €£$. Respectively.
Who decides the price of these things? Who pays for them? Or is it added to the trillion dollar/pound sterling/euro debt we all pay taxes into/for ?

If it's THAT expensive in monetary terms. How the HELL do groups like IS fund all their equipment. And yes I do know alot of it is from selling the OIL rich reserves they hijacked. But I mean.. really? I know I'm a bit slow. Apologies for that but who or what is backing IS?

 

[Trident]

That depends on who you ask--research the Iraq vacuum, the "Red Line" debate, The rise of ISIS, and US/Syria relations over the last 5 years, this may answer your question Trident-My advice is to be especially diligent and choose only reliable, valid and vettable sources for your research.

I don't think it is our fight but if I were completely candid I think US Foreign Policy since 2010 significantly contributed to the current problems in Syria and played a part in the rise of Isis.

I totally agree with your second paragraph, things said and unsaid. I will do some research on the first part, thanks.

 

[Mindmatters]

imo, air strikes will not be enough. I hate to think of sending troops in too but it would be needed to secure certain areas, etc...Isis knows air strikes aren't enough as well. P

I am worried that you are right, but I hope and pray that you are wrong. I don't want our boys' Boots on the ground unless it is absolutely necessary--at this time I say no. But should the situation deterioriate and it becomes necessary, it must be done in a coordinated effort with Allied Nations.

 

[Mindmatters]

I’m not sure exactly which part worries you, but I believe it may be:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . .”
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about-the-first-amendment

Not sure if I'm correct or not.

If you look at the poll, 11% wanted to limit the refugees to "Syrian Refugees that are Christian."

I reject that criteria. We are a nation of religious freedom and of laws, there is no need to turn away any people based on religion as long as they follow the laws of our county.

Ensuring that our policies and our laws are comprehensive, secure, and in the best interests of US citizens, first and foremost, then we can begin the process of accepting refugees--and temp Visa's for that matter.

ETA: Yes, to your response. Sorry I didn't answer intially

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Lesson learnt from Saddam era in Iraq. Boots on the ground led to 10 years of expense. Expense in costs. And lost lives of 'our serving hero's'
I don't know how much it costs to make an all singing all dancing laser guided missile. . I'm sure I read somewhere on the 'wonderweb' that to load a Fighter jet for a raid. Runs into hundreds of thousands of €£$. Respectively.
Who decides the price of these things? Who pays for them? Or is it added to the trillion dollar/pound sterling/euro debt we all pay taxes into/for ?

If it's THAT expensive in monetary terms. How the HELL do groups like IS fund all their equipment. And yes I do know alot of it is from selling the OIL rich reserves they hijacked. But I mean.. really? I know I'm a bit slow. Apologies for that but who or what is backing IS?

I have no doubt that some of their weaponry is US supplied.

 

[Mollyandme]

I am worried that you are right, but I hope and pray that you are wrong. I don't want our boys' Boots on the ground unless it is absolutely necessary--at this time I say no. But should the situation deterioriate and it becomes necessary, it must be done in a coordinated effort with Allied Nations.

Oh I say no right now too! I just meant that air strikes aren't going to be enough, not even close.

 

[Momoffourboys]

LMAO. We're supposed to go all wobbly kneed after we hear that sophomoric drivel? Their PR dudes need to watch some more current movies to get the fear factor language right.

Or maybe they should consider learning how to rap it out?

I find nothing funny about it. To me, pretty disturbing.
But then again....the view of the Freedom Tower is a constant reminder.

 

[Trident]

If you look at the poll, 11% wanted to limit the refugees to "Syrian Refugees that are Christian."

I reject that criteria. We are a nation of religious freedom and of laws, there is no need to turn away any people based on religion as long as they follow the laws of our county.

Ensuring that our policies and our laws are comprehensive, secure, and committed to the safety of US citizens, first and foremost, then we can begin the process of accepting refugees--and temp Visa's for that matter.

BBM. And what happens if they don't obey our laws, if they don't assimilate and create "no go zones?" Do we kick them out? It doesn't seem we can, or we won't, especially since we have "refuge/sanctuary" cities. There are many relevant cases I could name, but I'm too tired right now. I'd also like to delve further into "religion" as a basis for entry or not. Again, too tired right now, but would like to have this conversation another day, it is important and interesting.

Thanks for this post, it brought up things worth exploring further.

:cow:

 

[Mindmatters]

Oh I say no right now too! I just meant that air strikes aren't going to be enough, not even close.

I have to agree Molly. However, I'm really hoping that other countries (with us doing our fair share) will step up and perhaps a coordinated effort on a more global scale will be enough to strangle this organization without any nation having to put too boots on the ground.

 

[Hope4More]

That depends on who you ask--research the Iraq vacuum, the "Red Line" debate, The rise of ISIS, and US/Syria relations over the last 5 years, this may answer your question Trident-My advice is to be especially diligent and choose only reliable, valid and vettable sources for your research.

I don't think it is our fight but if I were completely candid I think US Foreign Policy since 2010 significantly contributed to the current problems in Syria and played a part in the rise of Isis.

2010? Oh dear. Read a few chapters further back in the book of what happened and what wrong.

One could all the way back to the Crusades, skim through centuries and read the part where Western nations after WWII imposed artificial boundaries to create incohesive states in the Middle East, skim again to the 1970's- 1980's and proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan which led us to arming freedom fighters to fight the USSR who would later morph into terrorists more interested in going after the US.....skip a few chapters and read about Iran the anchor state fighting Iraq the other anchor state - enter a Bush....skim skim skim. Kaboom. 9/11. Bush Jr destroying the whole of Iraqi infrastructure and civil institutions and big WHOOPS! pursuing a policy of de-Baathication of the military which WHOOPS set in motion ex- very very bad military leaders displaced from power looking for a way back in, hello the founders of ISIL. Ex- military specializing in such lovelies as psych-ops.


Waterboarding. Torture. Guantanomo.

Centers of power destabilized, power vacuums, civil wars.....many other factors in the past decade fanned the flames, so to speak, but ISIL is not new, just the 3rd generation or so of blowback.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Paris attacks: Is Belgium Europe's favourite gun shop?


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34871872

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Someone sold us a theory that we are the "leader" & we have to save the world, be more noble, be charitable, get involved with wars, all some novel idealism fodder--that's really all it is.

So we keep getting involved & putting our noses where it doesn't belong, fighting with our chins sticking out, getting punched. This theory that we were sold has cost us a lot & will continue to cost us in many ways. Lives lost & billions spent.

And we can't handle our own messes at home yet we must be the world "leader"? Really, says who? Some ivy-league, silver spoon politician or theocrat?

Sometimes the best offense is a good defense. Lay a bit lower. Become more isolationistic & independent. Be a bit more humble & stop with the rhetoric that "we're better than that" & "that's who we are". Ugh!

After all, the propaganda about being a world leader was just somebody's theory -- nothing more. And I for one am done with the big price tag that comes with it. The rose-colored glasses are off.

Boots on the ground? H**l NO!
IMO

 

[Mindmatters]

BBM. And what happens if they don't obey our laws, if they don't assimilate and create "no go zones?" Do we kick them out? It doesn't seem we can, or we won't, especially since we have "refuge/sanctuary" cities. There are many relevant cases I could name, but I'm too tired right now. I'd also like to delve further into "religion" as a basis for entry or not. Again, too tired right now, but would like to have this conversation another day, it is important and interesting.

Thanks for this post, it brought up things worth exploring further.

:cow:

Unquestionably--a valid argument and very real concern, hence my support of stepping back and evaluating the laws before bringing anymore people here. We must "clean up our own house" before we can even begin to entertain inviting any more in.

IU too enjoyed the exchange and look forward to further discourse in the future.

 

[Foxfire]

If you look at the poll, 11% wanted to limit the refugees to "Syrian Refugees that are Christian."

I reject that criteria. We are a nation of religious freedom and of laws, there is no need to turn away any people based on religion as long as they follow the laws of our county.

Ensuring that our policies and our laws are comprehensive, secure, and in the best interests of US citizens, first and foremost, then we can begin the process of accepting refugees--and temp Visa's for that matter.

ETA: Yes, to your response. Sorry I didn't answer intially

This is due to Religious persecution of the Christians..

Persecution of Middle Eastern Christians Deserves ‘Genocide’ Label

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...-minorities-united-states-resettlement-policy

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Someone sold us a theory that we are the "leader" & we have to save the world, be more noble, be charitable, get involved with wars, all some novel idealism fodder--that's really all it is.

So we keep getting involved & putting our noses where it doesn't belong, fighting with our chins sticking out, getting punched. This theory that we were sold has cost us a lot & will continue to cost us in many ways. Lives lost & billions spent.

And we can't handle our own messes at home yet we must be the world "leader"? Really, says who? Some ivy-league, silver spoon politician or theocrat?

Sometimes the best offense is a good defense. Lay a bit lower. Become more isolationistic & independent. Be a bit more humble & stop with the rhetoric that "we're better than that" & "that's who we are". Ugh!

After all, the propaganda about being a world leader was just somebody's theory -- nothing more. And I for one am done with the big price tag that comes with it. The rose-colored glasses are off.

Boots on the ground? H**l NO!
IMO

Yes, this is a lie that's been sold to the American people so they don't rise up against their politicians who have insisted they fight a perpetual war against ?? since WW2. I believe it is profitable on some level, but no, it is not the job of the USA and the so called 'Allies' to save the world, I believe overall we have done very little good, I do not understand why countries like the UK, Canada, and Australia get all breathy whenever they are asked to participate and can't seem to jump in fast enough either. Basically I think we're all being lied to on a major scale, by our own leaders, and they are probably being lied to to whoever feeds them BS .. ad infinitum.