"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #3

[Wudge]

So as I understand it. Based on this rule brought to us by AZ and the jury instructions. The jury is allowed to consider any lesser degrees of murder should the jury decide that the evidence supports the lesser degree.

So yes to clarify the jury can consider murder two regardless if Casey is charged with it.

So Wudges statement that a jury can not consider murder two is incorrect. They can indeed consider it should the evidence lead them in that direction.

I am glad this is clarified and we can put this to rest knowing the forum has the correct information.

Quote me where I allegedly said that if the charges were amended to include murder two that the jury could not then consider the murder two charge.

 

[impatientredhead]

Net, the jury makes a sentencing recommendation to the trial Judge. However, the sentencing decision rests with the trial Judge.

Completely accurate.
In 99.9% of the cases the judge goes with the jury recommendation but every once in a blue moon the jury will recommend death and they will sentence life. I think I only found one or two cases in Florida where the judge had gone against the recommendation. I would be annoyed as a juror to have a life and death debate with my fellow jurors, go through all that effort and emotional toll of deciding if someone should live or die and then have the judge toss it aside and say that's nice, but we are going to do this instead.

 

[cecybeans]

Oh please- perhaps they could just beat it out of her. This barbaric mentality does not produce results.

Obviously in this case they are not in the business of solving riddles.

Being uncooperative and withholding information in an investigation is different from something being a "riddle". People with information about a crime are not supposed to make LE guess the answer or jump through hoops. That's called obstruction of justice.

 

[marspiter]

Yes if Casey is found not guilty of the actual murder one charge she can not be tried again.

However she does have other charges that will end up putting her away for awhile just not the big one.

Also a jury can select a lesser charge such as second degree or the like.

Then you have the wild card....felony murder. With felony murder it's the same statute as murder one but with the premeditation removed from the elements of the charge. She is charge with Aggrevated Child Abuse which would be the felony conducted for felony murder to take place. She does not need to be charged with Felony Murder for the Prosecution to ask for it. It is also part of the Florida jury instructions.

I hope that answers the question. If one of our legal minds would like to chime in.

The State has not charged Casey with 2nd degree murder. Thus, the jury could not even consider it much less find Casey guilty of that crime.

FWIW

Quote me where I allegedly said that if the charges were amended to include murder two that the jury could not then consider the murder two charge.

Now you are just trying to argue sematics instead of being the bigger person and admiting your wrong.

Thats ok though here is your qoute. You flat out said a jury can not consider murder two. That assesment has been proven wrong. The forum now has the correct information despite your efforts to give inaccurate info.

Once again glad this matter has been settled and the correct info is here for others.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes I have listened several times. I also went back and read it. It was clear to me that she was trying to help them out, but they would not have it. They just kept throwing accusations at her. I would not expect them to take her to the Ritz. I would expect them to continue to ask questions nicely so they can continue to interview her over a couple of weeks. They did not get any information what so ever by doing it in this manner. I can understand it because LE was doing 90 percent of the talking. And may I ask, how does that help to find Little Caylee? Why not just ask questions and listen.

yeah I saw the movie. That is Hollywood, not real life.

They went on a wild goose chase with KC leading - LE did not think of KC's help as a game they were playing. Afterall, it is her daughter who was missing and she was not forthcoming with any useful information. (ie, I dropped my daughter off at SG by these steps between 9AM and 1PM on June 9.) In my previous post I was being facetious because I'm having a hard time gleaning your claim that KC was not treated nicely by LE.

Hollywood does depict situations that go on in the real world that, fortunately, most of us never have to witness in our own lives. That movie depicts what harsh/unfair treatment looks like that man is capable of inflicting upon his fellow man - that was the point I was trying to make.

Just joining in on this friendly debate and inserting a little of my own personality. :crazy:

 

[Cat13067]

Yes, but I would have done it differently. I would be nice about it. I would give her time to answer each and every question. I understand Casey may have had some information that could have helped. It it so sad that they blew it when they started interrogating her in that fashion. Huge mistake on their part. You can ask tough questions in a kind manner.[/Q

Imagine questioning someone all day long, and each question is answered by a lie. Would you agree that anyone would become frustrated with hearing lie after lie after lie? Now imagine Caylee being your grandaughter and you were questioning your daughter over your granddaughter disappearance. Would you say 'Sweetheart, pretty please tell Mommy where Caylee is?
Let's get real! These dectectives deserve a medal in my book.

 

[notthatsmart]

Unfortunately...wrong...that was based on a true story.
Do you happen to know about any of the conversations that transpired during the day? You make it sound as if the one at Universal was the only "interrogation". IMO it was the culmination of a long day of questioning.

Bold one: So was JFK, your point?


Bold two:
Yeah there ya have it, I think all these people were going on very little sleep. I am aware of the other interviews. They were done in a much more professional manner and they learned a lot.

Perhaps they were just tired when they made this mistake. I am surprised that Yuri didn't drill her about the trunk smell.

 

[Wudge]

Now you are just trying to argue sematics instead of being the bigger person and admiting your wrong.

Thats ok though here is your qoute. You flat out said a jury can not consider murder two. That assesment has been proven wrong. The forum now has the correct information despite your efforts to give inaccurate info.

Once again glad this matter has been settled and the correct info is here for others.

The reason you can't quote me is that I never said that if the charges were amended to charge Casey with murder two that the jury could not then consider it.

Moreover, the jury does not decide what instructions they are to receive. Furthermore, the jury can only consider charges they are instructed on.

Still further, all first-degree murder trials do not require the Judge to instruct the jury on: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter.

 

[knt]

Being uncooperative and withholding information in an investigation is different from something being a "riddle". People with information about a crime are not supposed to make LE guess the answer or jump through hoops. That's called obstruction of justice.

Agreed! Besides, why would a mother waste a minute with riddles? What's appalling is Caylee was supposedly in the hands of kidnappers. Every minute that passed could have been the minute they decided to kill her. Every minute could have been another minute she was being sexually, physically, emotionally abused. Every minute could have been one more minute that she was crying, cold, scared, hungry .... Why the h*ll would you waste a precious minute playing games? Only one reason, Caylee was already deceased. Buying time was in KC's favor.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Yes, but I would have done it differently. I would be nice about it. I would give her time to answer each and every question. I understand Casey may have had some information that could have helped. It it so sad that they blew it when they started interrogating her in that fashion. Huge mistake on their part. You can ask tough questions in a kind manner.

Join the Police then, and try to interview sociopaths like Casey in a touchy feely way if you want when a child is missing and see how far it gets you.
Y Melich had already been told by Cindy that Casey was lying about everything, was out of control and needed to be in jail. He was soon to find out what a liar she was first hand. As Mark Klaas says there is NO punishment severe enough for these sadistic bullies like Casey, these murderers of helpless little children. I think they showed saintly restraint in dealing with this woman. She deserves everything that comes her way- she will get it the old fashioned way, she earned it.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Yes I have listened several times. I also went back and read it. It was clear to me that she was trying to help them out, but they would not have it. They just kept throwing accusations at her. I would not expect them to take her to the Ritz. I would expect them to continue to ask questions nicely so they can continue to interview her over a couple of weeks. They did not get any information what so ever by doing it in this manner. I can understand it because LE was doing 90 percent of the talking. And may I ask, how does that help to find Little Caylee? Why not just ask questions and listen.

yeah I saw the movie. That is Hollywood, not real life.

Do you have any knowledge of what the term "the first 48" means? I believe A & E even designed a whole series around the premise.

Interviewing KC "nicely...over a couple of weeks" would not have been beneficial to Caylee in any manner...

But I guess that is why they are LE...and you are not.

 

[impatientredhead]

The reason you can't quote me is that I never said that if the charges were amended to charge Casey with murder two that the jury could not then consider it.

Moreover, the jury does not decide what instructions they are to receive. Furthermore, the jury can only consider charges they are instructed on.

Still further, all first-degree murder trials do not require the Judge to instruct the jury on: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter.

The charges don't have to be amended for them to consider other findings.
In the state of Florida the jury will be instructed to consider the lesser charges. In a death penalty case in the state of Fl the consideration of lesser charges is a given. Casey's rights and the value of her life and all that.....

 

[Kentjbkent]

Yes, but I would have done it differently. I would be nice about it. I would give her time to answer each and every question. I understand Casey may have had some information that could have helped. It it so sad that they blew it when they started interrogating her in that fashion. Huge mistake on their part. You can ask tough questions in a kind manner.

As I recall, CA and GA asked the tough questions in a kind manner, "What have you done?" "Sweetheart, I don't know your involvement..."

And that got them how much closer to any truth????????????

 

[marspiter]

The reason you can't quote me is that I never said that if the charges were amended to charge Casey with murder two that the jury could not then consider it.

Moreover, the jury does not decide what instructions they are to receive. Furthermore, the jury can only consider charges they are instructed on.

Still further, all first-degree murder trials do not require the Judge to instruct the jury on: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter.

The correct info is here with supporting citation and evidence (not opinion) for others to read.

Thank you for your opinions however. Everyone on here has a right to theirs. I don't agree with your opinion in the face of the fact, but I can respect that you have an opinion on the matter.

 

[whiteangora]

Agreed! Besides, why would a mother waste a minute with riddles? What's appalling is Caylee was supposedly in the hands of kidnappers. Every minute that passed could have been the minute they decided to kill her. Every minute could have been another minute she was being sexually, physically, emotionally abused. Every minute could have been one more minute that she was crying, cold, scared, hungry .... Why the h*ll would you waste a precious minute playing games? Only one reason, Caylee was already deceased. Buying time was in KC's favor.

bbm
And she continues buying time to this very minute. I honestly believe she will die clutching on to the truth of how Caylee died.

 

[Wudge]

The charges don't have to be amended for them to consider other findings.
In the state of Florida the jury will be instructed to consider the lesser charges. In a death penalty case in the state of Fl the consideration of lesser charges is a given. Casey's rights and the value of her life and all that.....

All first-degree murder trials do not require the Judge to instruct the jury on: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter.

HTH

 

[cecybeans]

Yes, but I would have done it differently. I would be nice about it. I would give her time to answer each and every question. I understand Casey may have had some information that could have helped. It it so sad that they blew it when they started interrogating her in that fashion. Huge mistake on their part. You can ask tough questions in a kind manner.

I've been thinking about this and it makes no sense whatsoever. We all observed CA in the jailhouse conversations asking tough questions in a kind manner - she and GA were walking on eggshells trying to get her to cooperate, flattering her, buttering her up, making promises she wouldn't have to work.

And the minute CA asked a question KC didn't like or want to answer she shot a snarky, sarcastic remark at her mother or threatened to put the phone down because she suddenly was so angry she couldn't swallow. Come on - it doesn't get any more sugary sweet than that and they got ZIPPO using that tactic. KC played them like she always did. People can say what they want about CA running that house but imo, it was KC and her spiteful little temper that ruled that roost. She treated her parents like an entitled princess treats servants.

 

[cecybeans]

As I recall, CA and GA asked the tough questions in a kind manner, "What have you done?" "Sweetheart, I don't know your involvement..."

And that got them how much closer to any truth????????????

LMAO - we are sharing a brain - only you are more succinct!

 

[whiteangora]

[/b]

Bold one: So was JFK, your point?


Bold two:
Yeah there ya have it, I think all these people were going on very little sleep. I am aware of the other interviews. They were done in a much more professional manner and they learned a lot.

Perhaps they were just tired when they made this mistake. I
am surprised that Yuri didn't drill her about the trunk smell.

bbm
LE did not make any mistakes, this continual bashing of the Prosecution, LE and the Judge is getting monotonous.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Agreed! Besides, why would a mother waste a minute with riddles? What's appalling is Caylee was supposedly in the hands of kidnappers. Every minute that passed could have been the minute they decided to kill her. Every minute could have been another minute she was being sexually, physically, emotionally abused. Every minute could have been one more minute that she was crying, cold, scared, hungry .... Why the h*ll would you waste a precious minute playing games? Only one reason, Caylee was already deceased. Buying time was in KC's favor.

Exactly. She had no sense of urgency. She knew her child was slowly rotting in the woods where she dumped her.