"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #2

[Jolynna]

You will want to marry this post with the words in your earlier post which read: "did willfully and by culpable negligence".

What evidence proves "did willfully and by culpable negligence"?

Enough evidence for a Grand Jury to indict not only on Aggravated Manslaugher, but on Murder One as well. And that was before Caylee's skull was found with 3 layers of duct tape wrapped over half of her face.

The indictment did marry both of my posts.

CASEY MARIE ANTHONY, between the 15th day of June 1008 and the 16th day of July 2008, in said County and State, did willfully and by culpable negligence, while a caregiver to CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY, a child under 18 years of age, did fail or omit to provide CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY with the care, supervision and services necessary to maintain CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY'S physical and mental health or fail to make a reasonable effort to protect CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person, and by doing so brought about the death of CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY.
​

KC, on tape and in writing, admitted failing to make a reasonable effort to protect her daughter or to provide Caylee with care, supervision or services. (I'd say that not letting anyone know Caylee was 'kidnapped' for 31 days is not making a reasonable effort. They've got KC dead to rights on the Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child charge unless KC changes her story, imo.)

 

[Wudge]

Enough evidence for a Grand Jury to indict not only on Aggravated Manslaugher, but on Murder One as well. And that was before Caylee's skull was found with 3 layers of duct tape wrapped over half of her face.

The indictment did marry both of my posts.

CASEY MARIE ANTHONY, between the 15th day of June 1008 and the 16th day of July 2008, in said County and State, did willfully and by culpable negligence, while a caregiver to CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY, a child under 18 years of age, did fail or omit to provide CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY with the care, supervision and services necessary to maintain CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY'S physical and mental health or fail to make a reasonable effort to protect CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person, and by doing so brought about the death of CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY.
​

KC, on tape and in writing, admitted she is guilty of failing to make a reasonable effort to protect her daughter. (I'd say that not letting anyone know Caylee was 'kidnapped' for 31 days would be failing to make a reasonable effort...not that I believe that is the slightest chance in h*** that Caylee was kidnapped. They've got KC dead to rights on aggravated manslaughter of a child, imo.)

The Grand Jury did not find proof beyond a reasonable doubt for any charge.

 

[Jolynna]

The Grand Jury did not find proof beyond a reasonable doubt for any charge.

You are right, they didn't, they said there was enough evidence for Casey to be tried on those charges.

 

[Wudge]

No, they said there was enough evidence for Casey to be tried on those charges.

Correct. Proof was not found.

 

[BeanE]

I think first we need to prove she lied. I know there are charges, but I dont think there is any proof yet. I think we also need a professional to tell us that she is a pathological liar. I am not sure.

Dont think the defense is going to go along with this lying theory that everyone has dreamed up. Its not going to be that easy. The State will have to prove it.

Post of the year

 

[Pattymarie]

Correct. Proof was not found.

Exactly what proof do you need?
Then, in your opinion...she should be set free? Who...then, in your opinion, was responsible for this heinous crime?
If she is found not guilty...in your opinion...how should she return to a normal life?

 

[Jolynna]

Casey is in a catch 22 position.KC's defense to the murder charge is that she committed Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child.

KC says she didn't provide Caylee with care, supervision or services for 31 days. Because she contacted nobody, KC made NO reasonable effort to protect Caylee from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person that resulted in Caylee's death. KC has 'fessed up to it, in writing and on audio.

I can't imagine being in a spot where the best scenario was aggravated manslaughter of a child, plus 4 counts of lying to LE plus all that check stuff. But, that is the corner KC has boxed herself into.

imo

 

[Jolynna]

Exactly what proof do you need?
Then, in your opinion...she should be set free? Who...then, in your opinion, was responsible for this heinous crime?
If she is found not guilty...in your opinion...how should she return to a normal life?

The aggravated manslaughter of a child is based on KC's own testimony about what happened. She had to be charged with that, not notifying anyone that your child is lost, kidnapped, where-abouts unknown for over a month is not making a reasonable effort to care for, protect, provide or supervise.

I think what KC did is so bad that not telling people Caylee had been gone for 31 days was normal behavior in comparison.

jmo

 

[Daylight/1257]

Casey is in a catch 22 position.KC's defense to the murder charge is that she committed Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child.

KC says she didn't provide Caylee with care, supervision or services for 31 days. Because she contacted nobody, KC made NO reasonable effort to protect Caylee from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person that resulted in Caylee's death. KC has 'fessed up to it, in writing and on audio.

I can't imagine being in a spot where the best scenario was aggravated manslaughter of a child, plus 4 counts of lying to LE plus all that check stuff. But, that is the corner KC has boxed herself into.

imo

...and if her parents don't cough up some truth about her situation pretty quickly, they will in all probability be serving lengthy sentences themselves. Poor GA, ex-cop, baby-murder lover. It's going to be rough on him without his diamond earring. :twocents:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I Really hope the Defense goes with that line - it will be such a bad move- the SA could have a line of people who will corroborate the fact that she lies habitually.

Yeah- just to name a few of those people.. her mother, father, brother and grandmother ALL have agreed that she is a habitual liar (and has a thing for stealing from those she "loves")! Lee states her lying began in MIDDLE school (This info can be found on Lee and TonE's LE taped "meeting")

 

[Phumi]

Enough evidence for a Grand Jury to indict not only on Aggravated Manslaugher, but on Murder One as well. And that was before Caylee's skull was found with 3 layers of duct tape wrapped over half of her face.

The indictment did marry both of my posts.

CASEY MARIE ANTHONY, between the 15th day of June 1008 and the 16th day of July 2008, in said County and State, did willfully and by culpable negligence, while a caregiver to CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY, a child under 18 years of age, did fail or omit to provide CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY with the care, supervision and services necessary to maintain CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY'S physical and mental health or fail to make a reasonable effort to protect CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person, and by doing so brought about the death of CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY.
​

KC, on tape and in writing, admitted failing to make a reasonable effort to protect her daughter or to provide Caylee with care, supervision or services. (I'd say that not letting anyone know Caylee was 'kidnapped' for 31 days is not making a reasonable effort. They've got KC dead to rights on the Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child charge unless KC changes her story, imo.)

Thank you, Jolynna, for providing the correct legal information. And nice work!
The argument against you went from "You're wrong about the charges!" to "The Grand Jury didn't find proof beyond a reasonable doubt." LOL!!

 

[Wudge]

Exactly what proof do you need?
Then, in your opinion...she should be set free? Who...then, in your opinion, was responsible for this heinous crime?
If she is found not guilty...in your opinion...how should she return to a normal life?

Rather than speculation -- jurors are not permitted to speculate -- what's needed is highly reliable inculpatory evidence that proves either murder one or aggravated child abuse or manslaughter. Those are the State's three top charges against Casey, which are anything but congruent to a common circumstance of death. In other words, the State is also guessing, which is what takes place when evidence required to prove a particular charge is missing.

 

[Wudge]

Thank you, Jolynna, for providing the correct legal information. And nice work!
The argument against you went from "You're wrong about the charges!" to "The Grand Jury didn't find proof beyond a reasonable doubt." LOL!!

Both were true.

 

[Phumi]

Both were true.

wrong.

 

[Wudge]

wrong.

I'm not wrong. Grand Juries do not find 'guilt', and Caey was not charged under Florida's culpable negligence statute.

Moreover, prosecutors hoping to prove that Casey committed aggravated child abuse by holding that Casey was, allegedy, willfully negligent, works directly against their claim that Casey willfully murdered Caylee. It's not possible for both to be true.

These (prosecutors) are set to argue against themselves --

 

[LambChop]

It's a tough job, but I guess the knuckleheads will have to do it.

 

[notthatsmart]

This is why I'm on the fence. Laugh if you will, but the State will have to prove that Casey lied to police. They have not proven anything. Nothing has come under cross examination. I found the state in the interogation putting words in Casey's mouth. I understand they are allowed to do that. I think the police are even allowed to lie during an interogation. If the police would have been reasonable and let her explain herself during this interogation, then I may lean to the guilty side. That is not what they did. They did not even let her speak. I have also found in other interviews the police constantly interupt the witness while they are giving information. Perhaps if they would listen for a minute, the witness may give us the truth of what happened. These interviewers are very unprofessional. Once you have a witness in a room and you are recording, there should be no interuption. Let the witness speak. It is hard to get an opinion of G or NG under these circumstances. In court they will all have to behave and let the witness speak.

 

[cecybeans]

Putting duct tape on a child's face is aggravated child abuse. Leaving it there until she suffocates is premeditated murder. Don't see where that is a dichotomy at all.

LBK doesn't strike me as nearly the "unusual person" that JB has shown himself to be in court. In fact, most of KC's little "dream team" looks embarrassed when he opens his mouth or they listen to phrases in a motion he wrote.

 

[Wudge]

This is why I'm on the fence. Laugh if you will, but the State will have to prove that Casey lied to police. They have not proven anything. Nothing has come under cross examination. I found the state in the interogation putting words in Casey's mouth. I understand they are allowed to do that. I think the police are even allowed to lie during an interogation. If the police would have been reasonable and let her explain herself during this interogation, then I may lean to the guilty side. That is not what they did. They did not even let her speak. I have also found in other interviews the police constantly interupt the witness while they are giving information. Perhaps if they would listen for a minute, the witness may give us the truth of what happened. These interviewers are very unprofessional. Once you have a witness in a room and you are recording, there should be no interuption. Let the witness speak. It is hard to get an opinion of G or NG under these circumstances. In court they will all have to behave and let the witness speak.

LE is allowed to lie, which causes many wrongful confessions -- as do third degree interrogations by LE.

Those truths aside, Casey didn't confess to murder, and lies to LE (beyond a confession) are not inculpatory evidence.

 

[cecybeans]

This is why I'm on the fence. Laugh if you will, but the State will have to prove that Casey lied to police. They have not proven anything. Nothing has come under cross examination. I found the state in the interogation putting words in Casey's mouth. I understand they are allowed to do that. I think the police are even allowed to lie during an interogation. If the police would have been reasonable and let her explain herself during this interogation, then I may lean to the guilty side. That is not what they did. They did not even let her speak. I have also found in other interviews the police constantly interupt the witness while they are giving information. Perhaps if they would listen for a minute, the witness may give us the truth of what happened. These interviewers are very unprofessional. Once you have a witness in a room and you are recording, there should be no interuption. Let the witness speak. It is hard to get an opinion of G or NG under these circumstances. In court they will all have to behave and let the witness speak.

We only heard the last few minutes in a conversation that lasted hours - from all of the misinformation KC gave LE when they were riding around until 2 am looking for Zanny the night before to the silly stories she spewed about her cellphone and office the next morning at Universal. They also returned to the cop shop and questioned here there. The portion we hear is at the end at Universal when the detectives realized that she was like some wind-up ADD liar and was making up stuff like some impromptu comedian. They had been hearing her talk ad nauseum and it was of no substance and they just didn't want to listen to her for another shift. I agree that more sophisticated interrogators may have gotten something out of her, but these were detectives looking for a missing child and she was leading them in circles and NOTHING she had told them so far checked out in the least, including the fictitious names. Frankly I was surprised they let her drone on as long as they did. Someone that glibly uncooperative is useless - sifting through "mistruths" and "half-truths" is a waste of time and money when you tell LE you are looking for an abducted child. If you are to be taken seriously SOMETHING you tell them needs to be true. Nothing KC said or did was even near the truth - fictitious nannies, fictitious friends, fictitious jobs - it was all useless and the more they sat listening to her the more useless it became in terms of locating Caylee, which was their prime objective.