"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #3

[RR0004]

I spent a diplomatically long time on that post. That's all I have....I symbolically say "Uncle"...

It was perfect!

 

[okiedokietoo]

So there hasn't been a specific date set yet for trial?

Thank You. Great segue.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

notthatsmart it is as close to fact as it can get when they mention coffin flies. Coffin flies do NOT consume animal meat, only decomposing human tissue. :banghead:

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we are stuck in that movie "Groundhog Day"? :banghead:

I'm pretty sure that in the entomology report on page 10458 it says

this species can be found on decaying organic matter from other sources.
Depends on how you interpret it, some may think other animals, some may think bacon grease, some may think of plants as having decaying organic matter. Unfortunately the good dr. did not specify what he meant by decaying oraganic matter from other sources.

 

[Friday]

Yes I think that most mothers wrap duct tape around their childrens faces after they die in a tragic accident...some call 911 though.

:rotfl: What a supremely perfect, hilarious way to sum it all up. Caught me completely off guard. Need to stop now and find dishcloth to wipe up mouthful of bottled water before my keyboard is useless. :blowkiss:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Oh please- perhaps they could just beat it out of her. This barbaric mentality does not produce results.

Obviously in this case they are not in the business of solving riddles.

The way you are making it sound to me is as if you think that was what LE was doing to KC - beating it out of her. You keep stating that if only LE had been "nice", they would not have caused KC to shut down and shut up. I don't believe in barbaric tactics and I don't understand why you keep insisting that KC was treated unfairly.

Of course LE is not in the business of solving riddles but it seems that is what KC was expecting them to so - giving them hints of places that the fake nanny may have taken Caylee over the past month along with offering up various false names of people she had told that Caylee was missing to, etc. Of course, KC could never produce a phone number for anyone she mentioned. Nothing she said ever gelled - that is why I said "riddles".

Also I used the word "please" because I know you like it when people are nice. Actually that's a fib, I said "oh please" because I was exasperated by your post. Let's agree to disagree. LE treated KC alright imo. She's the one insulting everyone who's involved imo to include the memory of her tiny daughter, Caylee.

 

[Snaz]

Is it possible that there are some NG sluethers out there that are not posting simply because they do not want to feel the passionate response of the majority? Is it possible that some NG sluethers may feel the response they get to their posts might be disrespectful, and might even feel if they post with passion their NG opinions, they will be met with a barrage of passionate G replies? Is it possible the NG opinions are based on what their opinion of the evidence is, and they choose to leave out the emotionally laden media spin on their findings? Is it possible that some NG posters do not post because they feel their feelings may be hurt if a G poster replies harshly? If any of these questions can be answered yes, then as a group we all lose out on the input these shy posters have. It's a lose lose situation. Polite, respectful posts when replying to others is what has drawn and kept me here in WS. I feel that some posters NG or G might not post because sometimes emotions run high and replies could be a bit more civil. I think we should all think about what we post and reread it before we post because when our emotions get too high we are apt to say something we may regret later. Once we hit submit, it's too late. I would urge anyone lurking out there to come in and join us. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I promise to be respectful and polite.

BBM

I have not posted my opinion in this thread about whether or not I believe KC to be guilty or not guilty. But you are right, the deviledadvocate. Thank you for the nudge. None of us should be afraid to say if we believe KC to be NG.....

I find KC to be GUILTY. And I believe a jury of 12 of KC's peers will do the same.

 

[Harmony 2]

I'm pretty sure that in the entomology report on page 10458 it says

this species can be found on decaying organic matter from other sources.
Depends on how you interpret it, some may think other animals, some may think bacon grease, some may think of plants as having decaying organic matter. Unfortunately the good dr. did not specify what he meant by decaying oraganic matter from other sources.

The fact is Caylee WAS deceased though.

 

[cecybeans]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

You know how scientists are, they have much stricter limits for definition than are necessary - if there is an infinitesimal chance of the adipocere or grave wax found on the paper towels to be animal they would not state anything as positive, even though certainly a reasonable person would deduct it cannot be anything else. There was no other decomposing food found in the trash bag, so it does not follow that suddenly there would be paper towels with decomp on them that relate to food.

Our fascination with all things forensic has led to a "CSI effect" in which people believe that unrealistic certainties must exist when we actually live in a world where reality is defined by mathematical probabilities. (If you've ever hung around physicists, it can be a little squirrelly to have a conversation about it.)

30 years ago, nobody would ever think to question the fact that several people smelled and identified the distinctive odor of human decomp, that cadaver dogs hit on the Pontiac trunk and that state-of-the-art air sample technology produced results that are indicative and probable for human decomp. "Junk science" is a term that has been cooked up by defense lawyers to capitalize on the tiny tiny spaces for improbable or theoretical doubt that exist on all levels of reality and in all scientific disciplines, but doubt based on improbability is not the reasonable doubt that juries must adhere to when deciding guilt.

 

[Just Jayla]

I wonder if this has to do with water submersion, and you just took my brain somewhere (watch out when that happens)....Caylee's body had been scattered, but IIRC, the portion of her body with the shorts appears to have been dragged from the upper portion of her body while there was still soft tissue, and was maybe still in the shorts...Correct me if I am wrong there, and I will go back to the original docs to find out why I thought that...

Anyway, if her torse was submerged but her lower portion was not submerged, due to being dragged away from the "ditch", perhaps water broke down the cotton in her shirt faster than the shorts would have decomposed in the air...

Which could also mean that Caylee had been dismembered by animals when the area was dry and the shorts stayed dry...which would peg the time that Caylee's body was there to before August 18-19th, before Fay.

My brain just let out a little puff of smoke, gotta take a breather...Make any sense?

Correction to my own quote, shorts were found near the skull, per this account:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-02/45125794.pdf

Still following any kind of trail that might help understand the degradation of the cotton fibers in and on Caylee, trying to determine a time she was placed there, which is important to knowing whether KC may be guilty or not (her atty. claims the body was not there until October, which still does not clear her, but raises questions)....I know we have the botanists, but they had very broad timelines, the entomologists were much closer but I'm still sleuthin!!

 

[Trapshooter]

I'm pretty sure that in the entomology report on page 10458 it says

this species can be found on decaying organic matter from other sources.
Depends on how you interpret it, some may think other animals, some may think bacon grease, some may think of plants as having decaying organic matter. Unfortunately the good dr. did not specify what he meant by decaying oraganic matter from other sources.

I found this information just by Googling "coffin flies"......

Coffin flies - Family Phoridae


Coffin flies or scuttle flies, are minute flies that run in a jerky manner and appear to be 'hunchbacked'. They are most active at an exposed body after butyric fermentation has begun and when the corpse is starting to dry. Coffin flies are most common in buried human bodies after one year of burial and they also thrive in above ground mausoleums.

Coffin flies are able to dig their way through cracks in the soil above buried coffins. A coffin fly has been observed to dig to a depth of 0.5 m in four days, and once they have tunnelled down to a body, different individuals can move between the body and the surface quite freely.

They are also capable of completing their entire life cycle beneath the ground, so that several generations can occupy a corpse without coming to the surface. It has been calculated that with 98% survival, one pair of coffin flies in a protected place could produce 55 million flies in 60 days. Even with only 1% survival it would take only 7 months to produce 1 million flies.


While the good doctor did not specify which decaying matter he was referring to, I am assuming it was decaying HUMAN flesh since the butryic matter was found in the trunk of the car.

 

[Kentjbkent]

BBMNotthatsmart, it is not your position that is unpopular here. It is your posts stating that false statements are being made when in fact it is quite the opposite. There is link after link here to lead one to find the answers they seek so they don't state "opinions" as facts. Many facts you claim are false have been proven to be true. It truly is not your position here, and by that I am assuming you mean your opinion of Not Guilty, it is your way of saying "facts" don't exist. Hope this helps.

And to expound on Trapshooters comments, I don't think it is your opinion that KC is not guilty at this point that ires some posters, but the fact that if you would like to debate your opinion that the evidence does not point to KC in your opinion, help us to understand (and even possibly agree with you on some points) by offering LOGICAL explanations. At this point in the case, we are at a point where we are discussing actual evidence/documents that have been released, and are no longer just speculating about what happened since Day 1, based on very little information. We know so much more now.

So perhaps, as an example, you have stated this evening that your reluctance to believe documentation of a dead body being placed in the trunk of the car. If not Caylee, whose body? If the stain did not show HUMAN decomp (in your opinion) how would you explain the smell of decomp that still exists to this day?

The involvement of RK (in your opinion)....IF he was involved in any way other than just finding Caylee's body, how does he tie into the rest of the story to make it a plausible one that we could consider?

It doesn't appear you have one single alternate opinion, but instead are just jumping allover the place debunking everything, but none of your versions link together, kwim?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I am just curious and I will admit that I don't know. Do you know if they did diagnose her as an sociopath? I did hear that the Judge had ordered an examination. It is my understanding that it can only be diagnosed by a professional and that professional has to interview that person.

The other term was pathological liar. Was that diagnosed?
See? this is where I am not that smart.

Ps, I do not have any respect for Mark Klaas what so ever.

Well...based solely on your posts proclaiming Casey's innocence...and based solely on your take of why Casey lied about her missing but DEAD daughter...and based solely on the fact that Klaas has lived with the pain of Polly's death at the hands of a monster that could very possibly be compared to Casey...Well my dear, I'd probably wager that he'd maybe feel the same lack of respect for you! I'm outta here for the night.

Nighty night...Sleep tight...Don't let the bed bugs bite...Chomp Chomp Chomp! :biggrin:

 

[notthatsmart]

Then please provide for me the proof that food was found in the trunk of Casey's car or in the white trash bag. The problem is there was NO food in either place. Therefore it can not be decomp from something else. We also have first hand accounts that the smell coming from the trunk of the car was that of a "dead body". Since they do not specifically say that it was food then I conclude that it was not from food.

This is another reason for my conclusion of NG.

Maggots are the proof that food was in the bag.

Where there are maggots, there is food. Just like where there is smoke there is fire.

There were food containers in the bag (cheese, salami and a tv dinner tray) I would expect the food to be mostly consumed by the maggots after two weeks in the trunk. The bag had also been contaminated in another dumpster for several hours. In Henry Lee's own words. A contaminated sample is just that, a contaminated sample.

The smell in the trunk came from a decompositional event. That being food. Since we had food containers and we did not have a human body, I have to assume the smell came from decomposing food. This is just my opinion upon reading the docs.

 

[ynotdivein]

Correction to my own quote, shorts were found near the skull, per this account:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-02/45125794.pdf

Still following any kind of trail that might help understand the degradation of the cotton fibers in and on Caylee, trying to determine a time she was placed there, which is important to knowing whether KC may be guilty or not (her atty. claims the body was not there until October, which still does not clear her, but raises questions)....I know we have the botanists, but they had very broad timelines, the entomologists were much closer but I'm still sleuthin!!

With you there. I still have not been able to locate a topo map of the swampy space where the remains were found. Rising and falling water levels would impact final location of remains and possibly different amounts of water decay affecting various items. Keep sleuthin', JJ, and I will too. :blowkiss:

 

[Kentjbkent]

BBM

I have not posted my opinion in this thread about whether or not I believe KC to be guilty or not guilty. But you are right, the deviledadvocate. Thank you for the nudge. None of us should be afraid to say if we believe KC to be NG.....

I find KC to be GUILTY. And I believe a jury of 12 of KC's peers will do the same.

I, too, would be very interested in participating in this thread with someone(s) who believe that KC is NG, although my attention will be held much longer if their thoughts are logical :waitasec: and all evidence released to date "fits" into a possible theory of anyone being responsible for this crime, sans KC.

In other words, something more than "I don't believe there was human decomp in the trunk of the car, but cannot explain the 31 days, duct tape, nanny lie, etc....."

 

[TorisMom003]

This is another reason for my conclusion of NG.

Maggots are the proof that food was in the bag.

Where there are maggots, there is food. Just like where there is smoke there is fire.

There were food containers in the bag (cheese, salami and a tv dinner tray) I would expect the food to be mostly consumed by the maggots after two weeks in the trunk. The bag had also been contaminated in another dumpster for several hours. In Henry Lee's own words. A contaminated sample is just that, a contaminated sample.

The smell in the trunk came from a decompositional event. That being food. Since we had food containers and we did not have a human body, I have to assume the smell came from decomposing food. This is just my opinion upon reading the docs.

I have to disagree with you about the smell in the trunk. We have George (ex-LE that had worked at least one homicide) stating that the smell was that of HUMAN decomp. We have Cindy (self proclaimed nurse that knows what human decomp smells like) stating that the smell was that of a dead body. We have the impound yard employee (had smelled human decomp from a car before this incident) stating that the smell was that of the same smell he had smelled before when a car had been brought in that had deomposing bodies in the car (before brought to impound lot of course). That is three different first hand accounts that the smell was NOT that of food rotting, it was human decomp.

 

[notthatsmart]

Well...based solely on your posts proclaiming Casey's innocence...and based solely on your take of why Casey lied about her missing but DEAD daughter...and based solely on the fact that Klaas has lived with the pain of Polly's death at the hands of a monster that could very possibly be compared to Casey...Well my dear, I'd probably wager that he'd maybe feel the same lack of respect for you! I'm outta here for the night.

Nighty night...Sleep tight...Don't let the bed bugs bite...Chomp Chomp Chomp! :biggrin:

I never proclaimed Casey was innocent.
I never said Casey lied.
I did say I have no respect for Mark Klass. I could care less if he has respect for me.

This thread was titled G or NG. The title didn't include innocent did it?

 

[Trapshooter]

NTS please explain why you have "no respect whatsoever" for Mark Klaas?

 

[notthatsmart]

I have to disagree with you about the smell in the trunk. We have George (ex-LE that had worked at least one homicide) stating that the smell was that of HUMAN decomp. We have Cindy (self proclaimed nurse that knows what human decomp smells like) stating that the smell was that of a dead body. We have the impound yard employee (had smelled human decomp from a car before this incident) stating that the smell was that of the same smell he had smelled before when a car had been brought in that had deomposing bodies in the car (before brought to impound lot of course). That is three different first hand accounts that the smell was NOT that of food rotting, it was human decomp.

Thank you for disagreeing. I respect that. I guess we will have to get these folks on the stand ask them how they know that.

Ps, I really dont believe there is a human nose human decomp expert out there. Just my opinion.

 

[Kentjbkent]

This is another reason for my conclusion of NG.

Maggots are the proof that food was in the bag.

Where there are maggots, there is food. Just like where there is smoke there is fire.

There were food containers in the bag (cheese, salami and a tv dinner tray) I would expect the food to be mostly consumed by the maggots after two weeks in the trunk. The bag had also been contaminated in another dumpster for several hours. In Henry Lee's own words. A contaminated sample is just that, a contaminated sample.

The smell in the trunk came from a decompositional event. That being food. Since we had food containers and we did not have a human body, I have to assume the smell came from decomposing food. This is just my opinion upon reading the docs.

Here we go again....can you direct me to the link of the document that states that "the smell in the trunk came from a decompositional event, that being food."